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Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: klrkcr ()
Date: January 22, 2010 11:45

Does anyone know the story behind when the guitars were stolen? I have read somewhere that some of them later turned up in London- is this true?- did Keith ever get any of them back?

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 22, 2010 18:44

This subject has been covered a few times over the years and a definitive list has never been fully agreed upon. For awhile I had thought the Bigsby Burst owned by Mick T was stolen there as was his SG but I have never seen pictures of those guitars at Nellcote and so they may have been lost/stolen during the '71 tour or after. The Flying V used at Hyde Park is one for certain as well as an ES-355. Possibly Keith's 3PU LP Customs used extensively since 1967 but not seen after the '71 tour as well. If anyone knows for certain what was stolen Nellcote please post a list and please if you can list your source of information.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-22 18:46 by ChrisM.

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 22, 2010 18:50

I did a search of the forum. Check this link out: Nicked Guitars

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: klrkcr ()
Date: January 23, 2010 01:13

Apologies for that- I didnt word the search correctly. One quick question- had the guitars not been taken, would Keith have ended up with Macawber? Didnt he get this to replace the ones stolen?

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 23, 2010 16:39

Quote
ChrisM
This subject has been covered a few times over the years and a definitive list has never been fully agreed upon. For awhile I had thought the Bigsby Burst owned by Mick T was stolen there as was his SG but I have never seen pictures of those guitars at Nellcote and so they may have been lost/stolen during the '71 tour or after. The Flying V used at Hyde Park is one for certain as well as an ES-355. Possibly Keith's 3PU LP Customs used extensively since 1967 but not seen after the '71 tour as well. If anyone knows for certain what was stolen Nellcote please post a list and please if you can list your source of information.

Wyman stated that 11 guitars and some basses where stolen. Among the guitars most likely the two Ampeg DA's, a Flying V, a Gibson ES-355, a '59 LP, a '59 Junior, Taylor's Telecaster and SG, a Hummingbird and an Epiphone Frontier.

Has the bigsby burst ever be seen on the '71 tour? I do not recall any pictures of it after the '70 tour.

Mathijs

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 26, 2010 01:43

Quote
Mathijs
Has the bigsby burst ever be seen on the '71 tour? I do not recall any pictures of it after the '70 tour.

Mathijs
That'a a good question. Now that you mention it I haven't seen any pics of that guitar in the Stones camp since after 1970. However I have not seen many pics of '71 tour at all. If anyone has any pics of the '71 tour I'd love to see them!

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: shortfatfanny ()
Date: January 26, 2010 02:19

Here you go,Chris....
[www.iorr.org]


Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 26, 2010 02:39

Many thanks shortfatfanny for the reminder. I did see this thread before. The synapses aren't firing too well today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-26 02:48 by ChrisM.

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: straycatblues73 ()
Date: January 26, 2010 18:23

Quote
ChrisM
Quote
Mathijs
Has the bigsby burst ever be seen on the '71 tour? I do not recall any pictures of it after the '70 tour.

Mathijs
That'a a good question. Now that you mention it I haven't seen any pics of that guitar in the Stones camp since after 1970. However I have not seen many pics of '71 tour at all. If anyone has any pics of the '71 tour I'd love to see them!

if it was stolen on the '70 tour , is it possible to listen to the boots and find out when it is no longer played (if it was played like in 69)?

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 26, 2010 18:41

Can you say where you heard the guitar was stolen in 1970 straycat? As to your question it's possible to pick the guitar out but a good recording would be needed (and a good set of ears too!) If any you have Ethan Russel's' LIB book, there is a pic, albeit small, of Keith playing the Bigsby Burst but capoed at the 4th fret which suggests he is playing Jumping Jack Flash or Street Fighting Man so it's interesting to note the guitar was used on songs besides Love In Vain and Honk Tonk Women during the '69 tour.

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: straycatblues73 ()
Date: January 27, 2010 21:22

Quote
ChrisM
Can you say where you heard the guitar was stolen in 1970 straycat? As to your question it's possible to pick the guitar out but a good recording would be needed (and a good set of ears too!) If any you have Ethan Russel's' LIB book, there is a pic, albeit small, of Keith playing the Bigsby Burst but capoed at the 4th fret which suggests he is playing Jumping Jack Flash or Street Fighting Man so it's interesting to note the guitar was used on songs besides Love In Vain and Honk Tonk Women during the '69 tour.
i have no idea where ( or if) i heard / read that
has it been seen since the '70 tour?
maybe i put 2 & 2 together.. intriguing though . would be interresting to pin it down.(i have a good set of ears, but no '70 boots, and it might need more pairs!!!

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 27, 2010 22:00

Quote
straycatblues73
i have no idea where ( or if) i heard / read that
has it been seen since the '70 tour?
Yes indeed it has. The Bigsby Burst surfaced in 2004 or so and was out up for auction but did not sell. It has changed hands privately a few times since and last I heard it now resides in Northern England. Check it out: Bigsby Burst

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: straycatblues73 ()
Date: January 27, 2010 22:58

Quote
ChrisM
Quote
straycatblues73
i have no idea where ( or if) i heard / read that
has it been seen since the '70 tour?
Yes indeed it has. The Bigsby Burst surfaced in 2004 or so and was out up for auction but did not sell. It has changed hands privately a few times since and last I heard it now resides in Northern England. Check it out: Bigsby Burst

yes chris thanks for that link , sorry i meant after the '70 tour and before it was nicked.
ah i found this , ignore everything i said!

Yes, he had and has the money to buy everything he wants, but in 1971 the guitar market wasn't what it is today. There were only a few specialised shops, with the shops on Denmark Street in London, Manny's in New York and Gruhn in Nashville. Finding a '59 Les Paul could easily take a year, and finding good Strats and Tele's was even harder. So I bet he wasn't too happy about his guitars being stolen. Stolen for sure by the way was the Armstrong, a '59 Gibson ES-355, the Flying V, a Gibson ES-330, a '59 Les Paul Custom, Taylor's Bigsby Les Paul and '61 SG, two Gibson Hummingbirds and a Fender Jazz Bass. There must be more though. I believe 11 instruments were reported to the police.
Mathijs


wow, somebody , probably an octopus , walked out of there with his arms full



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-27 23:11 by straycatblues73.

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: Lightnin' ()
Date: January 27, 2010 23:17

Quote
ChrisM
Can you say where you heard the guitar was stolen in 1970 straycat?

Quote
straycatblues73
i have no idea where ( or if) i heard / read that
has it been seen since the '70 tour?
maybe i put 2 & 2 together.. intriguing though . would be interresting to pin it down.(i have a good set of ears, but no '70 boots, and it might need more pairs!!!

Why is there some kind of notion that Mick T's '59 LP with bigsby got stolen on tour in 1970 ?

I have not heard of such an incident. Are there any references for this ?
Taylor's '59 sunburst LP was stolen from Nellcote in October 1971, along with many other guitars, a couple of bass guitars and a saxophone.

I don't understand why someone would suddenly suggest that Taylor's LP guitar was not stolen.
As for his SG, that's a different story. It's true that the SG was not involved in the theft during the recording of Exile. Taylor gave that guitar away, 3 or 4 years later, to his brother-in-law as a wedding present.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-27 23:20 by Lightnin'.

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 27, 2010 23:35

Here is a photo that shows some of the guitars present at Nellcote, presumably prior to the theft. Perhaps the SG was missed during the theft Lightin'? Many of the guitars Mathijs mentions are pictured here except the Bigsby Burst, Les Paul Custom, Hummingbirds and Jazz bass. Anyone else have some pics showing guitars at Nellcote? Post 'em if ya got 'em please!



Photo by Dominic Tarle



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-27 23:42 by ChrisM.

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: klrkcr ()
Date: January 27, 2010 23:38

Just wanting to clarify an earlier post. Although I have seen a clip( 2000 light years) with Keith playing a tele- do you think he would have such a strong association with them had his other stock not been stolen? The black tele custom and Micawber,along with Malcolm and the sunburst have played( no pun intended!) an important part of Keiths "weapons"for at least 30 odd years- would he have ended with these anyway?

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 27, 2010 23:42

Good question klrkcr. We'll never know of course.

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: straycatblues73 ()
Date: January 27, 2010 23:51

must have got my wires crossed sorry,
anyway stopped us talking about ronnies russian dolls for a while,
nice guitar picture , chris!

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:01

Quote
Lightnin'
Quote
ChrisM
Can you say where you heard the guitar was stolen in 1970 straycat?

Quote
straycatblues73
i have no idea where ( or if) i heard / read that
has it been seen since the '70 tour?
maybe i put 2 & 2 together.. intriguing though . would be interresting to pin it down.(i have a good set of ears, but no '70 boots, and it might need more pairs!!!

Why is there some kind of notion that Mick T's '59 LP with bigsby got stolen on tour in 1970 ?

I have not heard of such an incident. Are there any references for this ?
Taylor's '59 sunburst LP was stolen from Nellcote in October 1971, along with many other guitars, a couple of bass guitars and a saxophone.

I don't understand why someone would suddenly suggest that Taylor's LP guitar was not stolen.
As for his SG, that's a different story. It's true that the SG was not involved in the theft during the recording of Exile. Taylor gave that guitar away, 3 or 4 years later, to his brother-in-law as a wedding present.

The notion that the Bigsby Burst was stolen on tour rather than at Nellcote came from Taylor and various people from the Stones entourage like Ian Stewart and Bill Wyman. Ian Stewart was quoted some guitars where stolen while boarding a train 'on tour' (what tour he meant is not clear), and Taylor has mentioned that two of his Les Pauls got stolen while on tour -the first a '58 which he replaced with the Bigsby Burst and the SG, and the second being the Bigsby burst. He also mentioned it being stolen while travelling on train in England.

As far as I am aware they only travelled by train in England during the '71 tour, and thus I assume it was stolen then and that this is the reason it hasn't shown up on any pictures from Nellcote. But it remains unclear.

Both Wyman and Taylor have stated the SG was part of the guitars that where stolen from Nellcote, and this would indeed explain why a guitar that was clearly Taylor's favorite guitar (playing it almost solely in 69, 70 and 71) does show up on early pictures at Nellcote but not show on any pictures after the July 71 theft. Of course anything is possible, but the wedding gift story seems awkward.

Mathijs

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:23

Quote
Mathijs


The notion that the Bigsby Burst was stolen on tour rather than at Nellcote came from Taylor and various people from the Stones entourage like Ian Stewart and Bill Wyman. Ian Stewart was quoted some guitars where stolen while boarding a train 'on tour' (what tour he meant is not clear), and Taylor has mentioned that two of his Les Pauls got stolen while on tour -the first a '58 which he replaced with the Bigsby Burst and the SG, and the second being the Bigsby burst. He also mentioned it being stolen while traveling on train in England.

Aren't you referring to Bigsby equipped Les Paul that Mick used in the late '80s and early '90s that was (also?) stolen from a train? The 58 you mention was stolen while he was with Mayall and which prompted him to buy the Bigsby Burst in the fall of '67 as you already know.

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: Lightnin' ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:30

Quote
ChrisM
Here is a photo that shows some of the guitars present at Nellcote, presumably prior to the theft. Perhaps the SG was missed during the theft Lightin'?

Lightnin' is the name. It could be that it was missed - or maybe it was at Taylor's own place when the gang of burglars arrived at Nellcote.
Everything indicates it was a professional / inside job so in a way it seems unlikely they would have left it standing there if they had noticed the SG.

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:35

Sorry about the 'n' omission in your name. What you say is certainly plausible but then why didn't Mick use the SG, which he had used extensively since acquiring it, during the '72 tour and up until the time he may have given it away?

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:37

Quote
ChrisM
Quote
Mathijs


The notion that the Bigsby Burst was stolen on tour rather than at Nellcote came from Taylor and various people from the Stones entourage like Ian Stewart and Bill Wyman. Ian Stewart was quoted some guitars where stolen while boarding a train 'on tour' (what tour he meant is not clear), and Taylor has mentioned that two of his Les Pauls got stolen while on tour -the first a '58 which he replaced with the Bigsby Burst and the SG, and the second being the Bigsby burst. He also mentioned it being stolen while traveling on train in England.

Aren't you referring to Bigsby equipped Les Paul that Mick used in the late '80s and early '90s that was (also?) stolen from a train? The 58 you mention was stolen while he was with Mayall and which prompted him to buy the Bigsby Burst in the fall of '67 as you already know.

I know of the the second Bigsby LP being stolen while on a train -that guitar was not a Gibson though. I would advice Taylor not to travel with guitar by train.

Mathijs

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 28, 2010 00:47

Quote
Lightnin'
Quote
ChrisM
Here is a photo that shows some of the guitars present at Nellcote, presumably prior to the theft. Perhaps the SG was missed during the theft Lightin'?

Lightnin' is the name. It could be that it was missed - or maybe it was at Taylor's own place when the gang of burglars arrived at Nellcote.
Everything indicates it was a professional / inside job so in a way it seems unlikely they would have left it standing there if they had noticed the SG.

Not all guitars where stolen -the ES-355 seen with Taylor in '75 might be the one from '71, and Wyman's home made bass wasn't stolen.

Mathijs

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: RollingStonesRob ()
Date: January 28, 2010 01:13

Yes! That Es-355 was also shown in pictures in 1972 and possibly used on the tours in 1972 and 1973.

htttp://www.last.fm/user/rocknrollcola

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: January 28, 2010 02:47

Quote
RollingStonesRob
Yes! That Es-355 was also shown in pictures in 1972 and possibly used on the tours in 1972 and 1973.
Care to share any pics of this?

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: January 28, 2010 03:53

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Lightnin'
Quote
ChrisM
Can you say where you heard the guitar was stolen in 1970 straycat?

Quote
straycatblues73
i have no idea where ( or if) i heard / read that
has it been seen since the '70 tour?
maybe i put 2 & 2 together.. intriguing though . would be interresting to pin it down.(i have a good set of ears, but no '70 boots, and it might need more pairs!!!

Why is there some kind of notion that Mick T's '59 LP with bigsby got stolen on tour in 1970 ?

I have not heard of such an incident. Are there any references for this ?
Taylor's '59 sunburst LP was stolen from Nellcote in October 1971, along with many other guitars, a couple of bass guitars and a saxophone.

I don't understand why someone would suddenly suggest that Taylor's LP guitar was not stolen.
As for his SG, that's a different story. It's true that the SG was not involved in the theft during the recording of Exile. Taylor gave that guitar away, 3 or 4 years later, to his brother-in-law as a wedding present.

The notion that the Bigsby Burst was stolen on tour rather than at Nellcote came from Taylor and various people from the Stones entourage like Ian Stewart and Bill Wyman. Ian Stewart was quoted some guitars where stolen while boarding a train 'on tour' (what tour he meant is not clear), and Taylor has mentioned that two of his Les Pauls got stolen while on tour -the first a '58 which he replaced with the Bigsby Burst and the SG, and the second being the Bigsby burst. He also mentioned it being stolen while travelling on train in England.

As far as I am aware they only travelled by train in England during the '71 tour, and thus I assume it was stolen then and that this is the reason it hasn't shown up on any pictures from Nellcote. But it remains unclear.

Both Wyman and Taylor have stated the SG was part of the guitars that where stolen from Nellcote, and this would indeed explain why a guitar that was clearly Taylor's favorite guitar (playing it almost solely in 69, 70 and 71) does show up on early pictures at Nellcote but not show on any pictures after the July 71 theft. Of course anything is possible, but the wedding gift story seems awkward.

Mathijs

Hate to bring this up, but didn't Taylor sell some guitars for drug money? He also had a story about one being stolen on a train. I have vintage guitars. I can't imagine leaving one on a train unattended, even for a minute.

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: Lightnin' ()
Date: January 28, 2010 08:41

Quote
Mathijs
I know of the the second Bigsby LP being stolen while on a train -that guitar was not a Gibson though. I would advice Taylor not to travel with guitar by train.

Mathijs

When you are a touring musician you have to go places. And when you arrive back at Heathrow or finish recording in a London studio it's not always at a civilised hour but you still need to get home somehow.

Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: Smokey ()
Date: January 28, 2010 09:06

Quote
ChrisM
Sorry about the 'n' omission in your name. What you say is certainly plausible but then why didn't Mick use the SG, which he had used extensively since acquiring it, during the '72 tour and up until the time he may have given it away?

His shoulder healed? Gibson asked him to?

Quote
ChrisM
The 58 you mention was stolen while he was with Mayall and which prompted him to buy the Bigsby Burst in the fall of '67 as you already know.

I thought the story of the pre-Richards burst is:

Quote

Gardiner Houlgate to Sell £100,000 Gibson Guitar
HISTORY OF THE 1959 GIBSON LES PAUL STANDARD GUITAR
The vendor John Scates was already an experienced, road hardened veteran of several 60's bands when, in 1968, while performing with an in vogue blues band called Pegasus, he saw an advert in the Melody Maker for a Gibson Les Paul Standard. At the time this desirable yet discontinued model was becoming ever more difficult to get hold of. More in hope than anticipation, John called the number advertised and was surprised to find he was speaking to Mick Taylor, who had only recently taken over as guitarist with The Blues Breakers, replacing Peter Green and later to replace Brian Jones in The Rolling Stones. An appointment was made and John went to Mick's West London flat where he handed over £200 and left with the Les Paul. Although a receipt was made out this has subsequently been misplaced.
When John Scates viewed the guitar it was apparent that a Bigsby unit was taken off and replaced with a non-standard stop tail piece. This was later changed by John to a standard fitting, but the Mick Taylor tail piece is offered with the guitar. Otherwise the guitar was and still is original in all respects.
The rather battered case is a non-standard case but is the one that came with the guitar and has suffered countless gigs.
Pegasus, although not commercially successful, were a tight and musical blues outfit and they soon became the unofficial resident support band at the Marquee where John, wielding his beloved standard, supported bands such as Free; Paul Kossoff played John's standard and loved it so much he offered to trade for a black three pick-up Les Paul, the offer was declined. ...
The auction will take place at The Westbury Hotel in Mayfair, London, on Monday 5 October 2009. For further information contact Jamie South (Director) or Luke H

So Taylor had three bursts in the 60s: the pre-Richards one stolen in '67, the Richards one, and this last one sold in '68?


Re: Nellcote guitar theft
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 28, 2010 10:35

Quote
71Tele


Hate to bring this up, but didn't Taylor sell some guitars for drug money? He also had a story about one being stolen on a train. I have vintage guitars. I can't imagine leaving one on a train unattended, even for a minute.

He sold his two Bursts (the plain Burst from the '72 tour and the figured 'claw' burst from the '73 tour) in the early 80's as he was broke due to drug use.

Mathijs

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