After listening to probably 90% of all Stones stuff out there and released, and being a guitar player I have to concur that Keith's best sound setup is with that Mesa Boogie Mark I that he used from 76 or 77 on to the Winos period... where the heck is that amp? I don't like the Fender Twins...

KEITH YOU NEED TO MAKE A CHANGE.

[homepage.mac.com]

Mathijs

Great link Mathijs

I agree about his sound in the late 70s.It is rivaled onlt by his late 67-71 period. I believe he was palying though Ampegs at the time. His sound in 69 was very heavy.

In the late 70s, I feel his sound was really dirty, dry, and yet clean. I have been trying to replicate that sound through my Texas Red Blues Junior and my Squier Tele Custom. I've tried using a distortion and/or overdrive pedal and I can;t seem to replicate that cutting sound that he has on say...Rooster from Love You Live.

I am having a little success using a Reverend Club King RT running through the Blues Junior and Dano overdrive.

What have you all tried?

Where did you get hold of you Mesa Mathijs?
Fleabay?
I´d love to get hold of one!!!

RB

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Cafaro
Great link Mathijs

I agree about his sound in the late 70s.It is rivaled onlt by his late 67-71 period. I believe he was palying though Ampegs at the time. His sound in 69 was very heavy.

In the late 70s, I feel his sound was really dirty, dry, and yet clean. I have been trying to replicate that sound through my Texas Red Blues Junior and my Squier Tele Custom. I've tried using a distortion and/or overdrive pedal and I can;t seem to replicate that cutting sound that he has on say...Rooster from Love You Live.

I am having a little success using a Reverend Club King RT running through the Blues Junior and Dano overdrive.

What have you all tried?

I use an Ampeg reverbrocket R12 and wet it with an Mxr Analog Delay and a Fulltone Full Drive 2 Mofet pedal... remember half the sound is on the fingers. hehehe

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RobberBride
Where did you get hold of you Mesa Mathijs?
Fleabay?
I´d love to get hold of one!!!

RB

I got mine through a German collector of all Boogie. He had purchased a hard wood MkI from late 76, and sold his early '77 MkI to me.

It was only later that I found out that Keith's Boogie was A804 from February '77, and mine is A808, also from February '77. According to Randall Smith (owner and founder of Boogie) he build 10 amps in one go, all 100/60 watt Mk1's with reverb, EQ and Altec Lansing speaker, five in hard wood and five in black tolex. He shipped four hard wood Mk1's to the Stones in Canada for the El Mocambo gig, 1 hard wood to an unnamed but known guitarist, and the five tolex Mk1's where shipped to Germany, which at the time was the sole importer of Boogie's in Europe.

My Boogie just absolutely nails the '77 - '83 and first solo tour Richards tone. If you play the first four bars of Respectable you'd swear it's a record playing. Personally I think much of it can be attributed to the speaker. The Altec Lansing is a Alnico speaker very much like the JBL-120 speakers, and these are really high fidelity speakers. They're bright, punky, aggressive but smooth, and very percussive. The amp and speaker just beg for a Telecaster or just single coils for that matter. With humbuckers you have to take care of the gain, as it can sound a bit too much like hard rock.

These Boogie MK1's are quite rare and sought after -when you see one buy it!

Mathijs

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Mathijs
I got mine through a German collector of all Boogie. He had purchased a hard wood MkI from late 76, and sold his early '77 MkI to me.

Wow, great story!
The Mesa is hereby on the wishlist.
After the Widerange humbuckers that is. (Yesterday I was outbid on a original pair by ten stupid dollars...Irritating!)

RB

I don't agree to Keith's sound beeing the best in the seventies, as I love the clear ring of his Fenders, but for those who love it, take a look at this:
[www.catalinbread.com]

and













[www.reverbnation.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-29 10:35 by audun-eg.

It's interesting, from a novice point of view, to see Twin Fenders mentioned here. After seeing Chuck Berry a couple weeks ago, I inquired about having him come out to play a Charity concert I'm involved with in Sacramento next Momorial Day. I spoke to the guy who owns BlueBerry Hill and he said one requirement is to have Twin Fender Amps. I'm assuming Chuck using these came before Keith, but I wonder when did Keith pick this up? Was it before, after or during his time with Chuck during Hail Hail RnR?

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Mathijs

Quote
RobberBride
Where did you get hold of you Mesa Mathijs?
Fleabay?
I´d love to get hold of one!!!

RB

I got mine through a German collector of all Boogie. He had purchased a hard wood MkI from late 76, and sold his early '77 MkI to me.

It was only later that I found out that Keith's Boogie was A804 from February '77, and mine is A808, also from February '77. According to Randall Smith (owner and founder of Boogie) he build 10 amps in one go, all 100/60 watt Mk1's with reverb, EQ and Altec Lansing speaker, five in hard wood and five in black tolex. He shipped four hard wood Mk1's to the Stones in Canada for the El Mocambo gig, 1 hard wood to an unnamed but known guitarist, and the five tolex Mk1's where shipped to Germany, which at the time was the sole importer of Boogie's in Europe.

My Boogie just absolutely nails the '77 - '83 and first solo tour Richards tone. If you play the first four bars of Respectable you'd swear it's a record playing. Personally I think much of it can be attributed to the speaker. The Altec Lansing is a Alnico speaker very much like the JBL-120 speakers, and these are really high fidelity speakers. They're bright, punky, aggressive but smooth, and very percussive. The amp and speaker just beg for a Telecaster or just single coils for that matter. With humbuckers you have to take care of the gain, as it can sound a bit too much like hard rock.

These Boogie MK1's are quite rare and sought after -when you see one buy it!

Mathijs

Hi Mathijs , i`ve seen several Boogies from late `70s for sale on ebay.But there is a problem with voltage mismatch.It seems that it`s neccesery to swap power transformer with european 210-230 volt.I haven`t found proper substitute on Mercury Magnetic page>What do you think about it?

Btw during Voodoo Lounge American Tour Keith had rather clean , narrow sound , the worst from modern era i think but Bigger Bang Tour it`s another story - fully cranked High Powered Twin - dense , greasy natural overdrive remains fat and rebelious sound from 1969.I love his Mesa sound too but the best Stones guitars are placed on Tatto You - guess which guitars are from which era? Guitars on Tops - are they from overdubs 77-79 or from 73 ? Slave - in my opinion the main riff is played on Mesa Boogie ....Mysterious album full of enigmas....Another fantastic example of keiths sound is Black and Blue - Hand of Fate and Hey Negrita - Ampegs and humbuckers in full glory....

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benon again
Btw during Voodoo Lounge American Tour Keith had rather clean , narrow sound , the worst from modern era i think but Bigger Bang Tour it`s another story - fully cranked High Powered Twin - dense , greasy natural overdrive remains fat and rebelious sound from 1969.I love his Mesa sound too but the best Stones guitars are placed on Tatto You - guess which guitars are from which era? Guitars on Tops - are they from overdubs 77-79 or from 73 ? Slave - in my opinion the main riff is played on Mesa Boogie ....Mysterious album full of enigmas....Another fantastic example of keiths sound is Black and Blue - Hand of Fate and Hey Negrita - Ampegs and humbuckers in full glory....

Speaking of modern era, does anybody else like Keith's sound from the Bridges tour? It's my favorite later period sound. I thought the warhorses especially - namely JJFlash and Brown Sugar - had a nice balance of briteness and grit. I hated the clean sound on the Voodoo tour, and thought Steel Wheels had an effecty-sound (not sure if he was using a phase or what), but I still dig the 97-99 tour sound. Licks had its merits I think. Bigger Bang, well, it was hard to tell as the guy barely seemed to be playing.

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chelskeith

It's interesting, from a novice point of view, to see Twin Fenders mentioned here. After seeing Chuck Berry a couple weeks ago, I inquired about having him come out to play a Charity concert I'm involved with in Sacramento next Momorial Day. I spoke to the guy who owns BlueBerry Hill and he said one requirement is to have Twin Fender Amps. I'm assuming Chuck using these came before Keith, but I wonder when did Keith pick this up? Was it before, after or during his time with Chuck during Hail Hail RnR?

Keith has had a variety of amplification over the years but Mesa Boogie and Fender Twins have always had their place on stage since around 72-ish. The Mesa's are tone kings to be certain however, they had a iffy run for several years in the 80's. I'm going to sound like a jerk but basically the quality of Fender Amps in the 70's were spotty at best. That was during CBS' reign of terror on Fender. They went for volume and to hell with tone. I agree with the observation of the Ampeg years. Ampeg made some excellent Amps during the period up to 70 - 71. I don't know what happened on the guitar side but the BASS amps still seems to be wonderful equipment. Keith managed to kick out some great tone with all the equipment over the years, however the Fender twins, do sound kinda bland. That Mesa and Ampeg stuff is the sound to look for IMO. Just fantastic tone.

Sorry for this off topic insert folks but ChelsKeith needs this sidebar information.

The Fender Twin, Fender Twin Reverb and Dual Showman Head / Dual Showman Reverb Head with Twin Speakers are different animals my man. The first two are all in one AMPS (Amplification and Speakers in one unit). They provide high volume but tend to clip with driven really hard (volume set at 7 with a guitar with really high output pickups and or high gain effects). By far the twin and twin reverb are the most popular amp supplied by back line providers. They can be crystal clear when setup properly and can take a great deal of punishment. The Dual Showman and Dual Showman Reverb are just Amplification HEADS only. My favorite of two models are the black face Dual Showman. The REAL combo for either of the two heads is one of the loudest guitar speaker cabinets ever made. The Dual Showman cabinet at it's pinnacle of greatness will have two count them two 15" JBL D130-F loudspeakers. The cabinets produce so much low end they could double as cabinets for a bass guitar. They have enough high end to be respectable. With effects peddles or with out, at volume the front row of the audience will not be able to tolerate the volume and will involuntarily turn and RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY!

Joe sort of gave you the wrong information. It is true Chuck Berry uses twin Fender Amps BUT the term TWIN can be confusing. If you are going to get Chuck Berry on stage make sure the AMPS are Fender Dual Showman Reverb Heads with DualShowman cabinets. The cabinets MUST have two 15" JBL D-130F speakers each.

CBII

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CBII

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chelskeith

It's interesting, from a novice point of view, to see Twin Fenders mentioned here. After seeing Chuck Berry a couple weeks ago, I inquired about having him come out to play a Charity concert I'm involved with in Sacramento next Momorial Day. I spoke to the guy who owns BlueBerry Hill and he said one requirement is to have Twin Fender Amps. I'm assuming Chuck using these came before Keith, but I wonder when did Keith pick this up? Was it before, after or during his time with Chuck during Hail Hail RnR?

Keith has had a variety of amplification over the years but Mesa Boogie and Fender Twins have always had their place on stage since around 72-ish. The Mesa's are tone kings to be certain however, they had a iffy run for several years in the 80's. I'm going to sound like a jerk but basically the quality of Fender Amps in the 70's were spotty at best. That was during CBS' reign of terror on Fender. They went for volume and to hell with tone. I agree with the observation of the Ampeg years. Ampeg made some excellent Amps during the period up to 70 - 71. I don't know what happened on the guitar side but the BASS amps still seems to be wonderful equipment. Keith managed to kick out some great tone with all the equipment over the years, however the Fender twins, do sound kinda bland. That Mesa and Ampeg stuff is the sound to look for IMO. Just fantastic tone.

Sorry for this off topic insert folks but ChelsKeith needs this sidebar information.

The Fender Twin, Fender Twin Reverb and Dual Showman Head / Dual Showman Reverb Head with Twin Speakers are different animals my man. The first two are all in one AMPS (Amplification and Speakers in one unit). They provide high volume but tend to clip with driven really hard (volume set at 7 with a guitar with really high output pickups and or high gain effects). By far the twin and twin reverb are the most popular amp supplied by back line providers. They can be crystal clear when setup properly and can take a great deal of punishment. The Dual Showman and Dual Showman Reverb are just Amplification HEADS only. My favorite of two models are the black face Dual Showman. The REAL combo for either of the two heads is one of the loudest guitar speaker cabinets ever made. The Dual Showman cabinet at it's pinnacle of greatness will have two count them two 15" JBL D130-F loudspeakers. The cabinets produce so much low end they could double as cabinets for a bass guitar. They have enough high end to be respectable. With effects peddles or with out, at volume the front row of the audience will not be able to tolerate the volume and will involuntarily turn and RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY!

Joe sort of gave you the wrong information. It is true Chuck Berry uses twin Fender Amps BUT the term TWIN can be confusing. If you are going to get Chuck Berry on stage make sure the AMPS are Fender Dual Showman Reverb Heads with DualShowman cabinets. The cabinets MUST have two 15" JBL D-130F speakers each.

CBII, I thought I read (or maybe saw in the Hail Hail Rock n Roll movie) that Chuck insisted on a Fender Bassman amp for all shows. Am I imagining that, or did he use those for a time?

CBII,

Thanks for the clarification, and the education. It's greatly appreciated.

If all works well, maybe I'll get to see those babies in person. Joe said a guy who hired you guys in New Mexico bought them and may rent them to me, if I can make this happen.

I'll be in touch.

BV- BTW, this site is so awesome for information like this. Thanks so much for all you do. For a father trying to support his kids passion, I can't tell you how much the info I'm learning here has been helping me.

Best,

John

I have a Mesa from the early '80s and an Ampeg V-4 from the early '70s.
Both can get that classic "Keith" sound.
However, when I slaved the Mesa through the Ampeg (like the 1978 tour),
that's when you really get incredible tones.
Not volume, but tone.
Unfortunatly, I can't fit everything in a Mini Cooper.

Add my thanks too!

What I love about these threads is that they usually turn out in master classes on r'n'r tone!

C

I prefer his Ampeg sound shared wit Taylor.. Balls!!

Agreed. Love that sound from Ya-ya's, Paris '70, Leeds '71 etc.

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Amsterdamned
I prefer his Ampeg sound shared wit Taylor.. Balls!!

imo the best sound ever from keith is in this video. it´s very similar to his 1993 sound.

starts at 58 seconds





by the way, does anyone know from where this 89 version is?

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tomk
I have a Mesa from the early '80s and an Ampeg V-4 from the early '70s.
Both can get that classic "Keith" sound.
However, when I slaved the Mesa through the Ampeg (like the 1978 tour),
that's when you really get incredible tones.
Not volume, but tone.
Unfortunatly, I can't fit everything in a Mini Cooper.

I've only been playing guitar for 6 months or so. How did you go about slaving the amps? was it a matter of plugging one into the other?

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Cafaro

Quote
tomk
I have a Mesa from the early '80s and an Ampeg V-4 from the early '70s.
Both can get that classic "Keith" sound.
However, when I slaved the Mesa through the Ampeg (like the 1978 tour),
that's when you really get incredible tones.
Not volume, but tone.
Unfortunatly, I can't fit everything in a Mini Cooper.

I've only been playing guitar for 6 months or so. How did you go about slaving the amps? was it a matter of plugging one into the other?

You can use line out or preamp out (send from efx loop) for use of second amp`s power section.I don`t know if they used this way - simpliest way is using big speaker cabinet from Ampeg instead of speaker installed in Mesa Boogie combo.Maybe Keith prefered Ampeg power secion (el34`s instead of 6L6 from Boogie).

ok....I would like to try "playing around". i have a Fender Texas red Blues Junior and this little vintage amp and I was wondering how to slave them.

Also...I have the chance to acquire an Ampeg Reverberocket R212R for $399.00 USD

It is in great (not mint) condition. I am not sure of the year. I have a pic but I don't know how to get it on here. What are your thoughts on the price?

I've slaved my Fender Champ to my Fender Super by plugging in to channel 1 and going out of channel 2 to channel 1 of the right side of the Supe (either will work, of course).

I've done the same from my Hot Rod to my Supe.

I got sick of lugging the Supe around and have just been playing with the Hot Rod for a while now. A hell of a lot lighter and a more middle of the road sound.

As it is, I've read that Keith has used Champs for a lot of studio work. Live, of course, he uses Twins and Mesas (and Ampegs and whatever else a while ago). The beauty of a Fender amp is you can slave anything into it, like Keith did with the Marshall head, and it sounds fantastic. I use a Marshall Guv'nor distortion pedal for the big leads, ha ha, and the Hot Rod's distortion for heavy rhythm parts.

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benon again
I love his Mesa sound too but the best Stones guitars are placed on Tatto You - guess which guitars are from which era? Guitars on Tops - are they from overdubs 77-79 or from 73 ? Slave - in my opinion the main riff is played on Mesa Boogie ....Mysterious album full of enigmas....Another fantastic example of keiths sound is Black and Blue - Hand of Fate and Hey Negrita - Ampegs and humbuckers in full glory....

On the '73 to '81 albums there aren't a lot of Ampegs too be found -they're all way too big for recording. 90% of what you hear on those albums are small Fender amps and the Boogie Mk 1. Tattoo you is for 80% Boogie Mk 1, including (in my opinion) Slave.

Mathijs

Quote
benon again
Hi Mathijs , i`ve seen several Boogies from late `70s for sale on ebay.But there is a problem with voltage mismatch.It seems that it`s neccesery to swap power transformer with european 210-230 volt.I haven`t found proper substitute on Mercury Magnetic page>What do you think about it?

75% of all Boogie's have a voltage selector switch installed, they are what you call "international model" amps. If it is not installed, there's two things you can do: send the amp to Mesa/Boogie and they can install it, or buy a transformer for $20.

Never change the transformer of your amp: the amp will sound different, and you will devaluate it by half.

Mathijs

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Cafaro

Quote
tomk
I have a Mesa from the early '80s and an Ampeg V-4 from the early '70s.
Both can get that classic "Keith" sound.
However, when I slaved the Mesa through the Ampeg (like the 1978 tour),
that's when you really get incredible tones.
Not volume, but tone.
Unfortunatly, I can't fit everything in a Mini Cooper.

I've only been playing guitar for 6 months or so. How did you go about slaving the amps? was it a matter of plugging one into the other?

You can slave an amp when it has a "slave" or "power amp out" junction, and the receiving amp needs a "power amp" input. What you want to do is take the output signal of the pre-amp from the to-be-slaved amp, and feed it to the power section of another amp.

There are other ways, but these yield lesser results: you can "jump" inputs by jumping input 2 of a Fender amp to the 1 input of a second amp. Basically you now have two amps running, but this this yields bad sounding results as you lower the impedance of your guitar by half. You can also use the "send" juntion of the effects loop, or even the speaker output of an amp, but this doesn't sound as good as the actual tone of your amp: the send and speaker outputs are filtered and buffered approximations of the transformers' output.

Mathijs

Thank you ! I really appreciate your help.

Here is that Boogie in action... I wonder if that tele has both pickups going at the same time... the video looks crappy but it sure sounds good.

One thing I will say about kieth's 06 sound was that it sounded much dirtier when I was standing on front of it when they were on the b stage in atl. It sounded very different than th albums and when run thru the pa. More low end and more aggressive. I was shocked at what an improvement it was.

Go Dawgs!