Tell Me :
Talk
yes! - while I don't recall hearing the spoken comments you mention, I've long noticed that this section of "Tumbling Dice" seems to have been a problem as far as what taylor should play. The "tinkling" at this point of the number is something that it seems to me he grew more committed to as the tour went on -- I guess despite mick and keith's dislike for it?
I agree with them, the part that goes "da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK" at the end of the "got to roll me" refrains always stands out as inappropriately baroque or dramatic for the Stones ... it sounds like something on Born to Run. It's an example of taylor's true instincts not quite fitting the band, imo.
But they gave him inarguably more room during the 1973 tour. Taylor at that point had grown more committed to the band than ever before. The 1972 tour is an example of Taylor's true instincts extremely well fitting the band, resulting in lifting the band to its ultimate live peak in 1973. Brussels is an example of it.
I think because of the fact that Taylor was some kind of 'second' voice to him. They often did a duet so to speak. Great opera-like music actually.
"I think he had a big contribution. He made it very musical. He was a very fluent, melodic player, which we never had, and we don't have now. Neither Keith nor Ronnie play that kind of style. It was very good for me working with him ... Mick Taylor would play very fluid lines against my vocals. He was exciting, and he was very pretty, and it gave me something to follow, to bang off. Some people think that's the best version of the band that existed"
M. Jagger
this is a general theory--do you know the specific part pmk and I are talking about?
Of course I do and I listened to it again. A beautiful part, though the chords Taylor plays after it (more pregnant in other versions during that tour) are beautiful too. But the counterpoint-like tinkling is great. At the end of the FW 2nd TD-version Jagger says (in my ears at least) "Watch out, son". Imo Jagger himself liked the tinkling but he remembered Keith's attitude/sensibility (the Houston 1st TD "Stop That" by Keith is proof of that sensibility). His friendly warning ("Watch out, son" ) the day before, and especially the way he says it, tells me that Jagger himself had no problem with Taylor's 'noodling' and 'tinkling'. Ultimate proof is the 1973 tour. Well, that's my theory. The Jagger quote up here doesn't refute it.
My recollection is that Hopkins is the source for this earlier in the tour, and Taylor later mimicked it. I think it works better on the piano, but Taylor had a nice musical interaction with Hopkins on the tour and I like the way they played this part together.
all right, I just have a different interpretation then. When I hear that part (emphasized on certain recordings), my mind expects the song to resume with Bruce Springsteen leading the band.
that makes sense, as Nicky could be somewhat of a baroque stylist himself.
Actually a strange question, since I uploaded this very version of TD (FW 2nd) myself, some time ago, on YouTube.
TD is from 4.16 on, the specific part: from about 6.40 until 6.51
Compare that specific part to this specific part of the Brussels TD (also uploaded by myself, not so long ago), from about 2.30 on. Taylor tinkling and noodling all over the place until the final. Well, he wasn't "quite fitting the band"? I don't think so.
It's interesting, isn't it, especially in the light of my little theory up here.
Sounds absolutely right to my ears.
[www.reverbnation.com]
these comments belong to rehearsals . no one's talent should be limited during performances , it is ridiculous to shout and swear during the show and expect everything to be all right after.
the L&G comment , taylor seems to take no blind bit of notice of keiths comments ( if hey are directed to him , i have my doubts ) and seems oblivious of them,
if keith did shout that ,it is truely atrocious to treat a bandmate like that.
His friendly warning ("Watch out, son" ) we have no video so don't know who he is talking to , could be someone in the audience.
Indeed, though I posted many clips in the threads
[www.iorr.org] and
[www.iorr.org]
But that remark was of course fully subjective.
I bet it's Taylor.
But I loved those jazzy runs. Poor Mick.
I bet?? Shame on you this time, A. Of course it's Taylor. A blind horse can hear that. Besides Keith never could play that way.
yep definately Taylor.
Perhaps it's the simplicity that makes people think it's KR >?
How can longer solos and playing, less integrated to the song itself become "more comitted". Musically, he was very much comitted to the band in 1969, imo. He broke a bit loose in 1972 (still sounding marvellous) and took it over the top in 1973 (again imo).
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
pmk251
()
Date: October 9, 2010 20:33
Speaking of TD...The Texas performance in L&G (Houston 1st) is notable for Keith's often commented upon "Stop that!" which is obviously directed at Taylor. But brought to my attention is the Ft. Worth 2nd performance as well. At the start of the closing riff Taylor is tinkling those notes. Jagger clearly says "Don't do that." Taylor noodles along for a few more bars then goes mostly silent before picking it up again. I am guessing Jagger wants Keith to establish the riff before Taylor joins along. Jagger seems happy with the result at the end.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
cc
()
Date: October 9, 2010 21:10
Quote
pmk251
Speaking of TD... At the start of the closing riff Taylor is tinkling those notes.
yes! - while I don't recall hearing the spoken comments you mention, I've long noticed that this section of "Tumbling Dice" seems to have been a problem as far as what taylor should play. The "tinkling" at this point of the number is something that it seems to me he grew more committed to as the tour went on -- I guess despite mick and keith's dislike for it?
I agree with them, the part that goes "da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK" at the end of the "got to roll me" refrains always stands out as inappropriately baroque or dramatic for the Stones ... it sounds like something on Born to Run. It's an example of taylor's true instincts not quite fitting the band, imo.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: October 9, 2010 22:08
Quote
ccQuote
pmk251
Speaking of TD... At the start of the closing riff Taylor is tinkling those notes.
yes! - while I don't recall hearing the spoken comments you mention, I've long noticed that this section of "Tumbling Dice" seems to have been a problem as far as what taylor should play. The "tinkling" at this point of the number is something that it seems to me he grew more committed to as the tour went on -- I guess despite mick and keith's dislike for it?
I agree with them, the part that goes "da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK" at the end of the "got to roll me" refrains always stands out as inappropriately baroque or dramatic for the Stones ... it sounds like something on Born to Run. It's an example of taylor's true instincts not quite fitting the band, imo.
But they gave him inarguably more room during the 1973 tour. Taylor at that point had grown more committed to the band than ever before. The 1972 tour is an example of Taylor's true instincts extremely well fitting the band, resulting in lifting the band to its ultimate live peak in 1973. Brussels is an example of it.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
pmk251
()
Date: October 9, 2010 22:22
One thing I always admired is Jagger's on stage instincts and awareness A year or so later during TD (Brussels, of course) he tells Taylor "Keep on doin' that" and rides his lead guitarist to a thrilling finish. If Jagger did not like the tinkling notes in '72, he did not mind the repetitive notes in '73. But throughout those years and from the very first shows in '69 he was SO tuned in to what Taylor was doing. I cannot remember the word he used in that '95 RS mag interview: He (Taylor) gave me something to bang (something like that) off of.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: October 9, 2010 22:27
Quote
pmk251
One thing I always admired is Jagger's on stage instincts and awareness A year or so later during TD (Brussels, of course) he tells Taylor "Keep on doin' that" and rides his lead guitarist to a thrilling finish. If Jagger did not like the tinkling notes in '72, he did not mind the repetitive notes in '73. But throughout those years and from the very first shows in '69 he was SO tuned in to what Taylor was doing. I cannot remember the word he used in that '95 RS mag interview: He (Taylor) gave me something to bang (something like that) off of.
I think because of the fact that Taylor was some kind of 'second' voice to him. They often did a duet so to speak. Great opera-like music actually.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
stones78
()
Date: October 9, 2010 22:30
Quote
pmk251
One thing I always admired is Jagger's on stage instincts and awareness A year or so later during TD (Brussels, of course) he tells Taylor "Keep on doin' that" and rides his lead guitarist to a thrilling finish. If Jagger did not like the tinkling notes in '72, he did not mind the repetitive notes in '73. But throughout those years and from the very first shows in '69 he was SO tuned in to what Taylor was doing. I cannot remember the word he used in that '95 RS mag interview: He (Taylor) gave me something to bang (something like that) off of.
"I think he had a big contribution. He made it very musical. He was a very fluent, melodic player, which we never had, and we don't have now. Neither Keith nor Ronnie play that kind of style. It was very good for me working with him ... Mick Taylor would play very fluid lines against my vocals. He was exciting, and he was very pretty, and it gave me something to follow, to bang off. Some people think that's the best version of the band that existed"
M. Jagger
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: October 9, 2010 22:45
Keith does play a solo in Gimme Shelter, as well as Ronnie.
It's an interesting question though - songs where studio wise Keith did all of whatever but live Mick/Ronnie does...
Then there are the Brian Jones era songs where nobody had a solo but Keith does one - the brilliant live version of Under My Thumb from the Tattoo You tour is a perfect example - and the way they performed that tune is still stunning, to me.
The solo in Happy is minimal at most so having Mick/Ronnie play it makes more sense. Same with Tumbling Dice - Ronnie's solo since 1989 has been excellent I think.
It's an interesting question though - songs where studio wise Keith did all of whatever but live Mick/Ronnie does...
Then there are the Brian Jones era songs where nobody had a solo but Keith does one - the brilliant live version of Under My Thumb from the Tattoo You tour is a perfect example - and the way they performed that tune is still stunning, to me.
The solo in Happy is minimal at most so having Mick/Ronnie play it makes more sense. Same with Tumbling Dice - Ronnie's solo since 1989 has been excellent I think.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
cc
()
Date: October 9, 2010 22:51
Quote
kleermakerQuote
ccQuote
pmk251
Speaking of TD... At the start of the closing riff Taylor is tinkling those notes.
yes! - while I don't recall hearing the spoken comments you mention, I've long noticed that this section of "Tumbling Dice" seems to have been a problem as far as what taylor should play. The "tinkling" at this point of the number is something that it seems to me he grew more committed to as the tour went on -- I guess despite mick and keith's dislike for it?
I agree with them, the part that goes "da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK" at the end of the "got to roll me" refrains always stands out as inappropriately baroque or dramatic for the Stones ... it sounds like something on Born to Run. It's an example of taylor's true instincts not quite fitting the band, imo.
But they gave him inarguably more room during the 1973 tour. Taylor at that point had grown more committed to the band than ever before. The 1972 tour is an example of Taylor's true instincts extremely well fitting the band, resulting in lifting the band to its ultimate live peak in 1973. Brussels is an example of it.
this is a general theory--do you know the specific part pmk and I are talking about?
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: October 9, 2010 23:19
Quote
ccQuote
kleermakerQuote
ccQuote
pmk251
Speaking of TD... At the start of the closing riff Taylor is tinkling those notes.
yes! - while I don't recall hearing the spoken comments you mention, I've long noticed that this section of "Tumbling Dice" seems to have been a problem as far as what taylor should play. The "tinkling" at this point of the number is something that it seems to me he grew more committed to as the tour went on -- I guess despite mick and keith's dislike for it?
I agree with them, the part that goes "da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK" at the end of the "got to roll me" refrains always stands out as inappropriately baroque or dramatic for the Stones ... it sounds like something on Born to Run. It's an example of taylor's true instincts not quite fitting the band, imo.
But they gave him inarguably more room during the 1973 tour. Taylor at that point had grown more committed to the band than ever before. The 1972 tour is an example of Taylor's true instincts extremely well fitting the band, resulting in lifting the band to its ultimate live peak in 1973. Brussels is an example of it.
this is a general theory--do you know the specific part pmk and I are talking about?
Of course I do and I listened to it again. A beautiful part, though the chords Taylor plays after it (more pregnant in other versions during that tour) are beautiful too. But the counterpoint-like tinkling is great. At the end of the FW 2nd TD-version Jagger says (in my ears at least) "Watch out, son". Imo Jagger himself liked the tinkling but he remembered Keith's attitude/sensibility (the Houston 1st TD "Stop That" by Keith is proof of that sensibility). His friendly warning ("Watch out, son" ) the day before, and especially the way he says it, tells me that Jagger himself had no problem with Taylor's 'noodling' and 'tinkling'. Ultimate proof is the 1973 tour. Well, that's my theory. The Jagger quote up here doesn't refute it.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
Smokey
()
Date: October 10, 2010 00:29
Quote
cc
I agree with them, the part that goes "da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK" at the end of the "got to roll me" refrains always stands out as inappropriately baroque or dramatic for the Stones ... it sounds like something on Born to Run. It's an example of taylor's true instincts not quite fitting the band, imo.
My recollection is that Hopkins is the source for this earlier in the tour, and Taylor later mimicked it. I think it works better on the piano, but Taylor had a nice musical interaction with Hopkins on the tour and I like the way they played this part together.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
cc
()
Date: October 10, 2010 00:38
Quote
kleermaker
Of course I do and I listened to it again. A beautiful part, though the chords Taylor plays after it (more pregnant in other versions during that tour) are beautiful too. But the counterpoint-like tinkling is great. At the end of the FW 2nd TD-version Jagger says (in my ears at least) "Watch out, son". Imo Jagger himself liked the tinkling but he remembered Keith's attitude/sensibility (the Houston 1st TD "Stop That" by Keith is proof of that sensibility). His friendly warning ("Watch out, son" ) the day before, and especially the way he says it, tells me that Jagger himself had no problem with Taylor's 'noodling' and 'tinkling'. Ultimate proof is the 1973 tour. Well, that's my theory. The Jagger quote up here doesn't refute it.
all right, I just have a different interpretation then. When I hear that part (emphasized on certain recordings), my mind expects the song to resume with Bruce Springsteen leading the band.
Quote
Smokey
My recollection is that Hopkins is the source for this earlier in the tour, and Taylor later mimicked it.
that makes sense, as Nicky could be somewhat of a baroque stylist himself.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: October 10, 2010 03:17
Quote
ccQuote
kleermakerQuote
ccQuote
pmk251
Speaking of TD... At the start of the closing riff Taylor is tinkling those notes.
yes! - while I don't recall hearing the spoken comments you mention, I've long noticed that this section of "Tumbling Dice" seems to have been a problem as far as what taylor should play. The "tinkling" at this point of the number is something that it seems to me he grew more committed to as the tour went on -- I guess despite mick and keith's dislike for it?
I agree with them, the part that goes "da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK" at the end of the "got to roll me" refrains always stands out as inappropriately baroque or dramatic for the Stones ... it sounds like something on Born to Run. It's an example of taylor's true instincts not quite fitting the band, imo.
But they gave him inarguably more room during the 1973 tour. Taylor at that point had grown more committed to the band than ever before. The 1972 tour is an example of Taylor's true instincts extremely well fitting the band, resulting in lifting the band to its ultimate live peak in 1973. Brussels is an example of it.
this is a general theory--do you know the specific part pmk and I are talking about?
Actually a strange question, since I uploaded this very version of TD (FW 2nd) myself, some time ago, on YouTube.
TD is from 4.16 on, the specific part: from about 6.40 until 6.51
Compare that specific part to this specific part of the Brussels TD (also uploaded by myself, not so long ago), from about 2.30 on. Taylor tinkling and noodling all over the place until the final. Well, he wasn't "quite fitting the band"? I don't think so.
It's interesting, isn't it, especially in the light of my little theory up here.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
cc
()
Date: October 10, 2010 07:14
by "strange question," I'll assume you don't mean that we should all be aware of precisely what's in your Youtube archive.
as for the "fit" of the part, it's entirely subjective. To me, it sounds more like a bit from a pop-opera epic by Bruce, maybe even Meat Loaf, rather than an r&b-rock number by the Stones. Just because he keeps playing it doesn't mean it fits. mick eventually gave up on the belt-whipping in "Midnight Rambler." But it's a very minor part, and you hear it differently, so ok.
as for the "fit" of the part, it's entirely subjective. To me, it sounds more like a bit from a pop-opera epic by Bruce, maybe even Meat Loaf, rather than an r&b-rock number by the Stones. Just because he keeps playing it doesn't mean it fits. mick eventually gave up on the belt-whipping in "Midnight Rambler." But it's a very minor part, and you hear it differently, so ok.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
vermontoffender
()
Date: October 10, 2010 09:16
Mick Taylor's soloing increased in direct proportion to Keith's use of heroin. In '72, there are clear examples of Keith being annoyed by Mick Taylor's playing. By '73, not so much. Keith was playing great in '73, but probably less inclined to confront anyone in lieu of an appointment with a needle and/or spoon. Or, it could have something to do with the fact that we don't have a ton of audio and visual footage of '73 in comparison to '72. Maybe he was still pissed at some of what Mick Taylor played, but we just don't have proof of it. I doubt it though, my guess is that Keith retreated further into the world of heroin in '73, and his problems with Mick Taylor's playing become internalized; he held grudges but never verbalized them.
Another way to see it, maybe-
Keith digs Taylor's playing in '72, but some of it bugs him.
Keith takes more and more drugs in '73 and Taylor plays more leads than ever.
In '74, Mick Taylor quits the Rolling Stones.
I'm not sure what puzzle the missing pieces would form, but I've long been a bit wary of Taylor's official explanation about wanting to go off in his own direction. How much more latitude in a band could a lead guitarist have than Mick Taylor did with The Stones in '73?
Another way to see it, maybe-
Keith digs Taylor's playing in '72, but some of it bugs him.
Keith takes more and more drugs in '73 and Taylor plays more leads than ever.
In '74, Mick Taylor quits the Rolling Stones.
I'm not sure what puzzle the missing pieces would form, but I've long been a bit wary of Taylor's official explanation about wanting to go off in his own direction. How much more latitude in a band could a lead guitarist have than Mick Taylor did with The Stones in '73?
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
audun-eg
()
Date: October 10, 2010 14:26
Quote
stones78
There are only 3 guitars on the song, Mick's acoustic in the center, Keith's on the left and Taylor on the right...during the verses Keith plays the fills and Taylor arpegiates the chords, then on the choruses Taylor plays very similar fills and Keith does those "pedal steel-like" bends which he does during Mick's solo too. Mick said he used a Gibson ES-345.
Sounds absolutely right to my ears.
[www.reverbnation.com]
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
straycatblues73
()
Date: October 10, 2010 17:01
Quote
kleermakerQuote
ccQuote
kleermakerQuote
ccQuote
pmk251
Speaking of TD... At the start of the closing riff Taylor is tinkling those notes.
yes! - while I don't recall hearing the spoken comments you mention, I've long noticed that this section of "Tumbling Dice" seems to have been a problem as far as what taylor should play. The "tinkling" at this point of the number is something that it seems to me he grew more committed to as the tour went on -- I guess despite mick and keith's dislike for it?
I agree with them, the part that goes "da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK" at the end of the "got to roll me" refrains always stands out as inappropriately baroque or dramatic for the Stones ... it sounds like something on Born to Run. It's an example of taylor's true instincts not quite fitting the band, imo.
But they gave him inarguably more room during the 1973 tour. Taylor at that point had grown more committed to the band than ever before. The 1972 tour is an example of Taylor's true instincts extremely well fitting the band, resulting in lifting the band to its ultimate live peak in 1973. Brussels is an example of it.
this is a general theory--do you know the specific part pmk and I are talking about?
Of course I do and I listened to it again. A beautiful part, though the chords Taylor plays after it (more pregnant in other versions during that tour) are beautiful too. But the counterpoint-like tinkling is great. At the end of the FW 2nd TD-version Jagger says (in my ears at least) "Watch out, son". Imo Jagger himself liked the tinkling but he remembered Keith's attitude/sensibility (the Houston 1st TD "Stop That" by Keith is proof of that sensibility). t, tells me that Jagger himself had no problem with Taylor's 'noodling' and 'tinkling'. Ultimate proof is the 1973 tour. Well, that's my theory. The Jagger quote up here doesn't refute it.
these comments belong to rehearsals . no one's talent should be limited during performances , it is ridiculous to shout and swear during the show and expect everything to be all right after.
the L&G comment , taylor seems to take no blind bit of notice of keiths comments ( if hey are directed to him , i have my doubts ) and seems oblivious of them,
if keith did shout that ,it is truely atrocious to treat a bandmate like that.
His friendly warning ("Watch out, son" ) we have no video so don't know who he is talking to , could be someone in the audience.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: October 10, 2010 17:02
Quote
cc
by "strange question," I'll assume you don't mean that we should all be aware of precisely what's in your Youtube archive.
Indeed, though I posted many clips in the threads
[www.iorr.org] and
[www.iorr.org]
But that remark was of course fully subjective.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
pmk251
()
Date: October 11, 2010 19:42
I am enjoying the comments on this thread. Thanks for the uploads KM. Yes, that is the Ft. Worth performance I was talking about. It sounds to me like Jagger wants Taylor to give Keith his time at the start of the closing riff, but has no problem with what comes later and the performance as a whole as evidenced by the "Wooh!" at the end. This is a much more interesting performance than the one that made the movie.
And the Brussels TD: My ultimate band on stage moment. I have others, but that one always thrills me.
And, yes, I agree Taylor was often musically linked to what Nicky was playing. TWFNO comes to mind.
And the Brussels TD: My ultimate band on stage moment. I have others, but that one always thrills me.
And, yes, I agree Taylor was often musically linked to what Nicky was playing. TWFNO comes to mind.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: October 11, 2010 20:38
When was it that Keith yelled at Mick to turn down?
The solo on vinyl is so sleazy and fits the song so perfectly. Mick played his more melodic style in the live version. I love both versions, but prefer Mick's. My one quibble with the live version is Mick's chord flourishes during the verses. Whereas Keith is playing the basic, funky, rythmic riff, Mick here is too floral, pretty, busy during the verses when it should just be funky. I like the song as simple and un-melodic as possible, the way it was on record and in 75,77. That's a first for me, because usually, Mick T always lifs the song to another level.
The solo on vinyl is so sleazy and fits the song so perfectly. Mick played his more melodic style in the live version. I love both versions, but prefer Mick's. My one quibble with the live version is Mick's chord flourishes during the verses. Whereas Keith is playing the basic, funky, rythmic riff, Mick here is too floral, pretty, busy during the verses when it should just be funky. I like the song as simple and un-melodic as possible, the way it was on record and in 75,77. That's a first for me, because usually, Mick T always lifs the song to another level.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: October 11, 2010 22:06
Quote
glimmertwin50
In Guitar Player in 1980, Taylor says he played the studio solo on "Dead Flowers". The phrasing indicates it is Taylor. He certainly more freely and fluidly improvised the live solos of this song, but I'm inclined to believe it is Taylor playing this solo in the studio.
I bet it's Taylor.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: October 11, 2010 22:46
Definitely Mick T on Dead Flowers. As glimmertwin said, too fluid for Keith.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
pmk251
()
Date: October 11, 2010 23:28
Quote
stupidguy2
When was it that Keith yelled at Mick to turn down?
quote]
I am talking about the TD performance in the L&G movie. Mid-point in the song at the beginning of the closing riff Keith steps back, looks Taylor's direction and if I am reading his lips correctly says "Stop that!" Then he physically demonstrates what he wants played. Watch it. You will see it.
That is a bit different than the '81 KC show where (as the story goes) Keith told Taylor to turn down the volume.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 11, 2010 23:48
Quote
pmk251Quote
stupidguy2
When was it that Keith yelled at Mick to turn down?
quote]
I am talking about the TD performance in the L&G movie. Mid-point in the song at the beginning of the closing riff Keith steps back, looks Taylor's direction and if I am reading his lips correctly says "Stop that!" Then he physically demonstrates what he wants played. Watch it. You will see it.
That is a bit different than the '81 KC show where (as the story goes) Keith told Taylor to turn down the volume.
It's when Taylor starts noodling these jazzy runs that indeed are a bit misplaced. Keith turns around and yells "stop @#$%& around" to Taylor.
Mathijs
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: October 12, 2010 01:10
Quote
Mathijs
quote]
It's when Taylor starts noodling these jazzy runs that indeed are a bit misplaced. Keith turns around and yells "stop @#$%& around" to Taylor.
Mathijs
But I loved those jazzy runs. Poor Mick.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: October 12, 2010 02:53
Quote
AmsterdamnedQuote
glimmertwin50
In Guitar Player in 1980, Taylor says he played the studio solo on "Dead Flowers". The phrasing indicates it is Taylor. He certainly more freely and fluidly improvised the live solos of this song, but I'm inclined to believe it is Taylor playing this solo in the studio.
I bet it's Taylor.
I bet?? Shame on you this time, A. Of course it's Taylor. A blind horse can hear that. Besides Keith never could play that way.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: October 12, 2010 03:40
I love how Ronnie played the lead/solo in Dead Flowers that's on Stripped.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
filstan
()
Date: October 12, 2010 04:05
I can't believe anyone can think that it's Keith's solo on Dead Flowers. This one isn't even remotely close the way some of the really old songs when Brian was in the band. A for TD its a set em up knock em down Keith solo to my ears. As for SF, its Keith's baby for the versions I've heard and shows I saw.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 12, 2010 10:16
Oops, old thread. Sorry 
Taylor plays the solo on the studio take of Dead Flowers. Keith played countless solos on GS on the B2B-tour.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-12 10:17 by DandelionPowderman.
Quote
71Tele
<< this is maybe the only stones song where keith doesn´t play the guitar solo live, he played in the studio...>>
Dead Flowers
Gimme Shelter
I'm sure there are others...
Taylor plays the solo on the studio take of Dead Flowers. Keith played countless solos on GS on the B2B-tour.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-12 10:17 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
Eleanor Rigby
()
Date: October 12, 2010 10:53
Quote
Tumblin_Dice_07
We've had this discussion about the "Dead Flowers" solo before. It's Taylor. Keith plays some fills, but Taylor plays the solo. Taylor himself says so.
I don't really know why some people think it's Keith. To me, just judging by the style of play, I'm 100% sure it's Taylor.
yep definately Taylor.
Perhaps it's the simplicity that makes people think it's KR >?
Re: "tumbling dice" guitar solo
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 12, 2010 11:17
Quote
kleermakerQuote
ccQuote
pmk251
Speaking of TD... At the start of the closing riff Taylor is tinkling those notes.
yes! - while I don't recall hearing the spoken comments you mention, I've long noticed that this section of "Tumbling Dice" seems to have been a problem as far as what taylor should play. The "tinkling" at this point of the number is something that it seems to me he grew more committed to as the tour went on -- I guess despite mick and keith's dislike for it?
I agree with them, the part that goes "da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK! da-da-PLINK" at the end of the "got to roll me" refrains always stands out as inappropriately baroque or dramatic for the Stones ... it sounds like something on Born to Run. It's an example of taylor's true instincts not quite fitting the band, imo.
But they gave him inarguably more room during the 1973 tour. Taylor at that point had grown more committed to the band than ever before. The 1972 tour is an example of Taylor's true instincts extremely well fitting the band, resulting in lifting the band to its ultimate live peak in 1973. Brussels is an example of it.
How can longer solos and playing, less integrated to the song itself become "more comitted". Musically, he was very much comitted to the band in 1969, imo. He broke a bit loose in 1972 (still sounding marvellous) and took it over the top in 1973 (again imo).
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