No Keith's first dabble with open G was "Child of the Moon"

Open D and E are really the same thing. Some guitarists hedge at tuning the A and D strings up a whole step because of the tension it puts on the neck, so it's better to drop to open D and capo. Open E is a nice tuning for lap steel, by the way...

That's all I have ever done, 71Tele, is drop to D and capo on the 2nd if I wanna go open E. And I agree with the lap steel tuning for E - I can reproduce the No Expectations part quite nicely in that tuning (though I am certainly not a qualified lap steel player)

Quote
drummer_dude
No Keith's first dabble with open G was "Child of the Moon"

What's your basis for this? I think it's open D, but happy to change my opinion if you can show me some evidence. I don't mean to doubt your knowledge, but given that COTM pre-dated Ry Cooder and is in the key of D, I also assumed it was in open D.

Quote
71Tele

Quote
drummer_dude
No Keith's first dabble with open G was "Child of the Moon"

What's your basis for this? I think it's open D, but happy to change my opinion if you can show me some evidence. I don't mean to doubt your knowledge, but given that COTM pre-dated Ry Cooder and is in the key of D, I also assumed it was in open D.

With respect to dummer-dude, "Child of the Moon" is in open D.

On the hampton dvd it always sounded to me like Mick says "Give us an E Keith.." just before Neighbors. Is this in E? If not what the Heck is he saying?

Quote
ryanpow
On the hampton dvd it always sounded to me like Mick says "Give us an E Keith.." just before Neighbors. Is this in E? If not what the Heck is he saying?

I think he wanted a note so he could get the pitch because he has to come in after an intro of just drums.

that would make sense for that song

I thought playing in open chords is used only with bottle-neck...kind of cheating doin it without it....Is Keith a proper guitarist?

Quote
drummer_dude
No Keith's first dabble with open G was "Child of the Moon"

Nope! That's open D tuning.

Quote
ryanpow
On the hampton dvd it always sounded to me like Mick says "Give us an E Keith." just before Neighbors.
Is this in E? If not what the Heck is he saying?

... just for the record, for any non-guitar-oriented archeologists who might unearth this thread in 500 years:
what tunings are used on any of the guitars on a track and what key a track is in are two different things.
Keith's guitar on Neighbours isn't in open E. yes, Mick asks for an E. two different things.

The 1st E-string is ringing consistantly in the same tone as the chord Keith plays all through Child Of The Moon. That should be evidence enough of COTM being played in open tuning with all 6 strings. Since the song is in D, and he's not playing way up on the fretboard, we may conclude with an open D-tuning.

Quote
with sssoul


... just for the record, for any non-guitar-oriented archeologists who might unearth this thread in 500 years:
what tunings are used on any of the guitars on a track and what key a track is in are two different things.
Keith's guitar on Neighbours isn't in open E. yes, Mick asks for an E. two different things.

After I wrote that post and thought about it I figured that was probably the case. thanks for clearing that up. Sorry for the confusion it might cause to future archeologists.

Quote
Roll73
Off the top of my head:

Jumping Jack Flash

Jumpin' Jack Flash is also not in open E. The live versions from the past almost 40 years are in open G of course and the studio track + some of the live performances (R'n'R Circus for instance) are in standard tuning.

Here is our good old Justin giving a lesson:





And here is the R'n'R Circus version:







Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-26 17:13 by Happy24.

Quote
Happy24
Jumpin' Jack Flash is also not in open E.

It is on the orginal recording.

Quote
Koen

Quote
Happy24
Jumpin' Jack Flash is also not in open E.

It is on the orginal recording.

Vindicated! Justin seems to be giving bum steers.

Quote
Happy24


Jumpin' Jack Flash is also not in open E. The live versions from the past almost 40 years are in open G of course and the studio track + some of the live performances (R'n'R Circus for instance) are in standard tuning.

The studio version certainly features guitars that are tuned to open E.

No disrespect to Justin, but what he plays doesn't sound like the studio version.

The R&R Circus version is pretty unique due to it being played in standard tuning, but it too is missing a lot of elements of the studio version.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-26 18:24 by His Majesty.

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-28 17:24 by dcba.

On the Jack Flash record the rhythm part on the right side of the audio field is definitely Open E - if you isolate it using audio editing tools theres a distinctive "slur" from the F# to the A in the main riff that just isn't there when played in standard tuning. The "louder" riff on the left side appears to be standard tuning based on the picked notes played during the middle eight and some of the other chord voicings.

YCAGWYW is deffo Open E on the record - again isolate the left field of the stereo and play along using Open G and Open E and its clear - you don't get the same ringing tone from the B and high E in Open G.

The only plus to unemployment is the time it affords you to do little projects like this......

Quote
Tricky76
On the Jack Flash record the rhythm part on the right side of the audio field is definitely Open E - if you isolate it using audio editing tools theres a distinctive "slur" from the F# to the A in the main riff that just isn't there when played in standard tuning. The "louder" riff on the left side appears to be standard tuning based on the picked notes played during the middle eight and some of the other chord voicings.

A big problem with sounding like the record is the sound itself!

There's so much going on, so many different sounds all coming together to make 'THE' sound. There's about 4 or 5 guitars in there(the acoustic/philips tape machine track, which is the first sound you hear, is thrashing away throughout), then the piano, organ etc.

Play any of those guitar parts on their own and they sound rather weak.

I think the majority of the guitars were tuned to open E, but the middle 8 higher picking guitar which then plays a wonky little lead lick before fading out is probably standard tuning.

The lower picked notes during this section are obviously easy to play in either tuning, but playing that part using open E just seems to have the right feel of whats on the record.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-27 01:37 by His Majesty.

Okay, I give up :-) - the studio version of JJF is probably not in standart tuning, but that makes the Rock'n'Roll Circus version even more unique! What about the Hyde Park varsion? Doesn't Keit play it in open-G already? I am not sure.

>> What about the Hyde Park version? Doesn't Keith play it in open-G already? I am not sure. <<


- JJF july 5th 1969 (screenshot by browneyedgirll)

that is a pretty definitive illustration of open g
(but as already noted: the original recording features a lot of open-E tuning)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-28 16:25 by with sssoul.

Yeap sssoul, this is exactly the moment of the film when I assumend it must be open G - capo on the 4th fret :-) My ears not that good to distiguish it only by listening.

Quote
Happy24
that makes the Rock'n'Roll Circus version even more unique!

Indeed it does, it's possibly the only time Keith played it in standard as part of a Rolling Stones set. Guess he could be standard at the 1968 NME Poll Winners slot too.

Am I the only one who gets confused on this thread when the queen of ":E" posts on a thread about "E"?

Jig Saw Puzzle

>> Am I the only one who gets confused ... <<

ohh i'm sorry - you're right. that was highly unkempt of me but i've fixed it now :E

What is Jig Saw Puzzle? The Stones do a song called Jigsaw Puzzle but I've never heard of this Jig Saw Puzzle people keep saying here.

The slide in Jigsaw Puzzle is open E but the acoustic is STANDARD.

List the chords, skipper. I may try this one today - never tried it before. Thanks!

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
Happy24
that makes the Rock'n'Roll Circus version even more unique!

Indeed it does, it's possibly the only time Keith played it in standard as part of a Rolling Stones set. Guess he could be standard at the 1968 NME Poll Winners slot too.

I've always liked the R&R Circus version, the main riff is an octave lower...what if Keith had played it this way all these years!

I wonder if there is a bootleg of 1968/NME?!