Hi, Tommy here. Last I posted was a completely-uncalled-for diatribe against Jim Morrison for which I'm deeply sorry. I don't know what came over me that day. I hope you've all forgiven me.

In lieu of any current goings'-on, I propose a project.

You know how Black & Blue has the printout from the tape boxes with the exact listing of who played what on what track, whether it was an overdub, etc.? Some Girls has a prose version of the same completist "who played what and was it an overdub or not" ethos to it on its back cover.

WHAT I WOULDN'T GIVE TO HAVE BEGGAR'S BANQUET TRACK-BY-TRACK CREDITS!

Since I bought my first vinyl copy in 1981 I've always wondered who played what. I love Keno, I love his site, but I just don't quite trust his musician credits all the time. Mathijs, Gazza, Stonesrule, (esteemed others and I apologize for forgeting any other experts), I implore you. Help us all establish ONCE & FOR ALL who played what on every track of Beggar's and even as importantly (to me, and maybe I have too much time on my hands...) whether it was an overdub or not.

Here's my hypotheses,and I may miss some instruments because, ironically, I don't have a copy of Beggar's in the house right now. It's not in the car and not on the shelf but I have CDs everywhere so God knows where it is. Nevertheless, I've been listening to it for 26 years and I can pretty much hear it in my head. So here's what I propose. I'll list the tracks below and you are all free to copy-paste it, and amend it and amend it until we can all have a consensus, for history's sake (and who's gonna do it if we don't?) of the track-by-track credits of Beggar's Banquet. I've always been alive with curiosity: who played the slide bits? who played the mellotron? what ELSE is dave mason on besides Street Fighting Man? Is Ry Cooder on Prodigal Son? Etc.

So here's the tracks with what I think. Please add tracks I'm unintentionally omitting in this list and please help realize my dream of knowing exactly who played what. (O/D means Overdub, otherwise the implication is the instrument was played live on the basic track.)

SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL:
Keith: bass
Charlie: Drums
Rocky Dijon: Congas
Bill: Shaker
Nicky Hopkins: Piano
Mick: O/D lead vocal
Keith, Brian, Bill Charlie, Marianne Faithful & Anita Pallenberg: O/D backing vocals
Keith: O/D lead guitar.

NO EXPECTATIONS:
Keith: acoustic guitar
Brian: acoustic slide guitar (O/D?)
Bill: bass
Charlie: drums
Nicky: Piano
Mick: vocal (O/D?)

DEAR DOCTOR:
Keith: acoustic guitar
?: acoustic guitar (Keith O/D?)
Bill: bass
Charlie: drums
Mick: vocal (O/D?)
Keith: harmony vocal (O/D?)
?: harmonica (Mick O/D?)

PARACHUTE WOMAN:
Keith: acoustic guitar
Mick: vocal (O/D/)
Bill: bass
Charlie: drums
Mick: harmonica (O/D possibly while doing lead vocal?)
Keith: electric guitar (O/D)

JIGSAW PUZZLE:
Keith: Electric slide guitar
Mick: vocal (O/D)
Keith?: bass (O/D?)
Charlie: drums
Keith: acoustic guitar (O/D)
High, flute-sounding instrument. Moog? Mellotron?: who played it and what is it?

STREET FIGHTING MAN:
Keith: acoustic guitar into cassette mic.
Charlie: practice kit.
Chalie: drums (O/D)
Mick: vocal (O/D)
Keith: bass
Keith: multiple acousitc O/Ds into cassette mic.
Nicky: Piano (O/D)
Dave Mason: sheani(sp?) (O/D)

PRODIGAL SON:
Keith: acoustic guitar in open E.
?: second acoustic guitar.
Mick: vocal (live?)
Bill: bass
Charlie: drums
Mick?: Harmonica (O/D?)

STRAY CAT BLUES:
Keith: Electric Guitar plus multiple electric O/Ds)
Mick: vocal (O/D)
Bill: bass
Charlie: drums
?: mellotron?

FACTORY GIRL:
Keith: acoustic guitar
Rocky Dijon?: congas
Charlie: drums
Bill: bass
Byron Berline?: fiddle
Ry Cooder?: mandolin
Mick: vocal

SALT OF THE EARTH:
Keith: acoustic guitar
Bill: bass
Charlie: drums
Nicky: piano
Keith: vocal (O/D)
Mick: vocal (O/D)
Keith: Electric slide guitar (O/D)
Who is the choir?: (O/D)

Thanks in advance for all your efforts to help nail down who played what on such a great album.

Tommy

Yeah, the fiddle on Factory girl was played by Byron Berline. He recorded it on the street when a car came along. Thy left the car's horn on the recording.

According to Bill Wyman the choir on Salt of the earth are black gospel singers from Watts which is a quarter of Los Angeles.

>> He recorded it on the street when a car came along. They left the car's horn on the recording. <<

that's Country Honk.
timeisonourside.com has Rik Grech for the violins on Factory Girl.
that site isn't infallible of course, but it's worth checking out for this kind of thing: [www.timeisonourside.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-17 09:54 by with sssoul.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> He recorded it on the street when a car came
> along. They left the car's horn on the recording.
> <<
>
> that's Country Honk.
> timeisonourside.com has Rik Grech for the violins
> on Factory Girl.
> that site isn't infallible of course, but it's
> worth checking out for this kind of thing:
> [www.timeisonourside.com]

You don't miss an F'n trick, do you?

LoFL: oh, was that a trick?! pardon :E
i miss miles of f'n tricks - i just keep good sites bookmarked for reference

meanwhile, i trust His Majesty will check in on this thread - it's right up his expert alley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-17 10:15 by with sssoul.

Expert? No! - Very interested? Yes!

The problem is there isn' anyway to say for certain what everything is, if only they'd done a Let It Bleed and told us.

Below is IMO!

Anyway, Brian plays the Mellotron on Jigsaw Puzzle using the flute sound with lots of EMT plate reverb. Jimmy Miller mentions Brian playing flutes during the Alexis Korner radio documentary. The only flutes heard are on JP and they are most definitely from a Mellotron.

Factory Girl also features Mellotron, the mandolin sound. Who plays it? Well Keith said in a 1989 BB special that Nicky Hopkins suggested the fiddle part. Nicky has played mellotron on sessions for other bands so it could possibly be him.

Dave Mason always seems to get the credit for that mandolin part though. He loved the mellotron playing it on lots of Traffic songs. He was producing Family's debut at Olympic Studios(he plays mellotron on that too) at the same time as The Rolling Stones were recording Beggars Banquet.

The harmonica stuff is pretty much open territory imo. But I believe Brian played the main harmonica on Parachute Woman with Mick overdubbing the wailing part at the end. Brian most likely plays the distant harmonica heard on Prodigal Son.

Dear Doctor is a tough one as the style is very similar to Dave Mason's harmonica playing on Traffic's 1968 album. Dave Mason gets credited with playing acoustic by Bill which at least clarifies he was present for the session, but I only hear one, so perhaps Bill's memories have given him a guitar instead of a harmonica!?

Don't forget Brian playing sitar and tamboura on SFM.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-17 13:24 by His Majesty.

The only problem is that Dave Mason said (interview posted here on IORR earlier) he didn't participate in the BB-sessions

To His Majesty,

hi,
I see your'e very busy these days. Just read your newest posts on the LPF.
Hope to see some good photos from "we sell g... " there soon.

Always look at Nico Zentgrafs website.
But some further considerations: Jimmy Miller & Traffic? Flutes were played by Chris Wood. If it's a natural one, why not him? There are so many guitars in at least Stray Cat Blues and as the band used to record as a band they sure had two guitars - guitarist Dave Mason only in Street Fighting Man with some obscure Indian instrument?
Why Ry Cooder only on mandolins (Factory Girl, Love In Vain) or acoustic guitar (Sister Morphine)?
I have in mind that Keith once said something like Mick started playing guitar around Beggars. He sure composed on guitar even before, so it actually might mean playing it in the studio. Mick plays guitar in Performance, a year later he would write Brown Sugar. Why not him?

I would have it something like this...

SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL:
Keith: bass
Charlie: Drums
Rocky Dijon: Congas
Bill: Shaker
Nicky Hopkins: Piano
Mick: (O/D) lead vocal
Keith: (O/D) lead guitar.
Jimmy Miller: (O/D) maracas
Keith, Brian, Bill, Charlie, Michael Cooper, Marianne Faithful & Anita Pallenberg: (O/D) backing vocals* (Their talking can be heard at the start).

* - Mick, Keith and Jimmy Miller possibly re-did/overdubbed over this at Sunset Sound.


NO EXPECTATIONS:
Mick: vocal
Keith: acoustic guitar
Brian: acoustic slide guitar
Bill: bass
Charlie: claves
Nicky: Piano
Ian Stewart: organ/Nicky Hopkins: (O/D) organ


DEAR DOCTOR:
Keith: acoustic guitar
Dave Mason/Brian Jones?: harmonica
Bill: bass
Charlie: percussion
Nicky Hopkins: tack piano
Mick: (O/D) vocal
Keith: (O/D) harmony vocal


PARACHUTE WOMAN:
Keith: acoustic guitar*
Charlie: drums*
Brian Jones: (O/D) harmonica
Bill: (O/D) bass
Charlie: (O/D) drums
Mick: (O/D) vocal
Mick: (O/D) harmonica
Keith: (O/D) acoustic guitar
Keith: (O/D) electric guitar

* basic track recorded in to Philips cassette recorder

JIGSAW PUZZLE:
Keith: Electric slide guitar
Bill Wyman: bass
Charlie: drums
Mick: (O/D) vocal
Keith: (O/D) acoustic guitar
Brian Jones: (O/D) mellotron

STREET FIGHTING MAN:
Keith: acoustic guitar*
Charlie: practice kit*
Brian Jones: (O/D) sitar
Chalie: (O/D) drums
Mick: (O/D) vocal
Keith: (O/D) acoustic guitars
Keith: (O/D) bass
Nicky: Piano (O/D)
Brian: (O/D) tamboura
Dave Mason: (O/D) shehnai

* basic track recorded in to Philips cassette recorder

PRODIGAL SON:
Mick: vocal
Keith: acoustic guitar
Brian: harmonica
Charlie: drums
Keith Richard: (O/D) acoustic guitar


STRAY CAT BLUES:
Keith: electric guitar
Bill: bass
Charlie: drums
Nicky Hopkins: piano
Brian: mellotron
Mick: vocal (O/D)
Keith: (O/D) lead guitars


FACTORY GIRL:
Keith: acoustic guitar
Charlie: tablas(struck with drum sticks)
Bill: bass
Rick Gretch: (O/D) violin/fiddle
Dave Mason/Nicky Hopkins?: mellotron
Mick: (O/D) vocal

SALT OF THE EARTH:
Keith: acoustic guitar
Bill: bass
Charlie: drums
Nicky: piano
Keith: (O/D) vocal
Mick: (O/D) vocal
Keith: Electric slide guitar (O/D)
the Los Angeles Watts Street Gospel Choir: (O/D) vocals



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-17 14:32 by His Majesty.

JJHMick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Always look at Nico Zentgrafs website.
> But some further considerations: Jimmy Miller &
> Traffic? Flutes were played by Chris Wood. If it's
> a natural one, why not him? There are so many
> guitars in at least Stray Cat Blues and as the
> band used to record as a band they sure had two
> guitars - guitarist Dave Mason only in Street
> Fighting Man with some obscure Indian instrument?
>
> Why Ry Cooder only on mandolins (Factory Girl,
> Love In Vain) or acoustic guitar (Sister
> Morphine)?
> I have in mind that Keith once said something
> like Mick started playing guitar around Beggars.
> He sure composed on guitar even before, so it
> actually might mean playing it in the studio. Mick
> plays guitar in Performance, a year later he would
> write Brown Sugar. Why not him?

Mick tended to sing and sometimes play acoustic guitar along during basic takes of his songs, but none of his guitar work is on the finished album. They were meant as guides only.

The flute sound is definitely from a mellotron as is the mandolin sound on FG.

All the electric guitars are so very Keith in style. There's no evidence to suggest anyone else plays those riffs and lead lines.

DandelionPowderman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only problem is that Dave Mason said
> (interview posted here on IORR earlier) he didn't
> participate in the BB-sessions

Do you have a link?

<DandelionPowderman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only problem is that Dave Mason said
> (interview posted here on IORR earlier) he didn't
> participate in the BB-sessions

Do you have a link?>

Sorry, that was Steve Winwood... www.winwoodfans.com

MOJO 166



ROCKMAN

I love that last Sentence, Rockman, about dropping out of the Set list for seven years...they played only a week later in London, at the Saville and Lyceum gigs in December 1969, and then at every gig on the 70 Euro tour....

JR

I'm no expert, so this thread isn't aimed at me!

I do have a Martin Elliott book called "The Rolling Stones complete recording sessions" with information about musical and production personnel, up to 1989. I'm aware that putting something in print doesn't make it true , but here are a few extracts to add to the debate:

No Expectations - Jimmy Miller and Glyn Johns were later to hint that Brian Jones contributed certain guitar passages on Beggars Banquet and it is certain that this is one.

Prodigal Son - Ry Cooder helped to create the blues flavour... Brian Jones was conspicuously absent...

Factory Girl - The fiddle was Nicky Hopkin's idea and was encouraged by Jimmy Miller.

It's interesting that I thought the book had much more information about who played what - until I got it off the shelf and looked.

To my knowledge Ry Cooder has never talked about playing with the stones during the BB era and neither have any of the stones talked of Ry playing with them during the BB sessions, only of the later involvement with Performance and the rather controversial time he spent with them during spring 1969.

Both acoustics on Prodigal Son are so similar that they could, imo, only be by the same player, ie Keith! There also seems to be a view that as Ry is credited with mandolin on Love in Vain, he must have played mandolin on Factory Girl nearly a whole year earlier as well. :/

The fact that it's a year earlier and also that the mandolin on Factory Girl is a mellotron kind of blows that theory out the window!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-17 18:10 by His Majesty.

So many questions to ask my Dermatologist as he and Ry Cooder are best friends since high school.

stone-relics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love that last Sentence, Rockman, about dropping
> out of the Set list for seven years...they played
> only a week later in London, at the Saville and
> Lyceum gigs in December 1969, and then at every
> gig on the 70 Euro tour....


....and in Newcastle 1971 as well!

Rockman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------




How is this song inspired by "Blow Up"?

so interesting to see it laid out this way... brian in fact plays on nearly every song, and something memorable to boot.

a straight drum kit doesn't really appear until "JP," and only on 2 songs thereafter. this after the percussion extravaganza on the first cut.

for the discussion, here's John Moores's post on this topic from alt.rock-n-roll.stones from late 2002. he made a similar attempt for all tracks from the brian era. you can search for them on Google Groups. note that the thread I'm quoting from long pre-dates His Majesty's astounding research with the mellotron, not to mention his "conquering" of the late 60s Vox product line! and I believe John is a non-musician. it would be nice if he resurfaced, though...

BEGGARS BANQUET (LP)
Released December 6, 1968

SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL (Jagger, Richard)*
Rec: June 4-10, 1968.**
M. Jagger: Lead / Backing Vocals, Hand-Drum.
K. Richard: Lead Guitar, Bass, Backing Vocals.
B. Jones: Acoustic Guitar, Backing Vocals.
B. Wyman: Maracas, Cabasa, Backing Vocals.***
C. Watts: Drums, Backing Vocals.
Nicky Hopkins: Piano.****
Rocky Dijon: Congas, Cowbell (?).
Jimmy Miller: Cowbell (?).
Marianne Faithfull, Anita Pallenberg*****, Glyn Johns (?), Nicky
Hopkins: Backing Vocals.

*The working title was 'The Devil Is My Name'.
**Recorded on one of the days was a jam, possibly known as LADY or
'London Jam', featuring Watts on tabla and Wyman on acoustic guitar.
LADY may be something else, recorded on May 13 - 21, 1968.
***Wyman played bass on the early takes.
****Hopkins played organ on early takes.
*****Sometimes misidentfied as Suki Poitier, Brian's girlfriend at the
time.

NO EXPECTATIONS (Jagger, Richard)
Rec: May 13 - 21, June 4 - 10, 1968.*
M. Jagger: Lead Vocal.
K. Richard: Acoustic Guitar.
B. Jones: Acoustic Slide Guitar.
B. Wyman: Bass.
C. Watts: Claves.
I. Stewart: Organ.
Nicky Hopkins: Piano.

*An alternate take is found on bootleg.

DEAR DOCTOR (Jagger, Richard)
Rec: May 13 -21, 1968.*
M. Jagger: Lead and Harmony Vocals.
K. Richard: Vocal and Acoustic Guitars.
B.Jones: Harmonica.
B. Wyman: Bass.
C. Watts: Cymbal, Tambourine.
Nicky Hopkins: 'Barrelhouse' Piano.

*An alternate take, Take One, is found on vocals. It features a single
Jagger vocal, rather than the Jagger / Richard duet found on the LP.

PARACHUTE WOMAN (Jagger, Richard)
Rec: March 17 - Apr. 1, June 30 and July 1968.
M. Jagger: Lead Vocals and Harmonica.
K. Richard: Acoustic Guitar, Slide Guitar (?).
B. Jones: Slide Guitar (?).
B. Wyman: Bass.
C. Watts: Drums.
Dave Mason: Lead Guitar.

JIGSAW PUZZLE (Jagger, Richard)
Rec: March 17 - Apr. 1, June 30 and July 1968.
M. Jagger: Lead Vocal, Acoustic Guitar (?)*.
K. Richard: Slide Guitar, Acoustic Guitar (?)*.
B. Jones: Flute.
B. Wyman: Bass.
C. Watts: Drums.
Nicky Hopkins: Piano.

*Reportedly Jagger made his debut on acoustic guitar on this LP; this
seems to be the most likely suspect, but Keith is an even likelier
suspect still. In the spirit of hedging my bets, I've mentioned Jagger
on guitar here. I think it's Keith though.

STREET FIGHTING MAN (Jagger, Richard)*
Rec: Feb. - Mar, Mar. 17 - Apr. 1, May 13 - 21, June 30 - July 1968**.
M. Jagger: Lead and Harmony Vocals.
K. Richard: Acoustic Guitars, Bass, Backing Vocals.
B. Jones: Tamboura.
C. Watts: Drums.
Nicky Hopkins: Piano.
Jimmy Miller: Claves, Tambourine.
Dave Mason: Shehnai.

*Originally known as 'Primo Grande', then announced as a single under
the title DID EVERYBODY PAY THEIR DUES? (aka PAY YOUR DUES) - see
entry below.
**An alternate mix was pressed as the US single, then recalled
swiftly.

PRODIGAL SON (Rev. Robert Wilkins)
Rec: May 13 -21, June 24 1968.
M. Jagger: Lead Vocal, Harmonica (?).
K. Richard: Aocustic Guitar.
B. Jones: Harmonica(?).
C. Watts: Drum, Cymbal.
Ry Cooder: Acoustic Guitar.

STRAY CAT BLUES (Jagger, Richard)
Rec: Apr. 3, May 13 - 21, 1968.
M. Jagger: Lead Vocals*.
K. Richard: Lead and Rhythm Guitars.
B. Jones: Mellotron.
B. Wyman: Bass.
C. Watts: Drums.
Nicky Hopkins: Piano.
Rocky Dijon: Congas.

*An alternate mix exists on bootleg, with extra vocals at the end.

FACTORY GIRL (Jagger, Richard)
Rec: May 13 - 21, 1968.
M. Jagger: Lead Vocal.
K. Richard: Acoustic Guitars.
B. Wyman: Bass.
C. Watts: Bongos.
Dave Mason: Mandolin.
Ric Gretch: Fiddle.

SALT OF THE EARTH (Jagger, Richard)*
Rec: May 9 - 10, 13 - 21, June 30 and July 1968.
M. Jagger: Lead Vocal.
K. Richard: Lead Vocal and Acoustic Guitar.
B. Jones: Slide Guitar.
B. Wyman: Bass.
C. Watts: Drums.
Nicky Hopkins: Piano.
plus uncredited backing singers "from Watts".

*The working title of this song was 'Silver Blanket'.

OTHER SONGS RECORDED DURING THESE SESSIONS:

JUMPIN' JACK FLASH (Jagger, Richard)*
Rec: March 17- Apr. 1, Apr. 20, Apr. 27**, 1968.
Rel: May 24, 1968 (UK 45).
M. Jagger: Lead and Backing Vocals***, Harmonica.
K. Richard: Lead Guitar, Bass, Backing Vocals.
B. Jones: Rhythm Guitar, Maracas.
B. Wyman: Organ. ****.
C. Watts: Drums.
Nicky Hopkins: Piano (?).

*The working title of this song was 'Title 5'. Bill Wyman actually
came up with the riff. (See below).
**A different, faster version was recorded on Apr. 27 for the promo
video.
***A take featuring just the rhythm track and backing vocals exists on
bootleg.
****Keith definitely plays bass on 'Flash'. Wyman wrote the riff on
electric piano, and states in his new book that he's the organ on the
track....

CHILD OF THE MOON (Jagger, Richard)
Rec: March 17 - Apr. 1, 1968.*
Rel: May 24, 1968 (UK B-Side)**.
M. Jagger: Lead and Backing Vocals.
K. Richard: Lead and Rhythm Guitars, Backing Vocals.
B. Jones: Saxophones.
B. Wyman: Bass.
C. Watts: Drums.
Nicky Hopkins: Piano, Organ.

*An alternate, acoustic version of CHILD OF THE MOON was recorded
during these sessions, featuring a country style piano from Nicky
Hopkins. It remains unreleased and unbooted. A take sans the lead
vocal has been booted though.
**Jones actually wanted this song as the A-Side of the single.

DID EVERYBODY PAY THEIR DUES? (Jagger, Richard)
Rec: Feb / Mar., Mar. 17 - Apr. 1, Apr. 3, 1968.*
Rel: Bootleg only.
M. Jagger: Lead and Backing Vocals.
K. Richard: Acoustic Guitars, Bass, Backing Vocals.
B. Jones: Tamboura.
C. Watts: Drums.
Nicky Hopkins: Piano.
Jimmy Miller: Tambourine, Claves.
Ric Gretch: Electric Violin.
Dave Mason: Shehnai.
Roger Chapman, Jim King**: Backing Vocals.

*After which it became STREET FIGHTING MAN and the lyrics and mix were
changed. Whilst it was still 'Primo Grande' it was subject to a
runthrough at Keith' shouse, Redlands, in February or March 1968,
along with informal stabs at ROCK ME, BABY and HOLD ON, I'M COMING.
**From the band Family. No relation to...

FAMILY (Jagger, Richard)
Rec: May 13 - 21, June 28 ,1968*.
Rel: June 6, 1975 (LP, METAMORPHOSIS)
M. Jagger: Vocal, Maracas, Tambourine (?).
K. Richard: Acoustic and Electric Guitar.
B. Jones: Acoustic Guitar.
B. Wyman: Bass.
C. Watts: Drums.
Nicky Hopkins: Piano.
Jimmy Miller: Tambourine (?).

**An electric take of FAMILY was also run through during these
sessions. At the June sessions, three cuts were laid down about which
nothing is known: 'Too Far To Walk', 'Power Cut' and 'Thief for the
Blues' - were they rhythm tracks, working titles or finished songs?

DOWNTOWN SUZIE (Wyman)*
Rec: May 13 - 21, 1968, Apr. 23, 1969.
Rel: June 6, 1975 (LP, METAMORPHOSIS)**
M. Jagger: Lead and Backing Vocals.*, Bongos (?), Handclaps.
K. Richard: Acoustic Guitar, Backing Vocals, Handclaps (?).
B. Jones: Slide Guitar.
B. Wyman: Bass, Backing Vocals (?), Handclaps.(?).
C. Watts: Drums, Handclaps (?).
Rocky Dijon: Bongos (?).

*Sometimes known as 'Downtown Lucy' or 'Sweet Lucy'.
**Wyman pulled it off Beggars Banquet himself because he didn't feel
it met the standard of the LP!
***Wyman told me in 2000 that Jagger 'took the mickey' out of [mocked]
Wyman's singing, therefore Jagger sang it himself. Wyman also noted
that Jagger mocked the song too!

TWO TRAINS RUNNING (STILL A FOOL) (Morganfield)
Rec: May 13 - 21, 1968.*
Rel: Bootleg only.**
M. Jagger: Lead Vocal and Harmonica.
K. Richard: Guitar.
B. Jones: Slide Guitar.
B. Wyman: Bass.
C. Watts: Drums.
I. Stewart: Piano.
*Also recorded at these sessions were the elusive LADY and the soulful
STUCK OUT ALL ALONE (aka Hamburger To Go), which has been booted, plus
the fantastic BLOOD RED WINE, a brooding acoustic ballad which,
despite being a little out of tune at the beginning, easily rates,
like TWO TRAINS RUNNING, among the very best unreleased Stones songs.
One of the lyrical themes were re-used for WINTER.
**A ten minute blues, this is absolutely fantastic.

Also recorded in May, 1968 were early takes of SISTER MORPHINE and
LOVE IN VAIN.

"Prodigal Son" the only "BB" track on which Ry Cooder is thought to have played?

Since he was credited with mandolin on the "LIB" "Love In Vain," wouldn't it stand to reason that the performance on "Factory Girl" is him on an actual mandolin, rather than a Paleolithic synth like the Mellotron? I'm just having a hard time believing that they would choose to synthesize that part or that it could sound so convincing...

I remember that he's on "Sister Morphine," but not sure in what capacity. Nothing on "Exile," but also the "Honky Tonk Women" single?

But the fact that the '68 "BB" sessions yielded so many songs and recordings that were threaded out among the "big four" albums, just makes "Beggar's" stand even taller in my mind--what an incredible creative outburst.

great work....

the innersleve on "let it bleed" is an good info,,who's plays what ,,

From Nico Zentgraf, The Complete Works. [www.nzentgraf.de]

Line-up ‘Sympathy For The Devil’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bass, bvoc)/BJ (bvoc)/BW
(maracas, bvoc)/CW (dr, bvoc)/Nicky Hopkins (p, bvoc)/Anita Pallenberg
(bvoc)/Marianne Faithfull (bvoc)/Rocky Dijon (congas)
Line-up ‘Street Fighting Man’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bass)/BJ (sitar, tamboura)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Dave Mason (shehani)
Line-up ‘No Expectations’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (perc)/
Nicky Hopkins (p)
Line-up ‘Dear Doctor’: MJ (voc, tamb)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/BW (bass)/BJ (harm)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (tack p)/Dave Mason (gtr)
Line-up ‘Parachute Woman’: MJ (voc, harm)/KR (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/
Line-up ‘Jig-Saw Puzzle’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bass)/BJ (gtr, mellotron)/BW (synth)
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)
Line-up ‘Street Fighting Man’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bass)/BJ (sitar, tamboura)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Dave Mason (shehani)
Line-up ‘Prodigal Son’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (harm)/CW (dr)
Line-up ‘Stray Cat Blues’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (mellotron)/BW (bass)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Rocky Dijon (congas)
Line-up ‘Factory Girl’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (perc)/Rocky Dijon
(congas)/Dave Mason (mandolin)/Rick Grech (fiddle)
Line-up ‘Salt Of The Earth’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, voc)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Nicky
Hopkins (p)/Watts Street Gospel Choir (bvoc)

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

Rev. Robert W. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Prodigal Son" the only "BB" track on which Ry
> Cooder is thought to have played?
>
> Since he was credited with mandolin on the "LIB"
> "Love In Vain," wouldn't it stand to reason that
> the performance on "Factory Girl" is him on an
> actual mandolin, rather than a Paleolithic synth
> like the Mellotron? I'm just having a hard time
> believing that they would choose to synthesize
> that part or that it could sound so convincing...
>
> I remember that he's on "Sister Morphine," but not
> sure in what capacity. Nothing on "Exile," but
> also the "Honky Tonk Women" single?


I'd say Ry isn't on any of Beggars at all!

Ry's officially released/acknowledged parts were recorded in spring 1969. Mandolin on Love in Vain, Slide guitar on Sister Morphine and of course the guitar on Bill's Sweet Lyle Lucie(aka Downtown Suzie), plus the Jamming with Edward album.

The mellotron is not a synthesizer, rather a tape machine with pre recorded notes which are triggered by pressing a key(s). This is why it sounds so convincing, the sound isn't synthesized, it's a recording.

Reasoning that Ry played mandolin on LiV = he also played on Factory girl is a very flawed way of attributing credits. Especially when A) The sound and characteristics of the mandolin sound heard on FG match the mandolin heard on the Satanic Sessions, simply because that too is a mellotron. Also, going by the available quotes Ry didn't play with the stones till 1969. Beggars Banquet was done and dusted by the summer of 1968.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-18 00:31 by His Majesty.

His Majesty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'd say Ry isn't on any of Beggars at all!
>
> Ry's officially released/acknowledged released
> parts were recorded in spring 1969. Mandolin on
> Love in Vain, Slide guitar on Sister Morphine and
> of course the guitar on Bill's Sweet Lyle
> Lucie(aka Downtown Suzie), plus the Jamming with
> Edward album.
>
> The mellotron is not a synthesizer, rather a tape
> machine with pre recorded notes which are
> triggered by pressing a key(s). This is why it
> sounds so convincing, the sound isn't synthesized,
> it's a recording.
>

That's great stuff. Many thanks for clearing those issues up...

Jimmy Miller stated in 91 that they redid all vocals for Sympathy in LA's Sunset Sound studio's. He also stated that the fragment in the One+One movie -with all gathered around the microphone- was set-up only for the movie. Hence, Pallenberg, Faitfull, Wyman, Watts and Jones do not sing backup on Sympathy.

Ry Cooder states in a '71 interview that he met Jagger for the first time in July '68 in LA, when recording Faithful's Something Better. This is AFTER BB was recorded and mixed. So, Cooder does not play on BB.

Mathijs

I'm no expert or obsessive when it comes to the topic of who played what and where...but I can't understand this pondering of whether or not Ry Cooder played on BB.
There's nothing on BB that sounds even remotely like Ry Cooder ;^)

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Ry Cooder states in a '71 interview that he met
> Jagger for the first time in July '68 in LA, when
> recording Faithful's Something Better. This is
> AFTER BB was recorded and mixed. So, Cooder does
> not play on BB.
>
> Mathijs

Oops, I forgot about that single!

saltoftheearth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, the fiddle on Factory girl was played by
> Byron Berline. He recorded it on the street when a
> car came along. Thy left the car's horn on the
> recording.
>


Sorry, that was an error! Of course, it was Country honk which I was talking about.