From the IHT: [iht.com]
That's Munchen to those of us here in the throbbing heart of Europe.

Rounding out the top ten:

2) Copenhagen
3) Zurich
4) Tokyo
5) Vienna
6) Helsinki
7) Sydney
8) Stockholm
9) Honolulu
10) Madrid

Off the list, I've been to Copenhagen, Tokyo, Helsinki, Stockholm & Honolulu. I must say, I absolutely LOVE Copenhagen (and with the beautiful women there, it also seems the world's most "live with me-able" city.) I don't really understand the inclusion of Helsinki - public transport is a nightmare. I've been to Zurich airport however, and with all the power suits, I felt truly under-dressed. Seemed like the only airport I've been to with a dress-code.

As for Vienna, I haven't been there, but I RECALL our fellow poster Lorenz appraising us of the ULTRA-HIGH CRIME RATES!

And I have a feeling Copenhagen will become even more livable on August the 5th!

*and i'm just like that bird - singing just for you*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-24 13:50 by the singer not the bong.

Weather and cost of living don't seem to be very important criteria here.

Just pass by Vienna on your trip to Belgrade...I'll make sure to inform you about the very dangerous areas, lol
There are some other studies as well, by the way - usually Vienna and Vancouver occupy the first ranks. [www.mercerhr.com]


Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

Cant take the list serious since neither Tromsö nor Bollnäs is on it.

.... thats the worst ten....

soundcheck Wrote:
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> .... thats the worst ten....


so i take it your top ten includes cleveland, clichy-sous-bois and lagos?

*and i'm just like that bird - singing just for you*

found a similar list for top 50 quality-of-living world cities 2006 here:

[www.listsofbests.com]

1.Zürich
2.Geneva
3.Vancouver
4.Wien
5.Auckland
6.Düsseldorf
7.Frankfurt am Main
8.München
9.Bern
10.Sydney
11.Copenhagen
12.Wellington
13.Amsterdam
14.Brussels
15.Toronto
16.Berlin
17.Melbourne
18.Ottawa
19.Stockholm
20.Perth

germany and switzerland do well in this list. it also fits in a bit more with what some of you are saying about vancouver, and of course adds a few more cities w/ major stones' lore. although at this point, most cities have some connection to great stones' gigs and/or stories. was very surprised to see i live in the 40th on the list, DC....or should i say, i was surprised to see DC listed as #40, not that i was surprised to find myself living in DC, haha.

Interesting list in the Herald Tribune there Bongster but having been to all top 20 cities numerous times (not the list above but the IHT List - the list above seems even more off kilter BTW) I must say once they put Auckland above Paris I have to back off a bit from taking it very seriously. I mean, come on - let's get real......

not having been to any of the IHT list's top 20 myself, helterskelter, what would you list as your top 3 cities in your travels? no in-depth reporting required, just curious as to your impressions/faves.

These lists are absurd, Munich most liveable city?
Depends on your criteria, if you are a rich suit who likes cocktail bars and the company of other suits, in a city that is dead Monday to Friday ,then thats the place for you. However if your a real human being try Havana,Bangkok or Barcelona, or if you really like Germany, Berlin pisses on Mucich every time.

winter Wrote:
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> not having been to any of the IHT list's top 20
> myself, helterskelter, what would you list as your
> top 3 cities in your travels? no in-depth
> reporting required, just curious as to your
> impressions/faves.

I mean, it depends what criteria you wanna put on it (I do Travel Photography so the city has to be one of the more, quote - BEAUTIFUL - unquote. But for all around, Beauty plus nice lifestyle (nice people, good food/wine/beer, great public transport, not "crazy expensive", crime rate not out of control, weather not too extreme) I'll leave out American cities since my views change to fast on them -

#1 PARIS #2 BUENOS AIRES #3 this ones tough, I'd say VENICE but it's not exactly "normal life" with so many tourists everyday. A 3 way tie - LISBON/PRAGUE/VIENNA Gotta give Scandinavia a shout out with COPENHAGEN/STOCKHOLM and since my list is way to Euro - centric let me add non-European SYDNEY (don't kill me ROCKMAN), SINGAPORE, VANCOUVER, TOKYO or KYOTO. I'm leaving Switzerland out for ethical reasons....Sorry about going over a bit on the numbers but 3 is hard....

Nice you mentioned Vienna as well
How did you get your job, HelterSkelter? I love doing photography, on an amateur level of course, but still.


Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

HelterSkelter, you leave out Switzerland for ethical reasons, why? I think its a very "ethical" and misunderstood country if you leave out the banks

the singer not the bong Wrote:
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> soundcheck Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > .... thats the worst ten....
>
>
> so i take it your top ten includes cleveland,
> clichy-sous-bois and lagos? v

...... your take is wrong.

Surprised Newark didn't make the list lol.

Munich is a great city....but as a 20th Century historian, every time I've visited Germany (Bavaria in particular) its hard for me to get past the shadows of the Third Reich....






I don't mean to offend, it just is what it is.

the shoot 'em dead, brainbell jangler!

where did San francisco Rank? I like living here. Only thing I dont like about it is thats its so GD expensive. and the parking situation is just one big scam. Public transportation is a joke always breaking down, delays ect. ... Ok well those three things I dont like.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-25 00:58 by ryanpow.

Seriously is it possible to even attempt doing such a list??

Sorry, was gone for awhile putting together IKEA furniture (don't we NOW do the same sh*t all around the world? Well, IKEA is not in South America yet so almost around the world). On Switzerland - I'm leaving the banks IN (and the people, groups who have a place to leave questionable deposits) this is why I skipped it. It's not the younger people's fault, that's the system they were born into. I find ZURICH and GENEVA nice, pleasant places (Love HOTEL CALIFORNIA in Zurich, check out their website - and their bar/restaurant menu - VERY unique place...CLEVER !!!). I can't agree with Rattler2004 on Germany. I think almost anybody under 70 HATES that whole ugly period of their history. Every German friend I've had has said the most horrible things about that group, basically disowning them. As far as Germany my first 2 choices would be MUNICH and BERLIN but I haven't been to BERLIN since it's kinda been finished with all the new construction. Used to go all the time when it was WEST BERLIN. Man, I wish I'd been there when the wall came down, I ALMOST got on a plane with my camera - should have (a BIG regret), WHAT A PARTY !!!

Lorenz, well, how I got into it is different than the way the whole business is evolving into now. Back in the day if you were willing to roam around the planet A LOT (more than any guy with kids, wife, tons of responsibility, etc, etc, which cut out A LOT of good photographers) on, initually, your own dime, you could get with a stock agency and have your Travel Work represented and the USAGE of your image sold over and over and over again. That was back in the good old days. In THOSE days a guy in India might be a great photographer but didn't have the cash for a lot of film and the processing etc. Then came, TA DA, Digital Camera's and the guy in India can now afford to be a photographer and be represented (he sends all his shots through a computer - the way shots of a Stones concert show up 1 hour after Jagger sang that note. Guy sends them to Getty Images, Getty puts them up - it's kind of AMAZING, Amazes me when you think back to pre digital). He gets in his car and drives 20 minutes to shoot some great shots, you get in a plane and fly for 15 hours to get some great shots in the same village or whatever. This is happening all over the world and it's changing things - some good, some bad. I'm spreading myself out more and getting back into Fashion photography cause I just see Travel as possibly being over saturated in a few years. I was into Fashion a while back but there's a big freak show that surrounds the core that's kinda hard to deal with, lot of inflated ego, drama queens, emotional breakdowns, etc - people buy into the bullshit (IMAGE) of it - it's just a business, another way to sell people things.... The circus that surrounds it CAN BE avoided. If you wanna see some great fashion shots/portfolios go on [www.nextmodels.com] and you can click on EU or FR or UK or USA. They also rep Keith's Daughter Alexandra. If you wanna get a free Photo Portfolio together sign up (for free) to [www.photo.net] and start up loading your best shots. When you have about 50 or 100 contact stock agencies and direct them to your personal web page (which you can do with Photo.net) Also look into [www.flickr.com] OR [www.diviantart.com] Get a portfolio together and then start shopping it around. Let me know if you need some more info... Helter PS Be ready for changes cause that's all that's happening in the photo industry these days - sometimes spooky stuff if you like stability..... depends what you wanna shoot.....

HelterSkelter Wrote:
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> #1 PARIS #2 BUENOS AIRES #3 this ones tough, I'd
> say VENICE but it's not exactly "normal life" with
> so many tourists everyday.

As a native of Venice, I am a bit amused to see it on top of any "livable" list. It sure is beautiful, but also nauseatingly boring and horribly inconvenient. I have a hard enough time spending a few days there to visit my parents - I'd really hate lo live there again!

That's good to know Raoul cause I've never stayed there longer than 2 weeks at one time so it could EASILY become difficult for a very long stretch. But I look at it from the POV of being there , than in Paris or something, another few cities, and then coming back for a spell. I'm really looking at it from a "Beautiful City" point of view and on that scale Venice is a 10, you gotta agree.... nothing beats Venice for beauty.....

ryanpow Wrote:
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> where did San francisco Rank? I like living here.
> Only thing I dont like about it is thats its so GD
> expensive. and the parking situation is just one
> big scam. Public transportation is a joke always
> breaking down, delays ect. ... Ok well those three
> things I dont like.


Unfortunatly that's the way it goes around here ryan. That's why so many poeple,(myself inlcuded)live in the suburbs and just work in or visit SF.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

SCL, what's Ryanpow talking about? BART or the Cable cars? I've seen the Cable Cars have a bit of trouble but heard BART is great.... Tell you one thing, SF public transport beats LA's joke system and buses, we can ALL agree on that....

I'm guessing he's probably talking about Muni. But that's everybody's favorite target around here. I have a car and rarely take public trans around the Bay Area. But BART is generally considered pretty reliable. Cable cars are just for tourists........But the best part of San Francisco is our wacky politicians........I wanna party with Gavin Newsome. A supervisor recently accused our hip mayor of having used Cocaine in the past........The Gav,denied ever using................Sure and you've never slept with the wife of your top aide either.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

Coke + Politicans is a good thing, makes em do some work (only Coke and getting voted out of office works, since the 2nd one happens less and less we only have coke - and a 64 ounce StarBucks Triple Caffine - left as an aid - lol)

yes sweetcharmed & helter aim talking about Muni. The train I take goes through a tunnel, at least once a week they shut it down on when Im on the way to work and you have to take a shuttle that goes on the city streets and its just a huge pain in the ass.

yeah, I would be surpised If Gavin never did that stuff. who knows though, he says he never did. and I think that accusation was pretty uncalled for. "Below the belt" politics.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-25 06:22 by ryanpow.

HelterSkelter Wrote:
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> SF public transport beats LA's joke system
> and buses, we can ALL agree on that....

..... no need to knock los angeles,, seems to me the public gets around fine in

benz's and bmw's, some routes you'll even see more 7 series than the three

series.

I always thought San Diego had a great transportation system. Between the bus and trolley you could get anywhere easily.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-25 07:50 by FrankM.

FrankM Wrote:
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> I always thought San Diego had a great
> transportation system. Between the bus and trolley
> you could get anywhere easily.


the only place i wanna go in san diego is the airport - don't dig that town . . .

*and i'm just like that bird - singing just for you*

Oh man I loved San diego. The downtown area was kind of crappy but Mission Beach, La Jolla and Balboa park were awesome. And this is coming from an East Coaster who wasn't a big California guy.