As I can tell that there are several people on IORR that are well experienced with computers and downloading techniques. I just want to know what type of file\format sounds the best. Eg, wav, flac, compressed, uncompressed and so on? And I can't thank you enough for all your help with posting boots and advice for free. It has opened up a whole new world for me.


Ain't it great to be a Stones Fan!

*.wav is the best uncompressed format of a flac file, files are big = 30-100 MB depending on the length of the song. Albumns/shows = 500MB-2GB common size

Do you mean flac file, uncompressed sounds the best? I read on IORR recently that someone believes i-Pods are not so good because their files are compressed. Is that true? Thanks.

I personnaly use the max mp3 320 kbps in maximum quality made by Creative Wave Studio from my Creative soundcard and it works very well!

Absolute quality if you want to listen your mp3 on your hifi insrallation !!

ok,
I burn discs using my I Pod. Should I convert my songs to 320 MP3 and then burn? Would that be the best sound for my car and home stereo?

If space is an issue, then use mp3. If it's not and you want it to sound as good as possible, then wav. But if you download mp3s don't bother converting them into wav, cause it won't improve the quality. In the future I'm buying a whole 'nother hard drive just for my music, so it can all be wav.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-14 05:01 by TatteredTongue.

It's a horrible wet Sunday afternoon here in Australia so here's a lesson in sound.

The best quality are .wav files, these are what you get when you buy a commercial cd, when you copy a cd you still get .wav. These are big files around 10mbs/minute so a typical 3-4 min song will be 30-40mbs.

You can COMPRESS files so they take up less space & there are basically 2 systems, LOSSY & LOSSLESS compression.

LOSSLESS compression will compress the file without any loss of sound quality. They will reduce the space by 1/3-1/2 or so. The most popular current system is FLAC. SHORTEN (.shn) is an older method still found sometimes, & WAVEPACK is another system tho not so common. If you have one of these files you can un-compress them & you will get the exact same original .wav quality.

You can get plug-ins for some cd burning proggies (such as Nero) which will enable you to burn these to cd without having to convert them first, your cd quality will be .wav. Similarly, you can get plug-ins for Winamp (& others) to play these compressed formats, & the sound quality will be exactly as if you're playing a .wav file.

I save my .wav files by first encoding them to .flac & then burning them as DATA onto dvd's. I can get 4-5 albums in the best quality on one dvd.

LOSSY compression, as the name implies, involves losing some of the sound data in the compression process & there are a bunch of different formats out there. The most popular is mp3, Microsoft has .wma (which they claim is better than mp3 but don't say why) ogg is another one, & there are more.

The higher the bitrate you use then the less quality you lose, so that an mp3 at 320 will sound better than one at 128, depending on how you listen to it (that's the important bit). If you're just listening to your mp3 player on earphones, walking down the street, on the train, etc, you're not going to hear any difference. If you've got a serious hi-fi system then yes, there will be differences. I have a modest stereo (NOT hi-fi) & at home, at a decent volume, I don't hear much difference between mp3's at 192 & .wav files.

There seems to be confusion about taking an mp3 at 128, say, & re-encoding it to 320 to get better quality. NOT SO. Remember, your 128 mp3 has been compressed & you've lost some sound in the process - you can't get it back! All you're doing is RE-COMPRESSING the file so you'll lose even more sound, & you don't want to do that.

Several years ago 128 was the standard bitrate for mp3's & I still see a lot of sites that use this, emusic is one (lots of folk/blues there & really cheap too). With the widespread use of broadband the standard, here at least, has gone up to 192.

Hope this has helped, it's still raining & my dog really wants to go for a walk, where's my umbrella....

Cafaro:

Re: your questions concerning ipod and bitrate.


To answer your question, you first have to consider where you got the music from in the first place.

(1) If your simply transferring music from an original CD (store bought) to your ipod, then the higher the bitrate, the better the sound. The downside is the higher the bitrate, the more space is required on the ipod. Truth be told, I don't think you need to go beyond 256 KB/s. Even 192 KB/s, depending on the source, is quite good. One further thing worth doing is saving these songs on your ipod as AAC files, not MP3. An AAC encoded song at 256 KB/s has better sound than a 256 KB/s MP3. The thing about an AAC track is that it is exclusive to APPLE and cannot be played on other MP3 players.

(2) For MP3's obtained from the internet or elsewhere, these tracks have already been compressed at a particular bitrate and should NOT be converted to a higher bitrate prior to burning them to CDR. As VOX, pointed out, information is lost when music is compressed and is not retrievable. You do not improve the sound quality by boosting the bitrate. Further, not much point in converting to AAC either although I sense a slight improvement in tonal quality when I converted an MP3 to AAC, using the same bitrate. The MP3 songs from the internet are supplied, using different bitrates, ranging from 128 KB/s (poorest) to 320 KB/s (best) but you don't have to worry about that. Just set the default import encoder to MP3 on itunes and do NOT convert them to a higher bitrate. You do more harm than good by boosting the bitrate never mind the increase in file size.

I suggest you set the default bitrate to either 256 KB/s or 320KB/s to deal with those songs that you are importing from original CD's.

You can burn your MP3's to CDR, no problem. The resulting sound quality will depend on the source material and the orignal bitrate used in compressing the MP3 tracks. Your stuck with whatever bitrate wa used.

For the songs imported from original CD's, you need to consider what your using to listen with when playing your ipod. Depending on whether your using earbugs or a good stereo system, will dictate how much your willing to degrade the music in terms of bitrate. I doubt anybody will need to go larger than 160 KB/s if you using the ipod's earbugs BUT playing through a good stereo system requires a higher bitrate. (recommend either 256 KB/s or 320 KB/s). This gets back to the space issue required on your ipod. The higher the bitrate, the larger the music file. Personnally; I've stored my songs on the ipod using 256 KB/s.

I hope this helps.

SFTD

Wav is the best, only the problem with this is sharing through the Internet, +/-50 MB per file.


FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) is a format that compresses audio files without any degradation in sound quality from the original. Unlike 'lossy' formats (eg. MP3, OGG, or WMA), which discard information during the compression process, the FLAC format uses 'lossless' compression to create a file that retains all information included in the original. The resulting file, however, is significantly smaller than an uncompressed WAV or AIFF file (although still much bigger than the 'lossy' formats). FLAC is a free format and is supported on most major operating systems.
More information on FLAC is available at: [flac.sourceforge.net]
A plug-in filter that enables FLAC files to be opened directly in Syntrillium's Cool Edit/Adobe Audition is available here.
A plug-in for WinAmp is available here.

WAV: These are the highest quality files, but also the largest. They are direct digital copies of the DATs and CDs provided by the presidential libraries and the National Archives. These files are best suited to intensive transcribing. NB: These files can be very large and are impractical to download unless you have a broadband connection. Once downloaded, they can also be slow to use on older computers. They are encoded as 44kHz, 16-bit Windows PCM WAV files.

WMA: Windows Media Audio format. These have lower sound quality and smaller file sizes. These files are best suited to general listening. Encoded at 32Kb/s, 44Khz, mono. WMA format can be opened in edit mode by several of the audio editors listed below.

OGG: OGG Vorbis format. These files are medium sound quality with medium file sizes and are a very good compromise for transcribing in cases where the WAV files are prohibitively large. The files in this format are particularly suited to telephone recordings or other conversations that are relatively clear and don't have a lot of background noise. These files are playable by many free audio players and some WAV editors such as Cool Edit 2000 (with plug-in) and SoundForge.

__________________________

WOW!. I didn't expect such a response. But thanks everyone. The sound cloud is begining to clear up.

The reason I prefer advice from people on IORR is that in stores sales people seem to have only one aim. But here the only aim is to help others. It's all extremely appreciated. 1,000 THANKS.

Thanks SFTD and to all. Hey vox....it's been raining in the Northeastern US for 1 week straight and it's going to go on for another 3 days. Our roof sprung a leak yesterday. The roof is only 5 years old.

We moved into this house 6 months ago after living in a nice, cared for-by someone else apartment! Now? We fix or pay someone to fix everything.

hi ! intresting.....info.
when i started used mp 3 ,,at the end of 90's..it was128 kb..and it was stones ibc demos 1963.i compared the sound. with my wave cd..i had my comp audio line out,and plugged aux in in my amp...the sounds then from mp 3 ,sounded like..it was no straight..treble.andthe bass was skipping..etc..
but one thing..many concerts..(aud rec) don't have the low and high freqvens,,
so tranfer these to mp 3..took away some noises..
but i love to have wave..and cover,,too.and put it onto my stereo...
and if it.'s high treble i cut the treble away.and some mid cut too..(the mid cut is singing and guitar(hendrix i had to cut middle .freq.so it,sounds varmer
anyone got a tip how to clean up bad sound ? it¨s welcome for me..
i wanna burn wave format onto dvd..so i can fill .with three or four cd:s.
onto dvd. how to do that..??????...iv'e got nero 7..

WAV as far as files go.

mp3 in 44100 / 192 are more than good enough.
But the wav-file is uncompressed, and the best, but it is 7 or 8 times larger than an mp3 in this format.

I still download files at 128 and 160, but prefer 192.
Some of my old cd-r burned from 128 mp3's don't sound that clear.

I recently put my B2B DVD and FF DVD onto my computer in Wav files. It takes up more space but the sound is friggin fantastic. With mp3's there is no noticable difference at low volume but when you crank it the tracks become muddier. It is more noticable with live recordings. Mainly the bass and treble. when I burn a cd with wav files it is of the same standard as an offical live release like No Security or Live licks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-15 07:49 by uz2bstoned.

Tekumseh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of my old cd-r burned from 128 mp3's don't
> sound that clear.


Isn't that because CD-Rs only last like a year? What happens when they crap out? Does the quality get shitier and shitier till the datas gone?

what happens to me,with old cd'r burned .from my first x 4 cd burner.second hand bought, (1999)the dvd player.(i play my cd onto it too,(better sound)
it couldn't read it ,,error reading,not all cd'r but a lot of them..so i had to rip them onto harddrive again.if that didn't work,i had to take the old cd player and rip from the soundcard..
there's alway's a good idea to do copy.and save the casette tape,

No offense vancouver but I can't understand your grammar really well. What country you from?

Hey Cafaro It's called being a home moaner... welcome to the club. i live on Long Island and we has 2.5 inches of rain on Friday and another inch on Saturday.

As far as converting from one format to another, I've always heard to avoid that, as you never actually gain anything (sound quality wise), but more than likely lose some of it.

For burning CDR's, WAV is the way to go.

For ripping to your digital music player, from what I've read, MP3 and WMA are identical at 128 kbps.

If space is an issue on your digital music player (as it was on mine...I squeezed over 10,000 songs on a 40GB one...with a little room to spare), and you need to drop down to say, 96 kbps, WMA is supposed to have better quality than MP3 below 128 kbps (and from my experimenting with it, seems to be true). Some sound great at that rate, but some I notice have a bit of a loss at the high end or some minor distortion.

If space is not an issue, MP3 supposedly has the edge over WMA when ripping at over 128 kbps.

Note: IPOD's can't use WMA, so you have less of a choice there.