during taylor's time with the stones did he have close friendship with keith? there's plenty of pics of keith and brian or keith and ronnie having fun together but i've never seen any pics of mick t and keith being buddy buddy . most pics are band shots or the two of them playing guitar and seems their relationship was mostly professional. i've read where jagger was grooming taylor to take over keith's spot in the stones and if true would surely strain any friendship. have i answered my own question or is there more to it?

not sure why they would or should be friends. it's a band, a job, not a pajama party....

After Taylor's departure, Keith made several comments that he had never really fit in, unlike Woody. I always had the impression that he was jealous of Mick T's virtuosity. In later years, he had favourable things to say about Mick T's contribution. However, when MT joined them onstage in 1981, Keith complained that he had played too loud.

Strangely enough, when you look at photos of Taylor with Keith, you very rarely ever see ones of him smiling. The only photos where I see him smile are from Hyde Park and a few of the '69 shows. There's a photo over at Pro Corbis from '69 where Taylor has the happiest grin I've ever seen him have while playing onstage with the band.

hmm but after all that (and 1981) why did Mick play guitar on Talk is Cheap (I could have stood you up)? Why joined Keith a gig of Mick T in 1986? Can not be that worse. Maybe Keith did not realise at the time Mick left.. what's going on really.

Keith could have stood him up but did..did..didn't yeah yeah yeah....



ROCKMAN

ooooooooowwww 120 seconds behind ya mariannerl ......



ROCKMAN

I think I've read that when Taylor quit, he received a telegram from Keith, where Keith said he had loved to play with him, and that telegram made Taylor cry.

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mariannerl
hmm but after all that (and 1981) why did Mick play guitar on Talk is Cheap (I could have stood you up)? Why joined Keith a gig of Mick T in 1986? Can not be that worse. Maybe Keith did not realise at the time Mick left.. what's going on really.

Possibly Keith valued Mick's ability and liked performing with him on a limited basis...not being in the same band.

This is the fly on the wall question that lingers even after all these years. What was the Jagger-Taylor-Richards personal dynamic during those years? Unfortunately, I believe about half of what any participant says on the subject. I was hoping Wyman's second book would shed some light on the subject and was disappointed when it did not. Taylor and Keith friends? IMO, doubtful. Taylor seemed to hang more with Jagger, in the studio, driving in cars, and it is Jagger who reportedly still holds a grudge. Why? The hurt feelings seem to be with him more than Keith.

I am cynical about Keith's actions regarding Taylor. The telegram could have been a backhanded kiss off. The walk on in '86 a piss on Taylor's parade. And can you tell me where you can hear Taylor on Talk Is Cheap? There is not a more inappropriate song to have Taylor play on. Besides Keith was feuding with Jagger at the time. Keith's not a friend I would trust if I were Taylor.

The first photo that Ringo posted is one that I wish could be officially released for fans to purchase. I'd love to have that image put into a nice frame and hung up in a special place in my house.

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Bliss
However, when MT joined them onstage in 1981, Keith complained that he had played too loud.

Ha Ha Keith is the man..

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72stones
The first photo that Ringo posted is one that I wish could be officially released for fans to purchase. I'd love to have that image put into a nice frame and hung up in a special place in my house.

Is that a single picture or a pre-Photo Shop merge?

<After Taylor's departure, Keith made several comments that he had never really fit in, unlike Woody. I always had the impression that he was jealous of Mick T's virtuosity. In later years, he had favourable things to say about Mick T's contribution. However, when MT joined them onstage in 1981, Keith complained that he had played too loud.>

I think Keith was bitter because MT left. Keith is never jealous of virtuousity, he loaths it. And it was Woody that complained about MT playing loud in Kansas 1981, not Keith.

After this, Keith and MT have cooperated, first live in 1986 - then on the Talk Is Cheap sessions.

<And can you tell me where you can hear Taylor on Talk Is Cheap?>
You are kidding, right? The solo that closes the number is Taylor. But he is playing a Berry-solo. Why? It suits the song

There is a very revealing interview clip with MT in the 1973 Australian tour TV documentary in which MT is asked whether he will stay with the Stones indefinitely and he replies that although he likes playing with them, there are others he'd like to play with. So the writing was on the wall then.

I think Keith always has and always will respect MT as a great musician. And I believe there was some jelousy as well.
With Ronnie it was much more fun between 73 and 78, a kind of "little brother" thing. Keith has never well respected Ronnie

>> And it was Woody that complained about MT playing loud in Kansas 1981, not Keith. <<

Ian McLagan as well - this is from his very fine book All the Rage:
"They'd plugged [Mick T's] guitar cord into an amp directly behind me that night,
but as he was at least thirty feet away at the front of the stage, he could hardly hear it,
so he cranked the volume all the way up. I've never heard anything louder than the sound that amp in my whole life
and I ran from the stage to protect my ears and wouldn't go back on until he left the stage."

so apparently there was an objective problem with Mick T's volume that night.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-29 11:26 by with sssoul.

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jamesjagger
I think Keith always has and always will respect MT as a great musician. And I believe there was some jelousy as well.
With Ronnie it was much more fun between 73 and 78, a kind of "little brother" thing. Keith has never well respected Ronnie

"His touch, his tone, and his melodic ideas wowed me." Keith Richards, 1997
But as you say ,Ronnie "fitted " more to Keith than Mick Taylor.

I don't know the photgraph's name :





I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

<Keith has never well respected Ronnie>

Where do you have this from?

Here is a quote from Mick Taylor about Keith and friendship, that is to be found on the
timeisonourside website. It does not reveil where the quote comes from, just that it is
from the 70s.

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Mick Taylor
Keith always had a lot of people hanging around. He seemed to have this need for people to give him confidence,
but they weren't necessarily the best people.
There's nothing wrong with a genuine need for friends, which is probably why Keith was surrounded
by these people 'cause he didn't have friends.

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marcovandereijk
Here is a quote from Mick Taylor about Keith and friendship, that is to be found on the
timeisonourside website. It does not reveil where the quote comes from, just that it is
from the 70s.

Quote
Mick Taylor
Keith always had a lot of people hanging around. He seemed to have this need for people to give him confidence,
but they weren't necessarily the best people.
There's nothing wrong with a genuine need for friends, which is probably why Keith was surrounded
by these people 'cause he didn't have friends.

There's probably some truth to that. I suppose it has a lot to do with Keith's drug habit at the time -- sober people got fed up and most of his friends (when he didn't have to work the music) were addicts who behaved as such.

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with sssoul
so apparently there was an objective problem with Mick T's volume that night.

You can put it like that or you could say there was an objective problem with the way the stage was set up for Taylor's guestspot. Remember that Ian McLagan has a very "entertaining" style of writing about events he was involved with.
What I find surprising is this: You would think with a professional band like the Stones it should have been possible to set up the stage in such a way that Taylor could hear himself play without having to turn the amp to the max. Apparently he could not hear his guitar in the monitors (which in itself reveals they were set incorrectly) making it very hard to play anything decent that way. On top of that, his amp was way too far from where he was standing causing the amp's sound to be hardly audible in the total onslaught.

Maybe Taylor was just trying to make the best out of a situation (in terms of equipment and stageplan) that was far from ideal. The "normal" way to prevent/fix these kind of problems is to have a soundcheck. But then I guess they didn't have time for one in Kansas City. Plus there are not too many things that guys like Keith, Mick T, or Ronnie do in a "normal fashion" anyway...
It was strictly a coincidence that Mick T and Keith were in the same place at the same time. When they realised they were only miles apart, Taylor was invited to come to Keith's hotel. After hanging out for some time with Keith and Ronnie they asked him to come along to the gig and play with them. Jagger didn't seem too keen on the idea at first but was more or less cornered by his 2 guitarplayers. It all happened in a very "spur of the moment" kind of way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-29 17:54 by Lightnin'.

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Bliss
However, when MT joined them onstage in 1981, Keith complained that he had played too loud.

Like a Rolling Stone should..

<And can you tell me where you can hear Taylor on Talk Is Cheap?>

You are kidding, right? The solo that closes the number is Taylor. But he is playing a Berry-solo. Why? It suits the song

If those are Taylor's solos then I take it back. I said inappropriate because I cannot think of a time when Taylor on his own plays boogie-woogie Berryesque RnR. It's not a natural inclination, but he can certainly do it.

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pmk251
<And can you tell me where you can hear Taylor on Talk Is Cheap?>

You are kidding, right? The solo that closes the number is Taylor. But he is playing a Berry-solo. Why? It suits the song

If those are Taylor's solos then I take it back. I said inappropriate because I cannot think of a time when Taylor on his own plays boogie-woogie Berryesque RnR. It's not a natural inclination, but he can certainly do it.

don't lie to me - '72 tour - taylor doing berry proud

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pmk251
I said inappropriate because I cannot think of a time when Taylor on his own plays boogie-woogie Berryesque RnR. It's not a natural inclination, but he can certainly do it.

He's said that he learned guitar playing Chuck Berry and others, but that Chuck Berry's music is not a big influence on his playing. Perhaps he retains some of that Muddy Waters "real blues" vs. Chuck Berry "rhythm n blues" schism that seems to have infected some in the 60s.

Still, he does have a taste for that boogie woogie style playing. What about Highway 61 from his tour with Dylan? Or these?

860802B 2nd August: New York City, The Bottom Line (2nd show)
Too Much Monkey Business

860803B 3rd August: Cambridge, Massachusetts, Nightstage (2nd show)
Lucille-Reelin’ And Rockin'

860819A 19th August: Detroit, Michigan,
Move Me-Too Much Monkey Business-Reelin’ And Rockin

I distinctly remember it was Keith who complained abut Mick T being too loud, but can't recall where. Perhaps Skipstone will know.

>>463. Re: Is Mick Taylor one of the most distinctive guitarists ever?

Quote skipstone Well Keith said he played too loud. I don't know what else you need. ...and that's another reason why (criminally) we can never hear much of Ronnie.
Forum: Tell Me

There's also this: [74.125.153.132]

zombywoof
January 17th, 2007, 09:56 PM
Kieth Richards has been quoted as saying "Mick is good on acoustic, but if I had my way, he would never touch electric guitar."

After the 1981 Kansas City show where Taylor joined the Stones, Keef complained he played too loud. Did not stop Keef from joining Taylor on stage at the Lone Star Cafe or from inviting Taylor to to guest on "Talk is Cheap" LP.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-29 20:51 by Bliss.

what i know of 12/14/81 when taylor joined the stones in kansas was that taylor's amp was NOT thru the pa and taylor could not hear himself well so he cranked the amp and sir mick was not pleased with this so he had ronnie say so which ronnie is ever the loyal solider to take one for the team !

Quote
Bliss
I distinctly remember it was Keith who complained abut Mick T being too loud, but can't recall where. Perhaps Skipstone will know.

>>463. Re: Is Mick Taylor one of the most distinctive guitarists ever?

Quote skipstone Well Keith said he played too loud. I don't know what else you need. ...and that's another reason why (criminally) we can never hear much of Ronnie.
Forum: Tell Me

There's also this: [74.125.153.132]

zombywoof
January 17th, 2007, 09:56 PM
Kieth Richards has been quoted as saying "Mick is good on acoustic, but if I had my way, he would never touch electric guitar."

After the 1981 Kansas City show where Taylor joined the Stones, Keef complained he played too loud. Did not stop Keef from joining Taylor on stage at the Lone Star Cafe or from inviting Taylor to to guest on "Talk is Cheap" LP.

I've always believed that the "Mick" in zombywoof's quote, who should never be let loose on an electric guitar, is Mick Jagger (and I think Keith isn't so critical of his playing these days).