Maybe this is overkill, but I thought it might be fun if each of the newly remastered albums had its own separate thread. Sticky is the only one I've heard so far, so I'll leave it to other people to start their own GHS, IORR, and BAB threads, if anyone wants to do that.

So, anyway, I bought Sticky Fingers today. It's one of the greatest rock and roll albums ever made, and my all time personal favorite, so I HAD to buy it. I figured it was worth $13.99 to find out just how badly they had screwed with it. After reading Nikolai's review, I expected it to be a total abomination ....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-08 03:30 by tatters.

.... but speaking as a total NON-audiophile, I gotta tell ya, I didn't think it was all THAT bad. Has anyone else heard it. I sorta figured that it would be the one that people would buy first, since it's clearly the best album of the four that were released this week, and along with Exile, is one of the Stones two best post-Abkco albums.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-08 03:32 by tatters.

I'll tell you something I noticed right away that I liked; Bobby's sax on Brown Sugar. I always thought it was buried too low in the mix. It sounded more like a kazoo than a sax. Now it rings through the mix; bright, clear, and loud.

"...I didn't think it was all THAT bad..."

great review, mate!

Keith's background vocals are more defined,so is Charlies drums,I think everyone is overreacting.....of course to each his own.

Coming Down Again

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Muppet HiFi
"...I didn't think it was all THAT bad..."

great review, mate!

I'm not prepared to write a definitive review. I've only listened to it once, in a track by track comparison with the Virgin CD. I'll give it another listen tomorrow, but my first impression is this: The Virgin may be closer to the sound of the vinyl LP, but the Universal may be closer to the actual sound The Rolling Stones MADE when they were in the studio, recording this music.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-08 03:34 by tatters.

No don't say that! that means i really SHOULD shell out $$ to buy the entire set with the special box!

That's not the point, how they sounded in the studio. What the hell is that? That's crap. That's not the point. If that was the point then they'd never overdub, it would be full of mistakes, bad notes and the mix would be awful.

Virgin's issues - to Mick's precise ears (and Keith's) - were to sound on CD just like how the original vinyl issues sounded. That's what Bob Ludwig was told, that's what he did. That's why the Virgin's will always sound the best. Any buffoon could copy the Virgin's to some program and 'remaster' them to be LOUDER and tweak the EQ a c-hair or two.

And from what I've read - I don't know myself so I'm going on what people say - the Mickboy - I have no idea what that's about - things sound better than the UMGs.

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tatters

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Muppet HiFi
"...I didn't think it was all THAT bad..."

great review, mate!

I'm not prepared to write a definitive review. I've only listened to it once, in a track by track comparison with the Virgin CD. I'll give it another listen tomorrow, but my first impression is this: The Virgin may be closer to the sound of the vinyl LP, but the Universal may be closer to the actual sound The Rolling Stones MADE when they were in the studio, recording this music.

Rock on,bro.This isn't Steely Dan or Norah Jones were talking about-its the STONES,DAMMIT!The World's Greatest ROCK N' ROLL Band!!!!It's meant to sound loud and distorted!!!

I haven't heard the new Sticky Fingers yet, but how can certain parts in the music be heard better than before? How can the drums be more defined? I think that is only possible to accentuate a certain instrument or voice if a new mix is done from the multitrack tapes? To remaster have nothing at all to do with a mix. If the same original stereo master mix is used, all that can be done is the level and some EQ. Nothing can be added and nothing can be taken away from that.
Mats

I think ANY review should be comparative. UMG vs Vurgin vs CBS vs vinyl if you have them.

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Matt
I haven't heard the new Sticky Fingers yet, but how can certain parts in the music be heard better than before? How can the drums be more defined? I think that is only possible to accentuate a certain instrument or voice if a new mix is done from the multitrack tapes? To remaster have nothing at all to do with a mix. If the same original stereo master mix is used, all that can be done is the level and some EQ. Nothing can be added and nothing can be taken away from that.
Mats

thats true
anyway i dont think that Universal sent all stones albums to one of the best mastering studios in the states only to get the master volume up.
thats not a remastering

The new version sounds altogether more full to me (not bad, just different), though i don't believe it warrants people shelling out the extra cash.

If you know how to work the volume control on your remote then don't bother with it!

OK, but what is a remastering then? Of course different mastering sounds different, but still - you can not accentuate any of the instruments that are already in the mix with the other instruments. The best mastering I've heard of Sticky Fingers is the MFSL half-speed mastered vinyl. But still - all instruments and voices have their same positions and weak sounds sounds weak, and loud sounds remains loud, i.e. very dynamic. The reason I like that master is that the dynamics have been left intact - no boosting up, nor compression.
Matt

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Stonewalled

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tatters

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Muppet HiFi
"...I didn't think it was all THAT bad..."

great review, mate!

I'm not prepared to write a definitive review. I've only listened to it once, in a track by track comparison with the Virgin CD. I'll give it another listen tomorrow, but my first impression is this: The Virgin may be closer to the sound of the vinyl LP, but the Universal may be closer to the actual sound The Rolling Stones MADE when they were in the studio, recording this music.

Rock on,bro.This isn't Steely Dan or Norah Jones were talking about-its the STONES,DAMMIT!The World's Greatest ROCK N' ROLL Band!!!!It's meant to sound loud and distorted!!!

Yeah, it's supposed to be loud, but in this case, the added volume comes at a price. Someone on here (Highwire?) said something about the remasters sounding "warmer" than the Virgins. The truth is the exact opposite. It's the Virgins that capture the "warmth" most people associate with vinyl. The Universal has a harshness to it that is almost impossible to get around. I'm sort a bass head, so I usually listen to music with bass turned up and the treble turned down, and that SHOULD remove some of the harshness of the new remaster, but it doesn't. What's ironic is that the remaster sounds best when you turn the volume DOWN. You can turn the volume way up on the Virgins and they still sound good. But I'll listen to it again today, experiment with it a little, and report back this weekend.

It now seems obvious it's a botched effort that cost more time and money in promotion and blah-blah than in actual care of the tapes... Sad!

I remember when Jimmy Page started to remaster the Zeppelin cd:s he said that he considered for a moment to remix them, but then he realized the amount of work such a task would take, so he reconsidered. Anyway, I think an actual remix of the Stones albums would be a lot more interesting than all these different remastered products.

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Matt
I haven't heard the new Sticky Fingers yet, but how can certain parts in the music be heard better than before? How can the drums be more defined? I think that is only possible to accentuate a certain instrument or voice if a new mix is done from the multitrack tapes? To remaster have nothing at all to do with a mix. If the same original stereo master mix is used, all that can be done is the level and some EQ. Nothing can be added and nothing can be taken away from that.
Mats

That's right. It's only through remixing that you can change the way various instruments sound in relation to other instruments, but remastering can have a dramatic effect on the way certain instruments sound. For example, on the new remaster, MT's guitar solo on CYHMK has an added "presence" that it doesn't have on the Virgin. It's got a little more bounce, a little more of a "live" feel, more like the way it probably sounded when he was actually sitting there in the studio, playing it.

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tatters
What's ironic is that the remaster sounds best when you turn the volume DOWN. You can turn the volume way up on the Virgins and they still sound good.

... which is a strong hint at excessive compression and enough reason for me to stick to the Virgins.

It's really sad with these compressed-to-death transfers we get to hear these days: Everything is present with the volume down, and when you turn it up it's getting unbearable - just like that Ian Gillan phrase from Made in Japan: "Is everything louder than everything else?" Annoying, artificial and brain-wrecking - because ears are not made for all these competing up-to-the-max-levels.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-08 18:56 by Greenblues.

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Stonewalled
This isn't Steely Dan or Norah Jones were talking about-its the STONES,DAMMIT!The World's Greatest ROCK N' ROLL Band!!!!It's meant to sound loud and distorted!!!

Right on, Stonewalled!!! Agree with ya 100%!!!! Well, all but the "distorted" part.

Drew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-10 17:14 by drewmaster.

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Matt
OK, but what is a remastering then? Of course different mastering sounds different, but still - you can not accentuate any of the instruments that are already in the mix with the other instruments. The best mastering I've heard of Sticky Fingers is the MFSL half-speed mastered vinyl. But still - all instruments and voices have their same positions and weak sounds sounds weak, and loud sounds remains loud, i.e. very dynamic. The reason I like that master is that the dynamics have been left intact - no boosting up, nor compression.
Matt

i don't think anything is released without 'mastering' which IS boosting the levels, playing with compression rations etc...level matching song to song etc...

ooops sorry for the itals...

and imo Matt the very finely tuned graphic equalizers (tone controls) on pro boards can certainly find the frequency level of that which is being compressed, and selectively compress it (that's what mastering engineers do)...and this clearly imo, Can and Does affect relative volume levels of particular , at will, so to speak...the results can be excellent, or harsh or weird or unbalanced or way wacky...

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Greenblues

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tatters
What's ironic is that the remaster sounds best when you turn the volume DOWN. You can turn the volume way up on the Virgins and they still sound good.

... which is a strong hint at excessive compression and enough reason for me to stick to the Virgins.

It's really sad with these compressed-to-death transfers we get to hear these days: Everything is present with the volume down, and when you turn it up it's getting unbearable - just like that Ian Gillan phrase from Made in Japan: "Is everything louder than everything else?" Annoying, artificial and brain-wrecking - because ears are not made for all these competing up-to-the-max-levels.

Just got done listening to it for the second and quite possibly last time. I'm gonna stick with the Virgin, too. The compression and volume of the Universal is just off the charts. In order to stand listening to it at the volume at which I normally listen to music, I have to turn the bass up to +5 and the treble down to -5. Even then, if I turn it up even a notch louder than what would be the high end of my normal volume range, the distortion is so unimaginably horrible that what you're hearing can no longer even be called music. It's closer to the sound of the "supersonic aircraft" that is referred to in the liner notes!

I've actually gotten a headache each of the two times I've listened to it. It's like being kicked in the ears. That's something I might expect from listening to a Punk album, not a record as subtle, mature, and complex as Sticky Fingers, about two-thirds of which is largely ACOUSTIC.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-09 14:12 by tatters.

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drewmaster

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Stonewalled
This isn't Steely Dan or Norah Jones were talking about-its the STONES,DAMMIT!The World's Greatest ROCK N' ROLL Band!!!!It's meant to sound loud and distorted!!!

Right on, Stonewalled!!! Agree with ya 100%!!!!

Drew

On the plus side, it's the QUIETER tracks that seem to have benefited most from the remaster. The electic guitar on Wild Horses has the same sort of "presence" that Taylor's CYHMK solo has. Charlie's drums on You Gotta Move, Sister Morphine, and Moonlight Mile are like an earthquake. I Got The Blues sounds like you are in the room with them, sitting right in front of Bill's massive bass rig. CYHMK comes roaring out of the speakers, and hits you like a ton of bricks. I want to turn it up, but I can't, cause when I do, the result is the most horrific, bone-jarring, teeth-rattling, blood-gushing-out-your-ears, cacophonus bombast I've ever heard in my life.

Then I put on the Virgin .... and .... it .... sounds .... perfect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-09 01:21 by tatters.

ABB already sounds like that - how can they make it it worse ? !!!!!!!

Oh dear I'm having second thoughts

Not even gonna go near these "remasters". Based on everything i have read here and other places buying these will be a waste of money. Virgin seems to have done it right back in '94. These comments sound familiar to how Iggy messed up Raw Power a few years back when he remixed it all in the red. Listening to that cd is unbearable. Wish I could find a copy of Bowie's original mix. Anyway, not going near these. Will leave well enough alone. Just dissapointing though that they didnt do a better job. Even if they couldnt improve on the sound they couldve put out some bonus stuff. Wouldve bought them all again if they had kept original sound along with bonus tracks.

" Wish I could find a copy of Bowie's original mix"
I have it. It looks so cheap I'm sure some fans dumped "in favor" of the 1997 Iggy "remaster". You'll find in 2nd hand bins, I'm postive!

Iggy's remix of Raw Power is amazing. It's really really loud; the bass was pumped up; it's really really loud; everything is really really loud; it's one of the greatest rock n' roll albums ever made; it's also really really loud.

I like really loud rock n' roll.

played on an old Lloyds turntable through a Fender Twin Reverb or a Champ Amp.

really really loud.

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Muppet HiFi
Iggy's remix of Raw Power is amazing. It's really really loud; the bass was pumped up; it's really really loud; everything is really really loud; it's one of the greatest rock n' roll albums ever made; it's also really really loud.

I like really loud rock n' roll.

played on an old Lloyds turntable through a Fender Twin Reverb or a Champ Amp.

really really loud.

><