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The Stones as the active, living breathing band didn't survive the 80's. Gazza gives very good points what happened during that unfortunately crucial decade. Honestly, I think it stupid to claim otherwise, no matter how much they happen to play "Jumping Jack Flash" in 1989, 2007 or in 2015. They are not a real band any more.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-01-30 17:14 by Doxa.
Good point Barn Owl but how come someone like Neil Young who's just a bit younger can come up high quality albums every now and then. Bob Dylan is another example who arguably seems to be back on a roll. I said before that there's no point in looking back but perhaps taking a tip from the old blues guys - the cats who inspired the Stones in the first place - who still invested passion in their music way into old age. John Lee Hooker and Muddy Waters are just two that spring to mind.
As long as we continue to pay they have no reason to do any different.
really? relevance? integrity?
It is the Jagger's lifestyle since 1966 (at least...), the stones are rich since more than 40 years now... they wrote a lot of songs in palaces, so nothing to do with money.
A problem is the team Jagger/Richards doesn't work anymore like 30 years ago.
Jagger and Richards NEVER meet when they not touring or recording...
No they are entertainers, not artists so its not a problem to them
i didn't say they were artists. they got into the business out of a passion for music and had great artistic sensibilities...people like that generally aren't satisfied unless they get a chance to continually create....
You've answered your own question...superbly!
Unlike the Stones, it's worth noting that the likes of Neil Young and Bob Dylan can draw from, and write about, inspirations from what they read or see around them without the constrains of having to ensure that the subject matter is cool or thematic enough for the perpetuation of an image.
They can basically sing about whatever they like, which is more or less what Bruce Springsteen seems to be doing on his new album.
The Stones on the other hand, have allowed themselves to become trapped by the wider public's expectations and perceptions of whatever it is they once stood for.
Well, Bill kinda left 19 years after Mick - according to which source one believes, but officially it was 1993, no? - so, yeah, of course they left for the same reasons?
Areosmith, really? Critical acclaim? Huge sales? For their last albums? I must have been sleeping
Lest we forget, "A Bigger Bang" actually did exceptionally well on the critical front and - IMO - pretty good sales for a band that had been around for more than 42 years at the time. They were the number one selling band in the world for three weeks running, selling app. 2,5 millions copies in an ever narrowing market.
At the end of the day, I don't give a rat's ass for critical acclaim or huge sales - what do I like - that is what counts.
I'll drink ANYTHING!
T&A,
I meant in terms of them regurgitating the same show over and over again. No need to reinvent what appears to still be working. People still pay the astronomical prices to see the same show, all of us included.
Mmmmmm....beer.....droooool
I couldn't agree with you more, T&A, but unfortunately, I don't think they agree with us.
That is absolutely true! Look what they did in the old days with YCAGWYW, Midnight Rambler, Sympathy, Stray Cat Blues, Street Fighting Man, Live With Me, Love In Vain, and the list just goes on...
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 30, 2009 17:13
Quote
Gazza
its a bit sobering to think that the Stones have been around for so long that 'Dirty Work' - an album which would be seen as a 'latter day' Rolling Stones album was actually released at what is now exactly the half way point in their career.
It marked a big turning point - Stu's death, Jagger starting to push himself as a solo act and a period of internal friction which tore the band apart until 1989, after which Cohl's influence became greater with each successive tour to the point where in 2009 he has effectively assumed control of the 'creative' direction of the band along with Mick.
Hard to believe that in the entire second half of their career (23 years), the Stones have released just four studio albums with no sign of a fifth in the immediate future. The fact that theyve put out five LIVE albums in that time plus several compilations speaks volumes however.
The Stones as the active, living breathing band didn't survive the 80's. Gazza gives very good points what happened during that unfortunately crucial decade. Honestly, I think it stupid to claim otherwise, no matter how much they happen to play "Jumping Jack Flash" in 1989, 2007 or in 2015. They are not a real band any more.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-01-30 17:14 by Doxa.
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:16
Quote
Barn Owl
Much as we'd like the Stones to go on forever, it is ridiculous in the extreme, for them to be trying to re-enact this personae of sex, drugs and rock n' roll when, in reality, they are a bunch of pensionable-age guys pushing towards their seventieth birthdays.
I mean, WHERE exactly, can we expect them to draw their inspiration from, when their actual lifestyles are so incredibly distanced and removed from the so-called rock n' roll way of living?
This is why their shows in recent years have mustered up about as much edge and menace as a children's pantomime. They are just not credible or believable anymore.
The upshot being, that unless they really do have enough belief in their ability to start making real music again, as well as actually PLAYING it, then they might as well call it quits right now and put us all out of our misery.
...and open the vaults.
Good point Barn Owl but how come someone like Neil Young who's just a bit younger can come up high quality albums every now and then. Bob Dylan is another example who arguably seems to be back on a roll. I said before that there's no point in looking back but perhaps taking a tip from the old blues guys - the cats who inspired the Stones in the first place - who still invested passion in their music way into old age. John Lee Hooker and Muddy Waters are just two that spring to mind.
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
T&A
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:19
solo artists have much more leeway in terms of following a muse and can turn on a dime when the inspiration strikes....neil, van, bob, lou....all very good examples. looks like neil is doing it again, as we speak, in fact. politics trump muse in bands....
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:22
Quote
DizzyDutch
it's getting a bit boring, i mean... since Voodoo (1994) we've had the same record producer and studio albums, the same tour staff, the same kind of greatest hits world tour... it has all more or less been the same since 1994 guys! that's 15 years of the same shit every once in a while. when are they waking up, and try something different, a fresh start.
As long as we continue to pay they have no reason to do any different.
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
T&A
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:25
Quote
VoodooLounge13Quote
DizzyDutch
it's getting a bit boring, i mean... since Voodoo (1994) we've had the same record producer and studio albums, the same tour staff, the same kind of greatest hits world tour... it has all more or less been the same since 1994 guys! that's 15 years of the same shit every once in a while. when are they waking up, and try something different, a fresh start.
As long as we continue to pay they have no reason to do any different.
really? relevance? integrity?
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
ablett
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:33
"As long as we continue to pay they have no reason to do any different."
In a way your right. If you live in the Stones world I'm sure they look at the numbers, tickets sold, rave reviews and think 'if it aint bust why fix it'?
In a way your right. If you live in the Stones world I'm sure they look at the numbers, tickets sold, rave reviews and think 'if it aint bust why fix it'?
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
T&A
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:35
how about utter boredom with doing something more or less exactly the same way for 20 years....wouldn't you think one of them would wanna blow his brains out eventually? these are supposed to be artistic types....
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
mitch
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:40
Quote
Loudei
As seen on the Being Mick DVD, how can you write a song like Beast Of Burden with a lifestyle like that? Recording an album while watching a tennis match for instance.
It is the Jagger's lifestyle since 1966 (at least...), the stones are rich since more than 40 years now... they wrote a lot of songs in palaces, so nothing to do with money.
A problem is the team Jagger/Richards doesn't work anymore like 30 years ago.
Jagger and Richards NEVER meet when they not touring or recording...
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
ablett
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:41
You'd have to ask them?? I agree but perhaps they aint bored? Surely its more to do with feeing their ego than artistic want??
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
T&A
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:46
i'm sure it is - feeding the egos and feeding the bank accounts, but still - at some point, you'd think maybe they'd get fed up with themselves....
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
jlowe
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:50
Quote
T&A
how about utter boredom with doing something more or less exactly the same way for 20 years....wouldn't you think one of them would wanna blow his brains out eventually? these are supposed to be artistic types....
No they are entertainers, not artists so its not a problem to them
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
T&A
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:52
Quote
jloweQuote
T&A
how about utter boredom with doing something more or less exactly the same way for 20 years....wouldn't you think one of them would wanna blow his brains out eventually? these are supposed to be artistic types....
No they are entertainers, not artists so its not a problem to them
i didn't say they were artists. they got into the business out of a passion for music and had great artistic sensibilities...people like that generally aren't satisfied unless they get a chance to continually create....
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
Barn Owl
()
Date: January 30, 2009 18:54
Quote
Silver DaggerQuote
Barn Owl
Much as we'd like the Stones to go on forever, it is ridiculous in the extreme, for them to be trying to re-enact this personae of sex, drugs and rock n' roll when, in reality, they are a bunch of pensionable-age guys pushing towards their seventieth birthdays.
I mean, WHERE exactly, can we expect them to draw their inspiration from, when their actual lifestyles are so incredibly distanced and removed from the so-called rock n' roll way of living?
This is why their shows in recent years have mustered up about as much edge and menace as a children's pantomime. They are just not credible or believable anymore.
The upshot being, that unless they really do have enough belief in their ability to start making real music again, as well as actually PLAYING it, then they might as well call it quits right now and put us all out of our misery.
...and open the vaults.
Good point Barn Owl but how come someone like Neil Young who's just a bit younger can come up high quality albums every now and then. Bob Dylan is another example who arguably seems to be back on a roll. I said before that there's no point in looking back but perhaps taking a tip from the old blues guys - the cats who inspired the Stones in the first place - who still invested passion in their music way into old age. John Lee Hooker and Muddy Waters are just two that spring to mind.
You've answered your own question...superbly!
Unlike the Stones, it's worth noting that the likes of Neil Young and Bob Dylan can draw from, and write about, inspirations from what they read or see around them without the constrains of having to ensure that the subject matter is cool or thematic enough for the perpetuation of an image.
They can basically sing about whatever they like, which is more or less what Bruce Springsteen seems to be doing on his new album.
The Stones on the other hand, have allowed themselves to become trapped by the wider public's expectations and perceptions of whatever it is they once stood for.
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
ablett
()
Date: January 30, 2009 19:02
F**k it, its friday and I'm going for a beer!
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
mofur
()
Date: January 30, 2009 19:06
Quote
The Sicilian
Maybe that is one reason why Mick Taylor and Bill Wyman headed for the exits.
Well, Bill kinda left 19 years after Mick - according to which source one believes, but officially it was 1993, no? - so, yeah, of course they left for the same reasons?
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
mofur
()
Date: January 30, 2009 19:19
Quote
iamthedj
I wonder how Mick and Keith feel when they see their contemporaries (Dylan, Springsteen, Bowie, Aerosmith) still recieving critical acclaim and huge sales for their current albums.
Areosmith, really? Critical acclaim? Huge sales? For their last albums? I must have been sleeping
Lest we forget, "A Bigger Bang" actually did exceptionally well on the critical front and - IMO - pretty good sales for a band that had been around for more than 42 years at the time. They were the number one selling band in the world for three weeks running, selling app. 2,5 millions copies in an ever narrowing market.
At the end of the day, I don't give a rat's ass for critical acclaim or huge sales - what do I like - that is what counts.
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: January 30, 2009 19:29
I don't agree with some of the posts here. I think they have easily written many good songs since Dirty Work or 89. It's what they do with them that ruins the songs.
For starters it gets harder to find the good song underneath a lot of the digital gloss and clinical preciseness.
There is no big muse that has flown the coup. Babylon is full of excellent songs, Wandering Spirit and "offender and Talk is Cheap. Every album has good ones. But they used to take them on the road and really work them out; change them to give them their actual identity. That is what they have lost.
For starters it gets harder to find the good song underneath a lot of the digital gloss and clinical preciseness.
There is no big muse that has flown the coup. Babylon is full of excellent songs, Wandering Spirit and "offender and Talk is Cheap. Every album has good ones. But they used to take them on the road and really work them out; change them to give them their actual identity. That is what they have lost.
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
Barn Owl
()
Date: January 30, 2009 19:29
Quote
ablett
Owl's drink beer?
I'll drink ANYTHING!
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: January 30, 2009 19:55
Quote
T&AQuote
VoodooLounge13Quote
DizzyDutch
it's getting a bit boring, i mean... since Voodoo (1994) we've had the same record producer and studio albums, the same tour staff, the same kind of greatest hits world tour... it has all more or less been the same since 1994 guys! that's 15 years of the same shit every once in a while. when are they waking up, and try something different, a fresh start.
As long as we continue to pay they have no reason to do any different.
really? relevance? integrity?
T&A,
I meant in terms of them regurgitating the same show over and over again. No need to reinvent what appears to still be working. People still pay the astronomical prices to see the same show, all of us included.
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
T&A
()
Date: January 30, 2009 20:07
many stopped going to these reruns several tours ago, actually. but, if your definition of "still working" means fans still flock to the shows en masse, then I'm merely suggesting there are other definitions of success that perhaps warrant some investigation....
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: January 30, 2009 20:18
That's it then. Beer break for one and all. My round. What are you guys having and where's the pub Ablett?
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
mofur
()
Date: January 30, 2009 20:41
Quote
Silver Dagger
That's it then. Beer break for one and all. My round. What are you guys having and where's the pub Ablett?
Mmmmmm....beer.....droooool
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: January 30, 2009 20:44
Quote
T&A
many stopped going to these reruns several tours ago, actually. but, if your definition of "still working" means fans still flock to the shows en masse, then I'm merely suggesting there are other definitions of success that perhaps warrant some investigation....
I couldn't agree with you more, T&A, but unfortunately, I don't think they agree with us.
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
turd
()
Date: January 30, 2009 20:50
I like some of the Stones latter work, but, the thunder went out of their bellies a long time ago. They never got off the stupid mysogynistic themes, the dire dance disco 12" experiments were utter junk and you wonder how many more cliched riffs they can come up with.
In a way, I think they tried to hard to appeal to a more commercial market, which I suppose is the right thing to do if you're in business (and they are).
I buy it because there's always one or two songs that really stand out, but can they ever really produce an album of quality and brilliance again?
I happen to think not.
In a way, I think they tried to hard to appeal to a more commercial market, which I suppose is the right thing to do if you're in business (and they are).
I buy it because there's always one or two songs that really stand out, but can they ever really produce an album of quality and brilliance again?
I happen to think not.
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
S.T.P
()
Date: January 30, 2009 21:12
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I don't agree with some of the posts here. I think they have easily written many good songs since Dirty Work or 89. It's what they do with them that ruins the songs.
...Every album has good ones. But they used to take them on the road and really work them out; change them to give them their actual identity. That is what they have lost.
That is absolutely true! Look what they did in the old days with YCAGWYW, Midnight Rambler, Sympathy, Stray Cat Blues, Street Fighting Man, Live With Me, Love In Vain, and the list just goes on...
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
Fan Since 1964
()
Date: January 30, 2009 22:22
No the flame hasn't gone out!
It's on a quiet notion for now!
Soon "Sparks will fly" and we will all be happy!
Been Stoned since 1964 and still am!
It's on a quiet notion for now!
Soon "Sparks will fly" and we will all be happy!
Been Stoned since 1964 and still am!
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
Loudei
()
Date: January 30, 2009 22:39
go check on you tube Keith's solo on satisfaction in the super bowl performance... i think actions speak louder than words.
Re: Has the flame gone out?
Posted by:
windmelody
()
Date: January 30, 2009 22:44
The Stones remained on a high level longer than most bands, yet the Euro 2007 was not good musically, maybe it would be intelligent to stop now. They finished the abb tour in London where it all began, Shine a Light was a success, why should they risk to do a bad tour now. Yet I insist that their albums since 1989 feature rock'n'roll and blues at its best.
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