The recently circulating tape from this tour containing Down the Road Apiece (short ver), Time is on my Side and ENSTL, seems a much clearer recording than the offically released "Got Live If You Want It" EP.

Where did this tape come from? and where is the rest of it? Who holds the complete live recordings from this tour? Who could we approach to get them released?

If anyone can post any more high quality recordings from this UK 1965 tour that would be fantastic.

I have waited 42 years to hear again "Down the Road Apiece" from this tour.But where are "Little Red Rooster", "The Last Time" etc.???

Kingbeebuzz

you bring up an extremely interesting topic because I often asked myself what the story is about the sudden appearance 'out of nowwhere' of these three 1965 live outtakes after all these years!!! I couldnt believe it until I finally heard the live "Down The Road Apiece" from UK 1965 for the first time and I nearly got a heart attack after a couple of seconds into the song and realzing that its indeed the real deal and no fake! the question is indeed if those three additional tracks are just the tip of the iceberg and if theres more material from 1965 in collectors hands or if those three tracks are the only ones which somehow, at an unknown point in recent decades, 'escaped' from the official vaults where the rest of the 1965 shows are buried.

as a collector who is specialised in vintage Stones material I would prefer more such great discoveries from the 60s to any more live tapes from recent tours any day!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-30 02:44 by alimente.

Hi Guys..Who holds the tapes..Probably those idiots at ABKCO..THE WORLDS WORST RECORD COMPANY....



SOULSURVIVOR

i often wonder if abkco even has the unreleased material anymore, and if they do have they taken good care of the tapes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-30 04:00 by ghostryder13.

Were these songs posted ?

I don't know but most likely the tracks came from an acetate.

James Karnbach once told me that Andrew Oldham has the reels of a few tracks. He (James) seems to have the majority of the studio-tapes and even A.Klein/ABKCO might have the one or the other track.

But defenitely ABKCO is not holding the tapes and if they'd like (and in case they were allowed to) to release something old they'd need the help and tapes of others.

silkcut

[www.sendspace.com]


1965-RSG-05 Down Road Apiece-Jan 15.mp3

silkcut1978 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He (James) seems to
> have the majority of the studio-tapes and even
> A.Klein/ABKCO might have the one or the other
> track.


its probably a misunderstanding but do you really want to say that JAMES KARNBACH 'seems to have the majority of the studio-tapes' ??? but if this is indeed the case, this would be an interesting story - and if yes, it begs the question why he is in possession of those tapes.

alimente Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> silkcut1978 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > He (James) seems to
> > have the majority of the studio-tapes and even
> > A.Klein/ABKCO might have the one or the other
> > track.
>
>
> its probably a misunderstanding but do you really
> want to say that JAMES KARNBACH 'seems to have the
> majority of the studio-tapes' ??? but if this is
> indeed the case, this would be an interesting
> story - and if yes, it begs the question why he is
> in possession of those tapes.

alimente - I take it as a fact that James is the one with the most extensive collection of studio-reels from the 60s and part of the 70s. We had contact for a short period about 10 years ago and exchanged a few emails until he phoned me up one day with a long distance call ;-) I think it's not of interest for you why we got in contact but I'm still thinking of the things and stories he told me while we were talking (in fact HE talked and I listened;-)

still his book with all it's errors is the real thing for every stones-collector and I really think that he knows what he's talking about. maybe he also told me how he got into this position but if I'm not wrong he shares a few details in his book as well?! Time to have another look into this gem...

anyway, a nice guy but a trade didn't work out in the end - maybe I was asking for too much, who knows:-)

another interesting story in this context is that he once gave away a copy of both El Mocambo-shows to a German collector. the story is confirmed so far although I could never find a proof that it was really James who gave em away...but on the other hand, who else could have done it?

still I find it hard to believe that this guy from Germany (met him in the tube in London after the show on Aug.26 but we didn't talk to each other as he only knows my name and not how I look like) NEVER copied his tapes for his best friends in Teutschland. but if he did they can really keep a secret I tell ya...


silkcut

Which boot title are these 3 tracks on?

silkcut - of course, I dont doubt the possibility that James owns copies (cassetes or reel to reel tapes) of original master tape reels. but the original masters? one would think that these are in the hands of Klein-ABKCO, Oldham as their producer until 1967 or the Stones themselves, at least from 1967 onwards. if indeed a private person like James owns the ORIGINALS (and not copies, which would be interesting enough already!!!), it really begs the question WHY. did the parties mentioned (Klein, Oldham or Stones) at one point in time cosider unreleased material as 'unusable trash' and threw them away or sold them to the first person who showed some interest - just to get rid of the tapes and gain free space in the office archives? or was James so close to the Stones or the other parties that at one point in time they gave him the unused tapes to safely store them?

the sheer thought that original master tapes of such high historical value are not (as in the Beatles case) safely stored away in professional hands but in the hands of a private collector frightens me a bit.

the story of the Stones official (vintage) tapes is a bit murky to say the least. a couple of years the story went around that ABCKO threw a load of tapes away in the 'dustbin' at a time when they moved to a new office in New York and that a lot of Stones tapes were 'rescued' by a fan or a group of fans. truth or myth?

Anybody has the three tracks you're writing about and can post them? Guess I'm not the only one interested to listen to. Or, can you address us to the source?

Hi all and thanks for all the info in this thread.
The three tracks were posted here some time ago but i can't find them or who posted them.
Here is the link to the three tracks which I have only in MP3.
Many thanks to the original poster who ever you are.
I have never tried to upload tracks before so please be patient if the link does not work.

[rapidshare.com]

The content of the tapes could be anything, from multitracks to finished mixes for albums. This makes me wonder why James would get info on who played what wrong!?

I contacted Olympic Sound Studios last year and they told me that when Richard Branson bought Olympic( in the late 80's?), they emptied out the place. Didn't Jimmy Miller posses old Olympic tapes which then ended up being sold at an auction at sotheby's?

Tks kingbee , I really apreciated.

> the story of the Stones official (vintage) tapes
> is a bit murky to say the least. a couple of years
> the story went around that ABCKO threw a load of
> tapes away in the 'dustbin' at a time when they
> moved to a new office in New York and that a lot
> of Stones tapes were 'rescued' by a fan or a group
> of fans. truth or myth?


Sounds like a bit of confusion. Everything I've heard about ABKCO and Klien himself (including info. from James) is that while ABKCO may not be aware of _exactly_ what they have, they most certainly would not be throwing anything away.

The 'dustbin' stories I have heard relate to Olympic studios (the infamous 'Who's Next' tapes that got picked out of the trash) and the BBC.

And, yes, many of those high quality outtakes reels were auctioned at Southeby's, but I do not believe they were trash-picked.

As for James' collection: yes, he does have actual master reels from studio sessions. Seen some, heard some.

Unlike The Beatles, the Stones recorded in MANY different locations - having all of their sessions' masters collected and housed in one location would have been a logistical nightmare for sure. Even ABKCO doesn't have _all_ of the master reels for _every_ session

J.

JMARKO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like a bit of confusion.

probably, but then: I have heard about the dustbin ABKCO story about a couple of years (about five) before the dustbin Olympic story made the rounds. of course its possible, but the time span between those stories would indicate otherwise.


> Everything I've heard about ABKCO and Klien himself (including
> info. from James) is that while ABKCO may not be
> aware of _exactly_ what they have,

its really strange that if you have such a diamond among your artist roster, a company like ABKCO does not invest time and effort to do a detailed inventory to categorize exactly what they have, isnt it?


> certainly would not be throwing anything away.

I cant imagine this too, thats why I always doubted this story, but my source from USA (actually New York) insisted the story to be true, he even mentioned the discussions amongst a certain group of fans from (New York?), calling ABKCO names for doing what they did, like 'idots', 'dickheads', 'not knowing what theyre doing' etc. I suggested that if indeed tapes were thrown away, those were probably working tapes for office use, safety copies, but not actual multitracks or original mono or stereo masters - as I knew that amongst fans there is often a lot of confusion when talking about these terms.

> As for James' collection: yes, he does have actual
> master reels from studio sessions. Seen some,
> heard some.

did you actually hear something real worthwile like stuff which is not documented anywhere or at least unavailable on bootlegs records and tapes (uncirculated material)? or just different mixes of released material and the kind? just curious!

> its really strange that if you have such a diamond
> among your artist roster, a company like ABKCO
> does not invest time and effort to do a detailed
> inventory to categorize exactly what they have,
> isnt it?

Yes and no. I couldn't tell you what I have in my collection, that's for sure.
Imagine the volumes of stuff they must have, and if it wasn't properly or accurately recorded when they first were given it how would they know unless they did a complete inventory -- which takes time and costs money, and ultimately could be a waste of both in the end.

And you hear about mistakes all the time: like the original Hot Rocks pressing or the 'wrong' version of "Time Is On My Side" getting used on something.


> I suggested that if indeed tapes were thrown away,
> those were probably working tapes for office use,
> safety copies, but not actual multitracks or
> original mono or stereo masters - as I knew that
> amongst fans there is often a lot of confusion
> when talking about these terms.

Sounds more likely. But then, something could have been mislabeled.



>
> did you actually hear something real worthwile

yes

> like stuff which is not documented anywhere

yes


>or at least unavailable on bootlegs records and tapes (uncirculated material)?

yes

> or just different mixes
> of released material and the kind? just curious!

yes.

Your head would spin, your heart would stop, and your ears would orgasm:

uncirculated professional films of live performances from 1965-2003; alternate versions of songs and or demos/unreleased tracks from all eras; studio sessions with take after take of mid - late 60s material (not Satanic sessions, but similar sounding tapes); television appearances from, oh, say 1968, that few have ever seen.

The list is endless. He's a good friend to have, and to stay in good standing with. And he'll probably give me a bunch of crap for posting this! ;-)

J