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Re: Old Berries
Posted by: CBII ()
Date: December 16, 2008 03:32

Hey, everyone has the right to their opinion and I have no say what goes on here. Mathis has derived an opinion from what he saw. That's just fine with me.

The guitar is always in perfect tune when we take the stage. As with many guitars, they go out of tune during a performance. There is no spare guitar in the wings awaiting a call to duty unlike Keith and Ron that have an arsenal at their disposal.

There's not much that can be done during the song unless he stops in the middle of it. There's a balance that must be taken in to consideration. Finish the song and hope for the best OR stop cold and address the tuning issue. Both have been done and without question, stopping in the middle of a tune is about the WORST thing possible for keeping the audience captivated. SleepyCity made a good point here. There are other segments of the AVO session that should be taken a look at.

There's certainly much truth to the fact as long as people are willing to cough up their hard earned Dollars, Euro's, Reas, Sheckels, Rubels, Yen or whatever the currency, he and some or all of us will be there to entertain and that's what 90% of an audience wants, to be entertained. If they walk out of the Heineken Music Hall, the Jazz Cafe or Blueberry Hill happy, that's all that really matters.

To quote a song I adore ... "It's only Rock N Roll, but I like it"

CBII



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-12-16 03:39 by CBII.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: December 16, 2008 12:12

Thanks CBII for your comments! It is a priviledge to have a voice from 'inside'.

Anyway, staying in tune has never been the biggest features of The Stones either. Some time ago here there was that story of Bill Wyman circulating from the late 60's when those automatic tuners (or whatever they were called)were brought in - Bill didn't need them, but recommended those to Keith who - according to Bill - always had difficulties in that department.

A good point is also the one by CBII of the arsenals of guitars (and guitar technicians, in fact) awaiting them aside. How many of us have 'guitar technician' cleaning our asses? Someone asked here once which deacde it was when Keith Richards last time tuned his own guitar....A sarcastic question, but still some truth in it. If one listens the bootlegs from their legendary days (late 60's-early 70's) it is difficult to find a gig where there is not Keith's guitar more or less out of tune, at least in few songs. Contrary, nowadays no matter how awful the guitar department might otherwise sound, at least the guitars are in tune. (Also Mick used to sing more out of tune like he does nowadays)

Perhaps we should open an individual thread to discuss these kind of matter in regard to the Stones. Namely, the Stones are not really musicians mastered playing or singing in tune, but it doesn't really bother them or us. I have some friends who have very 'sensitive' ears and they claim that they cannot listen the Stones due this factor. I once tried to watch LET'S SPEND THE NIGHT TOGETHER concert movie with one of them, and he kindly asked to take it off due this very reason. The suckers just don't get it!

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-12-16 12:16 by Doxa.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: still ill ()
Date: December 16, 2008 12:14

Quote
CBII
Hey, everyone has the right to their opinion and I have no say what goes on here. Mathis has derived an opinion from what he saw. That's just fine with me.

The guitar is always in perfect tune when we take the stage. As with many guitars, they go out of tune during a performance. There is no spare guitar in the wings awaiting a call to duty unlike Keith and Ron that have an arsenal at their disposal.

There's not much that can be done during the song unless he stops in the middle of it. There's a balance that must be taken in to consideration. Finish the song and hope for the best OR stop cold and address the tuning issue. Both have been done and without question, stopping in the middle of a tune is about the WORST thing possible for keeping the audience captivated. SleepyCity made a good point here. There are other segments of the AVO session that should be taken a look at.

There's certainly much truth to the fact as long as people are willing to cough up their hard earned Dollars, Euro's, Reas, Sheckels, Rubels, Yen or whatever the currency, he and some or all of us will be there to entertain and that's what 90% of an audience wants, to be entertained. If they walk out of the Heineken Music Hall, the Jazz Cafe or Blueberry Hill happy, that's all that really matters.

To quote a song I adore ... "It's only Rock N Roll, but I like it"

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: still ill ()
Date: December 16, 2008 12:26

If your still reading CB11 ,can i just say how much pleasure i get from playing your dads songs.To me there is nothing more satisfiying than launching into a 'Berry' solo and if i'm still doing it at 82,i'll be a happy man.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Doc ()
Date: December 16, 2008 13:08

Chuck Berry is a living legend.
I went to see him live a few years ago, and I was kinda disapointed by the guitar playing, even if his voice was awesome.

I went there to see the creator of rock n roll.
I saw THE man, and I will probably forget that it wasn't perfect, because I am glad I could see him. I kinda paid my tribute to the music I like.

Would I see him again ?
Yes, but I can't afford the ticket prices. His shows are really expensive, considering the fact that he plays about 1 hour. I don't expect him to play more, but I won't pay the price for that anymore.

[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Sleepy City ()
Date: December 16, 2008 13:10

Quote
CBII
...SleepyCity made a good point here. There are other segments of the AVO session that should be taken a look at...








Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Loudei ()
Date: December 16, 2008 13:24

Not bad for a 82 yearold....I think he plays better than Keith right now.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: marcovandereijk ()
Date: December 16, 2008 13:55

Quote
CBII
If they walk out of the Heineken Music Hall, the Jazz Cafe or Blueberry Hill happy, that's all that really matters.

Yeah.

Fact is, seeing the Man in front of you, with the glimmer in his eye and the smile on his lips,
you can not leave the venue without feeling happy.
Going to see Chuck Berry in the flesh is not a matter of hearing great music performed
to perfection. You can bore yourself to death with other acts if you want that. It is plain and
simple about having fun. Those shows are not made to be watched at youtube.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Sleepy City ()
Date: December 16, 2008 14:12

Quote
marcovandereijk
Quote
CBII
If they walk out of the Heineken Music Hall, the Jazz Cafe or Blueberry Hill happy, that's all that really matters.

Yeah.

Fact is, seeing the Man in front of you, with the glimmer in his eye and the smile on his lips,
you can not leave the venue without feeling happy.
Going to see Chuck Berry in the flesh is not a matter of hearing great music performed
to perfection. You can bore yourself to death with other acts if you want that. It is plain and
simple about having fun. Those shows are not made to be watched at youtube.

Very well put. One reason I tend to defend Chuck Berry over Jerry Lee Lewis (despite the latter being my favourite performer) is because Chuck still seems to be very into performing (despite often sounding incredibly sloppy), & is clearly having a ball up there. Jerry Lee Lewis on the other hand often plays perfectly but doesn't talk to the audience, & looks like he just wants to get the show over as soon as possible.

And as Keith said, Chuck has such a powerful charisma that he can get away with playing badly, & that's very true!

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: duke richardson ()
Date: December 16, 2008 14:25

>>The guitar is always in perfect tune when we take the stage. As with many guitars, they go out of tune during a performance. There is no spare guitar in the wings awaiting a call to duty unlike Keith and Ron that have an arsenal at their disposal.<<

you could also do this, couldn't you?

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: December 16, 2008 15:12

Quote
Doxa

I once tried to watch LET'S SPEND THE NIGHT TOGETHER concert movie with one of them, and he kindly asked to take it off due this very reason. The suckers just don't get it!

- Doxa

I read an interesting book on how the human brain reacts to music. Scientific evidence tends to demonstrate that music is perceived differently from person to person, so (it seems) it is perfectly normal that what is annoying for one may be irrelevant for others.

As for Chuck Berry, I saw him only once and it was a great concert and experience. That said I can remember that he gave some hard time to the on stage guitar people (yes, he had some). And from the very beginning! He came out, picked up his guitar, started strumming, heard nothing, turned up the volume on the amp, still nothing, then he realized that he had the volume knobs on the guitar turned to 0. What followed was close to AC/DC covering Chuck Berry ...

C



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-12-16 15:12 by liddas.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 16, 2008 15:29

Apart from the fact that on the posted clip Berrie's guitar is very out of tune,he still plays with a great sensitivity ,timing and feeling,but let's remember younger days: I hear Keith and even a bit of Taylor:





Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Doc ()
Date: December 16, 2008 18:37

Quote
liddas
I What followed was close to AC/DC covering Chuck Berry ...

I wish I was there !!!
At the show I saw him, his guitar was way out of tune too, and the bass player ended up leaving the stage to get it tuned.
Chuck was on stage alone with the drummer, holding the bass, and he made us live a great moment telling stories, and playing the bass.
The negative point is that the guitar didn't sound that much better afterwards

[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: SimonV ()
Date: December 16, 2008 18:54

Emm.. that beautiful (and terribly expensive) Gibson ES-3?? guitar can't stay in tune for a 3 minute song? And why doesn't Chuck have a spare guitar?

Simon
myspace.com/koningsimon

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 16, 2008 19:39

Quote
SimonV
Emm.. that beautiful (and terribly expensive) Gibson ES-3?? guitar can't stay in tune for a 3 minute song? And why doesn't Chuck have a spare guitar?

I guess if one of the bandmembers should have turned up the 3th string(?) he got the sack immediately?

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Sleepy City ()
Date: December 16, 2008 19:43

Why this obsession with being perfectly in tune? Many of the greatest records in Blues / Rhythm 'n' Blues / Rock 'n' Roll had slightly out of tune instruments! If you want "in tune" then go & see Madonna, not Chuck Berry...

It's the FEELING that's most important: compare Bo Diddley's original (out of tune) 'Before You Accuse Me' to Eric Claptons bland (but in tune) version.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-12-16 19:47 by Sleepy City.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: skipstone ()
Date: December 16, 2008 19:59

I think part of the problem with Keith is that he tends to sound like Chuck does in this video - he exception being that Keith is in tune.

I think the point of there being an expiration date on rock'n'roll is a valid point. What I'm not sure of is whether or not a not-in-tune guitar has to do with it. With the Stones I do think it's time to stop - because they've gotten really bad. Chuck is just as out of tune as he's ever been.

A friend of mine was working at Jazz Fest quite a few years ago. Chuck Berry played. He showed up to Jazz Fest with rusty strings on his guitar. Someone went to tune it and he threatened to leave. He had already gotten paid and had the money stickin' out his back pocket. He went onstage, rotten strings and the local pick up band and all and did his show and split.

He's never really seemed to care.

So Chuck's expiration date seems to be amiss because he doesn't care. The Stones have packaged some undenialble truth - with overdubs even - with The Biggest Bang - that it's time to stop. I love the Stones but this DVD has really opened my ears to what's going on. And save me the load of crap about how I wasn't there - I was at the Superdome show in 1994 and I have a live disc to that and it's just as bad as I remember it. And in fact it's worse.

Yeah, people can pay and keep going. That's great. It's very similar to ordering shark fin soup - it just encourages them to keep doing something bad and you depart with your money because of it.

Re: Old Berries
Date: December 16, 2008 20:38

I only wish he'd come play in Washington DC.

Frankly I find Mathjis diary very rude and in poor taste for a Stones board.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: skipstone ()
Date: December 16, 2008 20:43

Certainly Chuck Berry can afford to have a tuning pedal onstage that he can tune with between songs. Come on man, give me a break. That is such trollop. Chuck can't afford to have one or two guitars in the wings? Exactly - he won't be bothered to buy anymore.

Come on! I go out of tune during songs too but not like THAT.

What's the big deal with being in tune? Ummm - it sounds good? You don't pay money to go see a band be out of tune do you? I mean, unless you're idiotic enough to go see the Beach Boys. Nobody pays to hear out of tune music acts. That's not the point. Besides, if you are out of tune then you can't really play the tune now can ya?

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Koen ()
Date: December 16, 2008 20:44

Even if you're playing with a lot of feeling, if the guitar is out of tune most of the time, I find that an insult to the audience. If you're a professional, there should be no excuse for not having proper equipment. Heck, an onstage tuner only costs aboutt $150.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Loudei ()
Date: December 16, 2008 23:14

not bad for an 82 yearold.... Keith could play worse on any given day.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: December 16, 2008 23:50

Chuck was on fire in Mannheim last month. Although some of his other gigs were not as good I can't complain. It's a miracle we get to see him at all. Note to CB II, please come back to Germany soon. I'll be there for sure.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Lightnin' ()
Date: December 17, 2008 02:12

Quote
SimonV
Emm.. that beautiful (and terribly expensive) Gibson ES-3?? guitar can't stay in tune for a 3 minute song? And why doesn't Chuck have a spare guitar?

How much do you think it costs to maintain that fleet of cars back home in Missouri ?

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Loudei ()
Date: December 17, 2008 02:16

I am really surprised Chuck hasn't made a guest appearance on a Stones gig or special event. Like Bo Didley, Taj Mahal, Buddy Guy to name a few.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Lightnin' ()
Date: December 17, 2008 02:24

Quote
Loudei
I am really surprised Chuck hasn't made a guest appearance on a Stones gig or special event. Like Bo Didley, Taj Mahal, Buddy Guy to name a few.

This might have something to do with the write-up Chuck gets from their former bassplayer. I don't know this for a fact, but it could be an underlying reason.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: Sleepy City ()
Date: December 17, 2008 03:17

Quote
Loudei
I am really surprised Chuck hasn't made a guest appearance on a Stones gig or special event. Like Bo Didley, Taj Mahal, Buddy Guy to name a few.

I'm not.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: December 17, 2008 03:48

Thanks for the post CBII. I was wondering when you might weigh in. You made some valid points; if the audience is leaves the show happy, that's all that really matters,and that applies to all performances by all artists, including the Stones, who have put on their share of sub par shows. The last Stones show I saw was the worst I ever saw out of many I have seen yet others who were there loved it. Kudos to your dad for still doing what he loves. I hope I can be that active when I'm in my 80s!

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: skipstone ()
Date: December 17, 2008 05:43

When art is busy imitating itself then it's no longer art is it. There are plenty of examples.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: no spare yaps ()
Date: December 17, 2008 07:27

Chuck Berry is, in my opinion, the true "King Of Rock & Roll". I'll never forget years ago, when I was about 14 or 15, buying the "Great 28." I wore the grooves off that thing. Elvis who? No, Chuck Berry is the real deal.

You know, when you buy an album, and really enjoy it, those songs tend to become like friends. When you're feeling down, those songs can make you feel ok again. That, alone, is worthy of respect. Not to mention the history of the mans music. I don't care if he's a little out of tune. So what. I downloaded the Stones doing Tops from 1981 or 82, the other day, and its so bad at the beginning I cringe. But, I am glad they tried it out. Before the song starts, Jagger is ready to go, but Keith is smoking, and waited till he was finished with the smoke. Is that a pro at work?

People are damn lucky Chuck wants to do shows at all at his age. He certainly has earned the right to take it easy, but he continues to play shows. I, for one, would jump at the chance to see him. And I wouldn't get on a message board and cry or try to pick him apart. He is far too important for such a display of disrespect. I figure the man can make a mistake every once in a while, so what. It is the body of legendary songs the man has written that is most important.

Would the Stones or the Beatles, to name just two, be what they are, or in the Beatles case, were, without Chuck Berry? I don't know, but my guess is they would be different. As would I. I wouldn't want to go through life without the music of this man. It is that important. Would Get Yer Ya Ya's Out be as great without two Berry songs on it? No.

Then we get to the age issue. Some people think (for lack of a better term) that people should just give up at a certain age. That maybe if you can't do your best, like when you were young, that you should not even try. Tell me that when I'm 82, and if possible I'll knock you on your ass. Chuck berry is still going, and I'm proud of that fact. You keep on rocking, Mr. Berry. Its the same issue the stones are going through-are they too old to do this? Well, I don't think so, and hope they don't either.

The day will come when these legends are gone. Then you will look back and your little petty and pathetic gripes will be seen for what they truly are: Bullshit.

Re: Old Berries
Posted by: skipstone ()
Date: December 17, 2008 07:40

Ah ya gotta love the people that hang on to what is there!

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