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And silence befalls the crowd. You could not have put it better.
CBII
This really sums everything up in a nutshell. Wood is wood, and as long as it's decent wood, it doesn't matter where the guitar is assembled. It really comes down to the electronics, hardware, and set-up. The quality of the pick-ups, pots, wiring, bridges, nuts, saddles, jacks, machine heads/tuners, and set-up all add up to whether or not a guitar sounds good, stays in tune, and is playable. There are countless examples of players taking the cheapest guitar, even entry-level knock-off crap, changing the electronics and hardware, and ending up with an instrument that rivals almost any top of the line guitar. A 150.00 Squier that feels good in your hands + 300.00 in upgrades to the electronics and hardware = a 450.00 guitar that will give almost any 1,000.00+ guitar a run for its money.
There are good and bad exceptions across all price ranges. If you took 10 pre-CBS Strats in good condition and played them all, chances are you would love some of them and hate others, just like you would if you played 10 new Squiers. I'm not saying that Squiers rival pre-CBS Strats, there is something special about the old ones, I'm just saying you probably wouldn't like every one of the vintage Strat's, just like you probably wouldn't hate every Squier. Every guitar is unique to some degree, even two that came off an assembly line one after the other. What feels, plays, and sounds like butter by one player, is thought of as crap by another.
Fully agree. The Antiquity 55 Tele pickup is breathtaking.
Mathijs
All Fender Strat's and Tele's are, and have ever been! In fact, the very first Tele (Broadcaster) bodies could be made out of 6 or 7 pieces, and this never has changed. Check Ron Wood's many Strats -all have 2 or 3 piece bodies, mostly with the joint just off-center. There's several reasons for this, but the main one is that Leo Fender wanted to make a guitar that could be mass produced and was not too expensive (like Gibson). Later on the piecing together of different wood parts was used to optimise weight, optimise pattern, and for strength -a solid block of wood is less strong and more prone to bending and cracking than glued and bookmatched wood.
Mathijs
I know - but still I think this is a shame !
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OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
guitarbastard
()
Date: November 12, 2009 18:21
i'm a gibson guy. played sg's and les pauls (jr.) all my life.
but recently i just really got into that strat sound. (pretty late - i agree) ;-)
now the question: what is the difference between american and japanese strats?
do you prefer maple or palisander fretboards? why?
is it worth to go for a customshop? i tried several americans and japanese...but cant really decide...(mex and squire i dont like)
any inputs are welcome...i know that in the end my ear will decide...but still its always good to have some more knowledge. so strat-maniacs let me know!
thanks alot!
***** i'm a cold italian pizza *****
but recently i just really got into that strat sound. (pretty late - i agree) ;-)
now the question: what is the difference between american and japanese strats?
do you prefer maple or palisander fretboards? why?
is it worth to go for a customshop? i tried several americans and japanese...but cant really decide...(mex and squire i dont like)
any inputs are welcome...i know that in the end my ear will decide...but still its always good to have some more knowledge. so strat-maniacs let me know!
thanks alot!
***** i'm a cold italian pizza *****
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
CBII
()
Date: November 12, 2009 18:53
There really is no major difference I've seen between a Stratocaster make in Fullerton California and ones made in Mexico other than price. Both are made by people from Mexico! Some of the stuff from Mexico sounds just as good and in some cases BETTER than the stuff made in Fullerton. There have been cases where the pickups seem to be of lesser quality than the US stuff but that's what TEXAS Specials are for. The custom shop guitars do seem to have a much higher percentage of consistancy from one guitar to the next. What's really cool about the Fender custom shop is they will build anything you want. Have no idea on the stuff from Japan, never owned anything from there.
My son has a 60th aniversary Stratocaster and with the exception of the Diamond in the headstock looks and sounds like the US made counterpart.
My son has a 60th aniversary Stratocaster and with the exception of the Diamond in the headstock looks and sounds like the US made counterpart.
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: November 12, 2009 19:02
the difference between the two is quality in parts and craftmanship .im not saying there not good (japanese) but different.i prefer maple fingerboards which are brighter sounding(very twangy) than rosewood which has a more warmer and mellow sound rather than the bright and spanky sound of maple (keith and ronnie use mostly maple on there fender guitars ) i also like the fender custom shop guitars they are built with more attention to the little details as opposed to the mass prouduced factory fenders and also use better pickups and some of the hardware .i myself own two us vintage reissue guitars a 1993 us 57 reissue two tone (alder) sunburst strat mapleboard with fender fat 50 pickups,and a 1993 us 52 reissue (ash)butterscotch tele with mapleboard with fender texas special pickups and i also own a 1998 fender custom shop us 54 reissue aztec gold strat with a birdseye maple neck .the neck on the custom shop strat is thick like a baseball bat and that does make a difference with the sound .more fancy necks on the high end custom shop guitars with the thinskin aztec gold finish which makes the guitar have better tone because the ash body is more resonant .Mathijs am i leaving something out that you could mention maybe?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-12 19:07 by The Greek.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-12 19:07 by The Greek.
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
teleblaster
()
Date: November 12, 2009 19:08
The main difference between US and Japanese Strats is, I understand, the quality of the hardware, i.e., pickups, tuners, etc. Quality from both countries, however, has fluctuated over the years and your ears and wallet are probably the best guide. When Squiers were introduced in the early 80's, they were IMHO better than the US strats (and teles) at the time.
Palisander is a type of rosewood I believe. A rosewood board on a Strat gives a darker tone than maple which is crisper. This is a sweeping generalisation, though. Being a Gibson guy, you would probably prefer the feel of a rosewood board. Maple boards can be slippy if you sweat a lot when you play - fine for funky rhythms, but annoying when a string bend goes wrong because of it. Less slippy on an old worn neck or a Relic sanded down to the wood, though.
The range of Strats on the market is dazzling now and price can be a big factor in deciding. Like you, I don't like current Squiers, but I've played some Mexican Fenders which were surprisingly tasty (to my ears / eyes / hands). If you must have a nitro finish, then you're looking at a U.S. reissue or going down the custom shop route. Remember they will probably have a polyester coat under the nitro, though. If you REALLY know what you want, then you'll find a custom shop guitar to suit. If you're unsure I would recommend buying a decent US Strat - perhaps second hand - and see how you get on with it. A Vintage reissue or US standard would be fine. Over time you will find what you like and dislike about it and, if you feel the need, can move up to a custom shop. Like Gibsons, US Strats hold their value pretty well.
That's my take on it, anyway. Hope it helps.
Palisander is a type of rosewood I believe. A rosewood board on a Strat gives a darker tone than maple which is crisper. This is a sweeping generalisation, though. Being a Gibson guy, you would probably prefer the feel of a rosewood board. Maple boards can be slippy if you sweat a lot when you play - fine for funky rhythms, but annoying when a string bend goes wrong because of it. Less slippy on an old worn neck or a Relic sanded down to the wood, though.
The range of Strats on the market is dazzling now and price can be a big factor in deciding. Like you, I don't like current Squiers, but I've played some Mexican Fenders which were surprisingly tasty (to my ears / eyes / hands). If you must have a nitro finish, then you're looking at a U.S. reissue or going down the custom shop route. Remember they will probably have a polyester coat under the nitro, though. If you REALLY know what you want, then you'll find a custom shop guitar to suit. If you're unsure I would recommend buying a decent US Strat - perhaps second hand - and see how you get on with it. A Vintage reissue or US standard would be fine. Over time you will find what you like and dislike about it and, if you feel the need, can move up to a custom shop. Like Gibsons, US Strats hold their value pretty well.
That's my take on it, anyway. Hope it helps.
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
ChrisM
()
Date: November 12, 2009 19:55
I have owned both a Corona made and Japanese made '57 reissue Stratocasters and had a chance to play both of them side by side. (Fellow IORRian mcparty now owns the Corona Strat) and I found I liked the Japanese Strat a little better as the pickups had a little more fullness to my ears. The pots in both though were linear tapers (Why oh why does Fender, Gibson, et al use these?) rather than audio tapers so I'm planning to switch mine out. I have also observed that the Japanese Strats are a little less expensive than their American counterparts. I got mine for ~ $350.00 off ebay. As to the Mexican made Strats, I have found the them to be serviceable but at times not as well made as those made here and in Japan. The pickup selector on the one I played was a bit dodgy and pickups were a bit underwound, i.e., low output, to my ears. Ultimately, what you might want to do is play a few and buy the one that sounds and feels best to you but then I'm sure that has already crossed your mind.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-12 21:25 by ChrisM.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-12 21:25 by ChrisM.
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
RobberBride
()
Date: November 12, 2009 20:41
If you´re into Strats, I suggest the book "The Stratocaster Chronicles" by Tom Wheeler, which is packed with info and nice images from the early models upto present.
Also by the same author, "The Soul of Tone" has Fender amps as topic. Recommended!
RB
Also by the same author, "The Soul of Tone" has Fender amps as topic. Recommended!
RB
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: November 12, 2009 20:52
My very personal view on the matter is the following.
If you don't care for the brand, buy the neck and body from Warmoth or similar manufacturers, buy some good pick ups and hardware, and have everything assembled by a liuther. With more or less 1000 USD you have a great guitar.
If you want the Fender trademark, go to a store where they have lots of Strats and chose the one you like best (woods and finishes). Then change pick ups. It is not hard to find lower level Fenders (american, mex, jap) that have better woods and finishes of the much more expensive Custom Shops.
C
If you don't care for the brand, buy the neck and body from Warmoth or similar manufacturers, buy some good pick ups and hardware, and have everything assembled by a liuther. With more or less 1000 USD you have a great guitar.
If you want the Fender trademark, go to a store where they have lots of Strats and chose the one you like best (woods and finishes). Then change pick ups. It is not hard to find lower level Fenders (american, mex, jap) that have better woods and finishes of the much more expensive Custom Shops.
C
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
izzyanderson
()
Date: November 12, 2009 21:15
One day I hope to afford a pre-CBS Fender.
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
ChrisM
()
Date: November 12, 2009 21:27
Which model and year were you thinking off Izzy?Quote
@#$%&
One day I hope to afford a pre-CBS Fender.
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: November 12, 2009 21:38
"It is not hard to find lower level Fenders (american, mex, jap) that have better woods and finishes of the much more expensive Custom Shops."
Really? Sounds crazy to (a newbie like) me
Really? Sounds crazy to (a newbie like) me
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: November 12, 2009 21:41
ya gotta take like a second mortgage .the prices on vintage pre cbs fenders is thru the roof .think over $10,000 .better off getting a custom shop model for under $5,000 .the beauty part of that is that you can get what you want made .you just gotta wait for it unless you find the one you want .Quote
@#$%&
One day I hope to afford a pre-CBS Fender.
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
izzyanderson
()
Date: November 12, 2009 21:47
I'm not really a Fender-kinda guy, but if I had the money to throw around, I would purchase a late 50s black strat to add to my ES-335 and Gretsch White Falcon (both of which I don't currently own but dream about)
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
CBII
()
Date: November 12, 2009 22:55
Quote
@#$%&
One day I hope to afford a pre-CBS Fender.
And silence befalls the crowd. You could not have put it better.
CBII
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
ChrisM
()
Date: November 12, 2009 22:59
Hey Izzy. Are you thinking Clapton's "Blackie"? That one is a composite of different Strats and the body was refinished to a deep brown if I remember rightly. I don't think black was a colour option for Strats until '62 to '63 when many custom colours became available. I hear you about the ES-335 and Gretsch. I've played a few example of both and used to own a 335 many years back. Anyway, the next best thing to an original Strat is custom shop reissue as the Greek mentioned. Have fun and play on!
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
thumbprint
()
Date: November 12, 2009 23:34
I have a G&L Legacy USA Strat that a deceased friend gave me. What's the deal with this guitar? It's beautiful.
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
guitarbastard
()
Date: November 12, 2009 23:52
wow, amazing!
thanks alot guys for all your interesting infos. really appreciate!
surprised that the mexicans get a good "feedback" here. played some and compared to an us-standard they just really lacked tone, warmth and "volume".
but i have to try more maybe. the custom-shop stuff is quite expensive though and since my main guitars probably will stay gibsons and i just like to have a nice strat as an additional instrument, i probably just try to find a good us-standard...maple or rosewood? hmmm...have to listen. for the feel i prefer rosewood..
again, thanks alot guys. further infos still welcome!
***** i'm a cold italian pizza *****
thanks alot guys for all your interesting infos. really appreciate!
surprised that the mexicans get a good "feedback" here. played some and compared to an us-standard they just really lacked tone, warmth and "volume".
but i have to try more maybe. the custom-shop stuff is quite expensive though and since my main guitars probably will stay gibsons and i just like to have a nice strat as an additional instrument, i probably just try to find a good us-standard...maple or rosewood? hmmm...have to listen. for the feel i prefer rosewood..
again, thanks alot guys. further infos still welcome!
***** i'm a cold italian pizza *****
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
From4tilLate
()
Date: November 13, 2009 00:53
I love my 1993 Japanese '57 reissue. I played Mexicans and Japanese and - at the time - there was no comparison. I put EMG strat vintage ones in in early '94 and it's my main guitar, surpassing my tele, now.
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
boogie69
()
Date: November 13, 2009 03:48
Quote
I found I liked the Japanese Strat a little better as the pickups had a little more fullness to my ears. The pots in both though were linear tapers
This really sums everything up in a nutshell. Wood is wood, and as long as it's decent wood, it doesn't matter where the guitar is assembled. It really comes down to the electronics, hardware, and set-up. The quality of the pick-ups, pots, wiring, bridges, nuts, saddles, jacks, machine heads/tuners, and set-up all add up to whether or not a guitar sounds good, stays in tune, and is playable. There are countless examples of players taking the cheapest guitar, even entry-level knock-off crap, changing the electronics and hardware, and ending up with an instrument that rivals almost any top of the line guitar. A 150.00 Squier that feels good in your hands + 300.00 in upgrades to the electronics and hardware = a 450.00 guitar that will give almost any 1,000.00+ guitar a run for its money.
There are good and bad exceptions across all price ranges. If you took 10 pre-CBS Strats in good condition and played them all, chances are you would love some of them and hate others, just like you would if you played 10 new Squiers. I'm not saying that Squiers rival pre-CBS Strats, there is something special about the old ones, I'm just saying you probably wouldn't like every one of the vintage Strat's, just like you probably wouldn't hate every Squier. Every guitar is unique to some degree, even two that came off an assembly line one after the other. What feels, plays, and sounds like butter by one player, is thought of as crap by another.
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
StratoGR
()
Date: November 13, 2009 08:07
So it worths to have a mexican strat and upgrade it?I have a mexican strat that I really love and everybody tells me that sounds and feel fantastic, but I was thinking to give it away for the american version.It worths to change some things on the guitar little by little?
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
ChrisM
()
Date: November 13, 2009 08:30
If it sounds good to you, that's what matters. Having said that, changing the control pots is one of the best things you can do for a stock MIM or MIJ Fender and some USA models as well.Quote
StratoGR
So it worths to have a mexican strat and upgrade it?I have a mexican strat that I really love and everybody tells me that sounds and feel fantastic, but I was thinking to give it away for the american version.It worths to change some things on the guitar little by little?
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: November 13, 2009 08:35
The difference is def. quality. If you leave a not US-made strat in a cold house over the winterseason the jap. or mex strat is out of business.
2 1 2 0
2 1 2 0
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: November 13, 2009 12:30
The key issue to a guitar are wood quality, quality of components and workmanship.
Top tier is, of course, the custom shop. Their quality of wood is much better (lighter and more resonant) than the others (this goes for Gibson CS too).
US Fender's tend to have better quality components than Mexican Fender, but the wood is about the same (which I find too heavy and dead sounding since a year or five). Workmandship (fret ends, neck profile) generally is better on a US Fender.
Japanese Fender have the best wood (although it is not always "classic" Fender wood), the best workmanship, but the components aren't really any good. Bridges are sheet metal, frets are stainless steel, pickups are cheap and lifeless, pegheads can be flimsy. Fender Japan is aware of this, and launched an export line of Japanese instruments with US parts. These are sometimes sold as being from the Japan CS shop, but they aren't.
I prefer CS and Japanese Fenders over US and Mexican. CS Fender's simply are the best, but have one draw-back to me -I don't like sticky nitro on the back of the neck, and most have the old 7.25" radius that I just don't like.
The Japanese Fender guitars are superbly made, with a very thing coating of satin poly on the neck, which is excellent. I replaced all hardware on my Custm Tele with vintage pickups, pots and bridge, and you then have a million dollar guitar.
Mathijs
Top tier is, of course, the custom shop. Their quality of wood is much better (lighter and more resonant) than the others (this goes for Gibson CS too).
US Fender's tend to have better quality components than Mexican Fender, but the wood is about the same (which I find too heavy and dead sounding since a year or five). Workmandship (fret ends, neck profile) generally is better on a US Fender.
Japanese Fender have the best wood (although it is not always "classic" Fender wood), the best workmanship, but the components aren't really any good. Bridges are sheet metal, frets are stainless steel, pickups are cheap and lifeless, pegheads can be flimsy. Fender Japan is aware of this, and launched an export line of Japanese instruments with US parts. These are sometimes sold as being from the Japan CS shop, but they aren't.
I prefer CS and Japanese Fenders over US and Mexican. CS Fender's simply are the best, but have one draw-back to me -I don't like sticky nitro on the back of the neck, and most have the old 7.25" radius that I just don't like.
The Japanese Fender guitars are superbly made, with a very thing coating of satin poly on the neck, which is excellent. I replaced all hardware on my Custm Tele with vintage pickups, pots and bridge, and you then have a million dollar guitar.
Mathijs
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
NickB
()
Date: November 13, 2009 14:40
I have 2 US Strats one made in 1988 and a VG Strat made in 2007. Both guitars are of good quality and play well. The VG strat I bought because I play in a cover band and it covers all bases reasonably well. The 1988 Strat is the love of my life which I recently upgraded with a set of Bareknuckle Slowhands.
Back to the original question well as long as it plays well who cares where it's made as long as it plays well and is well put together.
NickB
You can't always get what you want.....
www.myspace.com/thesonkings
Back to the original question well as long as it plays well who cares where it's made as long as it plays well and is well put together.
NickB
You can't always get what you want.....
www.myspace.com/thesonkings
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
guitarbastard
()
Date: November 13, 2009 19:03
thanks again. @mathijs: what kind of (vintage) pickups you recommend? i'm also thinking of puting on a humbucker / hotrail for the heavier stuff..
so any pickup suggestions? thanks for your time!
***** i'm a cold italian pizza *****
so any pickup suggestions? thanks for your time!
***** i'm a cold italian pizza *****
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
ChrisM
()
Date: November 13, 2009 19:41
I recall Mathijs stating he liked Seymour Duncan Antiquities and I can second that endorsement. (Though I have not tried the Strat version, only Gibson humbuckers which are great!) For control pots and caps, I would recommend the the stuff put out by RS Guitar Works. They really woke my Les Paul and gave me much more control over the volume and tone. 
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
gwen
()
Date: November 13, 2009 20:35
I own a custom shop '56 Relic Strat which looks like a Mary Kaye (white blonde, gold hardware) - got it quite cheap on ebay. It was my first CS and i was amazed by the low weight, the quality of assembly and by how the thing vibrates from head to toe, up the strap, even with the strap locks on... A shame though that the body is made of two parts.
I now also own Gibson CS SG & LP Jr, and these things just vibrate as much as the Strat. I'd say that quality of CS guitars is probably more even than that of "mass-produced" guitars (even though) - and that, while some mass-produced guitars can turn out to be exceptional, the better wood pieces are kept for CS factories.
Funny thing is, I chose to concentrate on the Strat instead of bidding on a '90s Greco copy of Ronnie's Disc Front which is now owned by french Stones fan Haristone...
I now also own Gibson CS SG & LP Jr, and these things just vibrate as much as the Strat. I'd say that quality of CS guitars is probably more even than that of "mass-produced" guitars (even though) - and that, while some mass-produced guitars can turn out to be exceptional, the better wood pieces are kept for CS factories.
Funny thing is, I chose to concentrate on the Strat instead of bidding on a '90s Greco copy of Ronnie's Disc Front which is now owned by french Stones fan Haristone...
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: November 13, 2009 23:55
Quote
ChrisM
I recall Mathijs stating he liked Seymour Duncan Antiquities and I can second that endorsement. (Though I have not tried the Strat version, only Gibson humbuckers which are great!) For control pots and caps, I would recommend the the stuff put out by RS Guitar Works. They really woke my Les Paul and gave me much more control over the volume and tone.
Fully agree. The Antiquity 55 Tele pickup is breathtaking.
Mathijs
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: November 14, 2009 00:00
Quote
gwen
A shame though that the body is made of two parts.
All Fender Strat's and Tele's are, and have ever been! In fact, the very first Tele (Broadcaster) bodies could be made out of 6 or 7 pieces, and this never has changed. Check Ron Wood's many Strats -all have 2 or 3 piece bodies, mostly with the joint just off-center. There's several reasons for this, but the main one is that Leo Fender wanted to make a guitar that could be mass produced and was not too expensive (like Gibson). Later on the piecing together of different wood parts was used to optimise weight, optimise pattern, and for strength -a solid block of wood is less strong and more prone to bending and cracking than glued and bookmatched wood.
Mathijs
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
gwen
()
Date: November 14, 2009 18:14
Quote
Mathijs
All Fender Strat's and Tele's are, and have ever been! In fact, the very first Tele (Broadcaster) bodies could be made out of 6 or 7 pieces, and this never has changed.
I know - but still I think this is a shame !
Re: OT: question for strat experts
Posted by:
RockinBud
()
Date: November 16, 2009 20:14
Quote
liddas
If you don't care for the brand, buy the neck and body from Warmoth or similar manufacturers, buy some good pick ups and hardware, and have everything assembled by a liuther. With more or less 1000 USD you have a great guitar.
Ditto liddas, I have a 50th anniv strat w CS pups, Im pleased with it but am mostly a tele player, I have a 52 CS blackface that takes my breath away..try
www.MJTagedfinishes,com. I bought a tele custom body on ebuy for $330 the neck from MJT just the way I wanted it for $300 a pickup from SeymourDuncan custom shop for $140...tuners and some hardware and for less than a grand you can get IMO a CS type guitar.
RockinBud
www.myspace.com/rockinbuds
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