>> Keith Richards has been quoted as saying "Mick is good on acoustic, but if I had my way, he would never touch electric guitar." <<

he was talking about Jagger when he said that.

there's a pretty well-known story that in the studio one day Keith told Taylor something like:
"You're great on stage, but in the studio you're too loud." maybe that's what you have in mind.

Never thought I'd see the day when Keith praised Mick's guitar-playing of any kind.

Anyway, back to the original question...I think you could say almost anything about Keith's views on Mick T and it would be correct, because it has changed and continues to change over time. He did state when Mick T left that he had never fit in and then he also chose him as a session musician on his solo work, which certainly indicates his high opinion of Mick T's ability. The Stones are so important to Keith that he cannot bear it when someone leaves."The only way you leave the Stones is in a box" or something like that. But time has shown that for the continuation of the band, Ronnie was probably a better choice, despite the decline in the quality of the new music, which may or may not have much to do wth Mick T's departure.


So perhaps Keith has mellowed toward Mick T and forgiven him for leaving.

Brian Jones, Mick Taylor and Ron Wood... they are all different kinds people and players. I think that Keith is most satisfied with Ronnie. You can see that on stage and old images. They're connected to each other and are a dynamic duo on stage. I have to say, not my favorite couple, because it's too 'empty' and it's too much of a sketch on stage.

Mick Taylor was a great guitarplayer. It was all about the music. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, he's standing still during playing and he's not giving much attention to audience, BUT his playing... it's great! But the chemistry between Mick T. and Keith is too little, unfortunately. I think they were only sharing drugs offstage. No small talk, I think. Mick Taylor is really a man on his own.And Keith was too busy with Anita and his drug abuse. Even Mick Jagger wasn't sharing time with Keith.

The only time I saw Mick Taylor smiling with Keith was during the videoclip of 'Its Only Rock and Roll' and maybe 'Ain't too proud to beg' video.

IMO Keith and Taylor got along as well as two people from any profession who are so radically different at core, could get along. True - there are not many pics of Taylor smiling at Keith, but then there aren't many of him smiling at Jagger either. Taylor was just a quiet type, shy-ish kind of guy. He's thrown into the maelstrom of the Stones , just as one of their craziest periods is kicking into gear, but he hung with them. I mean - on his first days on the job he does Hyde Park, Altamont, 72 Plane-sex which was probably just a tip of the iceberg, Jamaican recording sessions, busts - but he soars on guitar, and starts doing dope himself. I guess what I'm saying is, that he was a little bad boy himself. Maybe just not the smiling talkative type.
And there is a quote of Keith where he supposeldy yelled at Taylor that he played too loud. And he was not re the 81 show; it was a studio situation.
The 81 guest spot sounds like it went down without Jagger's blessing. And the bigger the Stones got, the more technical mumbo jumbo goes into a guest spot. Stones 81 - you couldn't just throw an amp on stage and have a dude play without any kind of sound check, which is what Keith and Ron obviously did.

The quote you're referring to comes from an Andy John's interview regarding the recording of the "It's Only Rock Roll" album. Mick Taylor was busying himself making suggestions in the control room while they were listening to a playback, and Keith turned on him and said "Look, mate, you're great onstage, but you're horrible in the studio! Could you just go away for a little bit?!"

Tommy

Mick J has been quoted alluding to the fact that the 2 (KR & MT) did not get on so well as the reason perhaps for Mick T's departure... But that's Mick J's take on the matter.

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Glam Descendant

"The Pressure of work is too much for them"!!!

No, Keith, it's the pressure of hanging around.
A pressure that you are now well accustomed to. (Throaty) "haw, haw, haw"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-30 15:49 by Four Stone Walls.

Ah. Right on two counts - the 1981 guest appearance of Mick T as well as the comment about his volume in the studio from Keith.

I think part of the problem is, there has been so many magazines and books published over the years that some of this stuff has just become part of our DNA ha ha. Crediting a source has gotten easier and more difficult. If you reads it on the intranets then it must be's trues.

It certainly can be.

from what i read earlier today, seems like taylor was closer to bill and charlie than with mick and keith and was friends with ronnie as well

Being a devoted Mick Taylor fan (and a big fan of the Stones in the Brian and MT years) I've read everything down to the shortest 3 paragraph interview about all this. My impressions are that Taylor and Richards were not friends but they got along ok and they complimented each other so well on stage-- I mean those '73 boots from Europe are jawdropping. Taylor was good friends with Wyman, and Wyman had talked about leaving the Stones at the same time as Taylor, because he and Keith really didn't get along. They did several tours where they never spoke. Jagger hung out with Taylor a lot, it was at a party after the two of them had gone to see a Clapton concert that Taylor gave him his neatly typed resignation letter. Jagger all but said in an interview in NY in '95 that that version of the band was the best but he wouldn't come out and actually say that because "that kind of trashes the band I have now, right?' But he loved having a guitar player who could play long, extended lines that he could work vocal lines from and not two guys going chunka chunka all night long. Neither he nor Richards wanted him to leave but you have to remember Taylor was 20 when he joined that band, 3 of the others were 25 to 28 and Wyman was 33. The group had several years where they were starving and scuffling and he wasn't a part of that so didn't feel he was a real Stone. He's always maintained he never planned on staying with them forever and he's on such another level playing wise that it's easy to see where he'd be bored to death doing the same set night after night and the thought of playing JJF and MR the rest of his life was pretty scary. But I still think if they'd given him song writing credits on the songs he obviously helped write, he'd have stayed a lot longer. Sway is Mick J on rhythm guitar and MT on lead guitar and no Keith to be heard. Same with Moonlight Mile, Can You Hear the Music, Winter, Hide Your Love and others. If you listen to some of the songs that didn't make Exiles which Taylor was brilliant on -- particularly I Ain't Lying, he's playing some monster licks and the fact they couldn't find a place for them somewhere is ridiculous. I think by 73 and 4, Keith was not only jealous as Mick was starting to be mentioned with Hendrix, Page, Clapton, Townshend, Santana and others as a virtuoso, Keith was too junked out to do much about it and he saw his Chuck Berry style band going into new directions he did not want it to go. Keith said some really dumb things right after Taylor left like not only did Wood fit in better but that he was a better player. It boggles that any guitar player would make such a statement but I have a feeling by then it had begun to sink in they'd messed up and had gone from being the Greatest Rock n Roll Band in the world to one of many pretty good hard rock bands. The KC concert was spur of the moment and all 3 had been drinking. listening to the boot, Jagger is obviously not happy but when Taylor came out the place went batshit and nobody had worked out how long he was going to play and with a reception like that, who was going to tell him to get off? It was Wood who did the complaining and when somebody asked Richard about it he said 'yeah, that @#$%&' but obviously wasn't irate or anything. And as others have mentioned they've played together since. In fact they both played on John Phillips solo album within a year of Taylor walking out altough Phillips wrote that it took a while before they started joking with each other again. A few more interesting quick points here - sorry I'm going on long-- KR has had nothing but good to say about Taylor for many years; it's reported in Greenfield's Exiles book that Keith has run into Taylor and almost started crying saying 'we owe you, man, we owe you'(but hasn't done anything about it -- I see it took them 4o yrs to give Marianne Faithfull her part writing credit for Sister Morphine)-- I can't imagine a guy collecting royalties on songs like Sway and Moonlight Mile when he wasn't even at the damn sessions. There is also a boot of Dylan, Richard and Wood practicing for the Live Aid concert in '85 which was right after Taylor had played and toured with Dylan for 2 years. Keith asks Dylan so hows' Mick Taylor doing? And Dylan says he doesn't know, Mick is always calling saying he'll be in town in a couple weeks but he hadn't seen him in a year. They discuss the fact that Mick is Mick no two ways about it,and Keith says it's impossible to get to know him well, he's so walled in. Then Dylan and Wood and finally Richard all start raving about Taylor's first solo album Leather Jacket. Dylan loved that song and Broken Hands.Richard made -for him - a very astute observation that both Taylor and Billy Preston were types who wanted to get out front but were more suited to be members of a band where all they had to do was play. And that I think is a pretty accurate description of MT. He's been incredible with the Stones, Mayall, Jack Bruce, Alvin Lee, Carla Olson and this year with Petit and many others. His live shows are great when he's playing but his singing is mediocre and he doesn't look comfortable being the man out front. But as long as he's playing guitar, who cares, right? That boot is Voices of Freedom Live Aid '85 btw.
Sorry I went on so long but this is a topic that's fascinated me because I went from being a huge Stones fan from 63 to 74 to not even paying attention to them after Black and Blue. With Taylor, Jimmy Miller, Nicky Hopkins, Johns, Price and Keys, Ian Stewart -- that band was untouchable. I still gobble up everything I can find that Taylor is on because he has such incredible touch and taste and his vibrato is almost alien. Very sobering (he's 2 years older than me) to be thought of as a pretty decent guitar player in your little corner of the world and know that guy could play rings around you today when he was 19.
Again, I aplogize for the length here.

I agree Keith was genuinely aggrieved when Taylor quit. The telegram is very curious. It was positive on the surface but a but curt in its brevity as if to say "thanks, good luck, later" like it was no big deal to fill his place.

A very telling scene in L&G was when Keith stared Taylor down as he started to solo during the coda of TD basically telling him to stop. By fall 73 he was soloing all through that part whether Keith liked it or not.

Finally, if Taylor was so loud in KC in 81, how come you can hardly hear him on the excellent SB boot in circulation?

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Zack
A very telling scene in L&G was when Keith stared Taylor down as he started to solo during the coda of TD basically telling him to stop. By fall 73 he was soloing all through that part whether Keith liked it or not.

I had always thought the reference was to Taylor because he stops playing in L&G, but then I heard Jagger says something similar at one of the Fort Worth shows and Taylor keeps playing. Maybe Hopkins was playing something. Or Richards didn't like Bobby Keys' choreography.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-03 23:38 by Smokey.

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keefed
Despite of Mick T's misterious high level playing wise he seems to play the same focking setlist during his solo shows for 20+ years. It seems that playing You Gotta Move for the rest of his life was not so scary for him....

Misterious (sic) high level playing-wise? You aren't implying he's just another Keith, Brian or Woody, right? I mean I like Keith too but there's a reason he feels much more comfortable with a poor man's version of himself than he did with a guy who is a world class player. That ancient art of weaving is a bunch of crap, which to me basically means it takes two guitar players to play rhythm, not to mention there hasn't been a decent lead or solo played in that band in 30 years nor has there been any kind of creative inspiration. Before the mid 70s bands followed what the Stones did. After that, the Stones followed trends or stayed in their comfort zone.
Your other point is a good one but it's always been my opinion that Taylor is a blues man at heart and at the time was wanting to improve his playing and doing the same 14 3 chord songs in the same order wasn't making it for him. I'm listening to Leeds and Brussels right now and by 73 Taylor was bored enough he played what he wanted when he wanted; even Jagger waited to start singing after a solo when Taylor got done playing. His desire to play blues standards and his own tunes is a bit different than playing the same rock songs every night.It's a basic framework around which you can jam and play it differently every time. I've been in bands for years and the only Stones song I'll still play is Live With Me. The others are all great but come on, after 500 times it's like, give 'em a rest. I just think Taylor hit that wall a lot earlier.

I just wanted to chime in quickly that I'm enjoying this particular thread immensely. Thank you to all of you who are contributing to it.

Taylor's struggles after he left the Stones were one of those "careful what you ask for, you might get it" situations. He had all these great artistic ambitions while feeling stifled in the Stones, but then when the ball was in his court, he missed it. Jack Bruce didn't work out, his first solo album didn't come out for five years after he quit the Stones and didn't feature any Brussels-like ferocity, and when he realized he'd blown his chance, turned more to drugs and lost his mojo. It's a common human failing. He was a sensitive guy, and from what I understand of the music business, you have to be pretty ego-maniacal and ruthless to succeed.

really how could any of us actually now or claim to know. We aren't there!!

We read books.

Loud on stage does not translate to loud out front. It's entirely different. The complaint about Taylor being loud is just that - he was obviously super loud on stage. To the point of bothering the audible mix on stage.

You read books - most of the books written about the Stones were done so without their cooperation.

>>>really how could any of us actually now or claim to know. We aren't there!!

Plenty of interviews?

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Zack
I agree Keith was genuinely aggrieved when Taylor quit. The telegram is very curious. It was positive on the surface but a but curt in its brevity as if to say "thanks, good luck, later" like it was no big deal to fill his place.

A very telling scene in L&G was when Keith stared Taylor down as he started to solo during the coda of TD basically telling him to stop. By fall 73 he was soloing all through that part whether Keith liked it or not.

Finally, if Taylor was so loud in KC in 81, how come you can hardly hear him on the excellent SB boot in circulation?

Like Skip said, being loud on stage, even deafening, has nothing to do with what you hear out front. One could almost go as far as to say, that in a weird paradox - the louder you get on stage, the less you will be heard out front. Because the soundman will be forced to take you out of the house sound (i.e. PA).

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really how could any of us actually now or claim to know. We aren't there!!

This isn't exactly the first time this topic has been discussed. To the rest of the world it's a 'who cares?' but to Stone fans it's a biggie because it leaves such a big "what if' question. There have been a lot of people working for the Stones who've come and gone who were interviewed for books, Wyman has quit and talked about it although not in his books, Taylor has, Jagger has, Keith has. Guys who worked with them in the studio have been interviewed about it. And it's probably better that those books don't have the Stones cooperation if you want the truth about something because nobody -- Taylor, Keith or Jagger is going to put themselves in a bad light. Andy Johns was their recording engineer on several albums and was probably Taylor's closest friend in the "inner circle" and he's blamed himself for years because when Taylor started talking about leaving and playing with Jack Bruce, Johns encouraged him to do it because he knew he was unhappy, especially after It's Only Rock n Roll came out and Jagger had promised him 2 writing credits for sure this time -- and it was the samo samo. So, no, we weren't there and I'm sure we don't know everything about it, but I don't think anybody in the band knows for sure what was going on either, even Taylor. He's said many times he's never regretted it but he's only human so there has to have been times he's wondered 'what if' too. But as he says, he got into enough trouble with hard drugs on his own after he left the Stones, he might've been dead years ago if he'd stayed.

<Finally, if Taylor was so loud in KC in 81, how come you can hardly hear him on the excellent SB boot in circulation?>

The boot is a soundboard. Taylor wasn't plugged into the board, hence very loud on stage.