Buy/Sell/Trade :
Talk
You're welcome. I'm still researching....
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07 ()
Date: July 17, 2007 16:39
kovach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How's this compare to "Very Ancient Thank You
> Kindly"?
>
> Aren't these both from the partially finished
> unreleased live album?
>
> I thought I read somewhere the song selection was
> slightly different, some songs seem speeded up,
> and one was stereo and the other mono, but can't
> remember which was which...
Ok I sent a cdr of this to Urban Steel, which I downloaded from a torrent. Some of these tracks are available on "Very Ancient" but they run too fast. They run at the correct speed on here. "Very Ancient" also has several audience sourced tracks. This is the actual '72 live album that was never released complete with overdubs and mixed for radio. The '72 live album portion ends with "Uptight/Satisfaction". I added a couple of bonus tracks, mainly to help complete Urban Steel's collection of '72 soundboard material.
++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: silkcut1978
Date: July 18, 2007 15:03
yes, but if you compare you can see that Sweet Virginia, RTJ & Uptight/SAT are from other shows (maybe more?).
Nico's hint at Uptight/Satisfaction (unidentified source) is based on the fact that the version from the acetate isn't on any of the tapes/LPs/CDs we already have. In other words it's not from Philadelphia for instance.
++++++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: silkcut1978
Date: July 18, 2007 15:18
UrbanSteel Wrote:
> Nice discussion ,
>
> Nico write in the comments ; Note: Some dates and
> places are unsure.
Yes, because there is no audience source for both Houston shows and for Philadelphia, 21.07. 1st - so in some cases one can only guess from which show a song may come from :-)
But fact is that there are complete sources for Philadelphia 20.07. and Philadelphia 21.07. (2nd show) - so it's easy for instance to say that Satisfaction on the acetate isn't from Philadelphia as it wasn't even played at the afternoon show on 21.07. (at least I think so, hope I don't mess it up in my memory ;-) and as it's not the same version as on the other 2 Philly shows.
There's only one thing to understand: bootleggers are trying to make money, that's their business. Personally I think something like "unreleased Live-LP" sells better than "another soundboard compilation" ;-) That's the reason why we got plenty of LPs and CDs in the last 20 years which said "unreleased blabla". But it's simply not true. until now the broadcast of the acetate is unreleased on LP/CD BECAUSE of the bad quality/bad equipment it was recorded. It's full of hiss, I think mono only and all in all not a listening pleasure. Would it be the other way (exc.stereo) I bet we'd have a ton of correct "unreleased LIVE-LP"-releases :-)
+++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: kovach
Date: July 18, 2007 17:24
Some of the KYMR songs must've been meant for the live album though since they were overdubbed, right?
+++++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07
Date: July 18, 2007 19:48
silkcut1978 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And THANK YOU for the upload of "Keep Your Motor
> Running" - besides the fact that it's not the
> Live-LP it's a killer-release and highly
> recommended. I think it can't get any better and
> I'm still enjoying this release a lot !
Silkcut........why do "Tumbling Dice", "All Down The Line", and "Bye Bye Johnny" have vocal overdubs if they were not intended for the live album?
You may well be correct but I wouldn't take Nico's site as a bible for Stones information. There are mistakes there just like any other source. Nico even says some of the dates are unsure. Nico claims that "All Down The Line" on the broadcast was from Houston 1st show. That may be true, but this version of "All Down The Line" on KYMR from Philadelphia #3 is overdubbed. So should we assume this is the actual version that would have been on the live album?
Some of these songs were to be on the album, or at the very least they were working on them for inclusion on the album.
The information that I got (which could be inaccurate) was that these songs were from a radio broadcast of the unreleased live album. Could it be possible that the Stones were working on different versions of the same songs for possible inclusion on the live album? For example, maybe they had two versions of "All Down The Line" that they were working on?
+++++
silkcut1978 Wrote:
Tumbling, let me try to explain my point of view:
first of all the facts: the acetate of the unreleased LIVE-LP was broadcast by WMMS - so at least we have something like a "final" version. the running order might be wrong but who knows, I can't tell as I've never seen the acetate.
Tumbling Dice is the same version here (KYMR) and there (acetate). So why do we have overdubs on Bye Bye Johnny (which is missing on the acetate) and All Down The Line (different source)? I can't tell but what I can say is that they did the very same with Love You live - they've reworked for instance at least 3 versions of Fingerprint File and even songs like Ain't Too proud To Beg and Street Fighting Man which you can't find on the final release. This is confirmed and not only written on Nico's site without confirmation.
Yeah, and now I've read your posting again and realized that you figured out the same possibility ;-)
Finally let me quote your last sentence "But I'm sure that at least SOME of
> these songs were intended for the live album.' SURE, at least the first five songs from KYMR are from the same show as on the acetate :-)
So my personal conclusion: Keep Your Motor Running might be
a) a clever compilation of already available material coincidentally congruent with the "final" product - or -
b) maybe taken from another acetate/tape which might have been something like a first idea how it could have been in the end or even from a later stage - maybe the broadcast based on a very early produced record.
Anyway, whenever there's talkin' about the "unreleased Live LP" I prefer to refer to the broadcast as it was the only public airing - everything else is more likely - but not definitely - a bootlegger's invention.
+++++++
Tornandfrayed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you have this tape?
> Unitl I´ll hear a confirmed tape of this alleged
> broadcast, I´m still convinced that the KYMR CD is
> the unreleased live album. It all makes perfect
> sense to me (overdubs on most of the songs, track
> selection, etc...).
[iorr.org]
You're welcome. I'm still researching....
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07
Date: July 17, 2007 16:39
kovach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How's this compare to "Very Ancient Thank You
> Kindly"?
>
> Aren't these both from the partially finished
> unreleased live album?
>
> I thought I read somewhere the song selection was
> slightly different, some songs seem speeded up,
> and one was stereo and the other mono, but can't
> remember which was which...
Ok I sent a cdr of this to Urban Steel, which I downloaded from a torrent. Some of these tracks are available on "Very Ancient" but they run too fast. They run at the correct speed on here. "Very Ancient" also has several audience sourced tracks. This is the actual '72 live album that was never released complete with overdubs and mixed for radio. The '72 live album portion ends with "Uptight/Satisfaction". I added a couple of bonus tracks, mainly to help complete Urban Steel's collection of '72 soundboard material.
++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: silkcut1978
Date: July 18, 2007 15:03
yes, but if you compare you can see that Sweet Virginia, RTJ & Uptight/SAT are from other shows (maybe more?).
Nico's hint at Uptight/Satisfaction (unidentified source) is based on the fact that the version from the acetate isn't on any of the tapes/LPs/CDs we already have. In other words it's not from Philadelphia for instance.
++++++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: silkcut1978
Date: July 18, 2007 15:18
UrbanSteel Wrote:
> Nice discussion ,
>
> Nico write in the comments ; Note: Some dates and
> places are unsure.
Yes, because there is no audience source for both Houston shows and for Philadelphia, 21.07. 1st - so in some cases one can only guess from which show a song may come from :-)
But fact is that there are complete sources for Philadelphia 20.07. and Philadelphia 21.07. (2nd show) - so it's easy for instance to say that Satisfaction on the acetate isn't from Philadelphia as it wasn't even played at the afternoon show on 21.07. (at least I think so, hope I don't mess it up in my memory ;-) and as it's not the same version as on the other 2 Philly shows.
There's only one thing to understand: bootleggers are trying to make money, that's their business. Personally I think something like "unreleased Live-LP" sells better than "another soundboard compilation" ;-) That's the reason why we got plenty of LPs and CDs in the last 20 years which said "unreleased blabla". But it's simply not true. until now the broadcast of the acetate is unreleased on LP/CD BECAUSE of the bad quality/bad equipment it was recorded. It's full of hiss, I think mono only and all in all not a listening pleasure. Would it be the other way (exc.stereo) I bet we'd have a ton of correct "unreleased LIVE-LP"-releases :-)
+++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: kovach
Date: July 18, 2007 17:24
Some of the KYMR songs must've been meant for the live album though since they were overdubbed, right?
+++++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07
Date: July 18, 2007 19:48
silkcut1978 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And THANK YOU for the upload of "Keep Your Motor
> Running" - besides the fact that it's not the
> Live-LP it's a killer-release and highly
> recommended. I think it can't get any better and
> I'm still enjoying this release a lot !
Silkcut........why do "Tumbling Dice", "All Down The Line", and "Bye Bye Johnny" have vocal overdubs if they were not intended for the live album?
You may well be correct but I wouldn't take Nico's site as a bible for Stones information. There are mistakes there just like any other source. Nico even says some of the dates are unsure. Nico claims that "All Down The Line" on the broadcast was from Houston 1st show. That may be true, but this version of "All Down The Line" on KYMR from Philadelphia #3 is overdubbed. So should we assume this is the actual version that would have been on the live album?
Some of these songs were to be on the album, or at the very least they were working on them for inclusion on the album.
The information that I got (which could be inaccurate) was that these songs were from a radio broadcast of the unreleased live album. Could it be possible that the Stones were working on different versions of the same songs for possible inclusion on the live album? For example, maybe they had two versions of "All Down The Line" that they were working on?
+++++
silkcut1978 Wrote:
Tumbling, let me try to explain my point of view:
first of all the facts: the acetate of the unreleased LIVE-LP was broadcast by WMMS - so at least we have something like a "final" version. the running order might be wrong but who knows, I can't tell as I've never seen the acetate.
Tumbling Dice is the same version here (KYMR) and there (acetate). So why do we have overdubs on Bye Bye Johnny (which is missing on the acetate) and All Down The Line (different source)? I can't tell but what I can say is that they did the very same with Love You live - they've reworked for instance at least 3 versions of Fingerprint File and even songs like Ain't Too proud To Beg and Street Fighting Man which you can't find on the final release. This is confirmed and not only written on Nico's site without confirmation.
Yeah, and now I've read your posting again and realized that you figured out the same possibility ;-)
Finally let me quote your last sentence "But I'm sure that at least SOME of
> these songs were intended for the live album.' SURE, at least the first five songs from KYMR are from the same show as on the acetate :-)
So my personal conclusion: Keep Your Motor Running might be
a) a clever compilation of already available material coincidentally congruent with the "final" product - or -
b) maybe taken from another acetate/tape which might have been something like a first idea how it could have been in the end or even from a later stage - maybe the broadcast based on a very early produced record.
Anyway, whenever there's talkin' about the "unreleased Live LP" I prefer to refer to the broadcast as it was the only public airing - everything else is more likely - but not definitely - a bootlegger's invention.
+++++++
Tornandfrayed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you have this tape?
> Unitl I´ll hear a confirmed tape of this alleged
> broadcast, I´m still convinced that the KYMR CD is
> the unreleased live album. It all makes perfect
> sense to me (overdubs on most of the songs, track
> selection, etc...).
[iorr.org]
Yes. These tracks that were apparently thought for release on the 1972 live album - e.g. on Very Ancient or Keep Your Motor Runnin' - are heavily overdubbed (as for all official live LPs). For example You Can't Always Get what You Want (that we only have in mono) is the same version from Houston 1st show as on Ladies And Gentlemen. But they edited out some vocals (no verses but shouts and improvisation by Mick). Also Happy is the same version as in the movie and different though.
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The Great Lost Live Album
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: September 24, 2023 04:59
The Great Lost Live Album
Unknown Album title
ROLLING STONES RECORDS
Date: October 1972
Mixing at Olympic Studios
Only cover slicks exists
Not released
Track listing: (unsure)
- Brown Sugar
- Bitch
- Gimme Shelter
- Tumbling Dice
- Sweet Virginia
- You Can´t Always Get What You Want
- All Down The Line
- Bye Bye Johnny
- Rip This Joint
- Uptight/Satisfaction
Note: A live compilation from the American Tour 1972, mainly from Philadelphia
20th/21st July, some from Houston 25th June and Forth Worth 24th June.
This track listing came from various sources; actually these are remixed
soundboard recordings which were taped or pressed to acetates and get their way
to unauthorized records (ex.: "Keep Your Motor Runnin`" LP YY4U72-A
and a
US radio broadcast *, for what was thought to be this album.
This could be a gatefold double album with Stevie Wonder as opening act on disc 1
as planned before to "Get Yer Ya Ya-Ya´s Out".
*US Radio WMMS/Radio Cleveland 11th August 1972
(Broadcast of the unreleased 1972 Tour album)
- You Can´t Always Get What You Want
- Sweet Virginia
- Bitch
- All Down The Line
- Happy
- Tumbling Dice
- Rip This Joint
- Gimme Shelter
- Brown Sugar
- Uptight/Satisfaction
(according to Nico Zentgraf [www.nzentgraf.de] )
Note: Oddly two songs in this broadcast are from different shows, "Happy" is from the "Ladies & Gentleman, The Rolling Stones" movie soundtrack, and still some dates are unsure.
[rollingstonesvaults.blogspot.com]
Unknown Album title
ROLLING STONES RECORDS
Date: October 1972
Mixing at Olympic Studios
Only cover slicks exists
Not released
Track listing: (unsure)
- Brown Sugar
- Bitch
- Gimme Shelter
- Tumbling Dice
- Sweet Virginia
- You Can´t Always Get What You Want
- All Down The Line
- Bye Bye Johnny
- Rip This Joint
- Uptight/Satisfaction
Note: A live compilation from the American Tour 1972, mainly from Philadelphia
20th/21st July, some from Houston 25th June and Forth Worth 24th June.
This track listing came from various sources; actually these are remixed
soundboard recordings which were taped or pressed to acetates and get their way
to unauthorized records (ex.: "Keep Your Motor Runnin`" LP YY4U72-A
and aUS radio broadcast *, for what was thought to be this album.
This could be a gatefold double album with Stevie Wonder as opening act on disc 1
as planned before to "Get Yer Ya Ya-Ya´s Out".
*US Radio WMMS/Radio Cleveland 11th August 1972
(Broadcast of the unreleased 1972 Tour album)
- You Can´t Always Get What You Want
- Sweet Virginia
- Bitch
- All Down The Line
- Happy
- Tumbling Dice
- Rip This Joint
- Gimme Shelter
- Brown Sugar
- Uptight/Satisfaction
(according to Nico Zentgraf [www.nzentgraf.de] )
Note: Oddly two songs in this broadcast are from different shows, "Happy" is from the "Ladies & Gentleman, The Rolling Stones" movie soundtrack, and still some dates are unsure.
[rollingstonesvaults.blogspot.com]
Re: The Great Lost Live Album
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: September 24, 2023 14:43
More rarities from the 1972 STP tour, simply the best rolling stones tour hands down. - Gary Rocks
This is an original concert tour handbill flyer for the Rolling Stones' 1972 American Tour live LP that was never released.
The artist was Don Wilson.
The artwork is stunning. Reminiscent of the Art Deco style seen in the early jazz posters from the 1920’s-30’s.
Often referred to as “The Great Lost Live Album.”
There was also a flyer of Stevie Wonder on the back cover.
This is from the few ever printed only to be used in the photograph on the front cover of the LP.
Measures 10'' x 6.75'' printed in black on thin newsprint.
- from the collection of Gary Rocks
[garyrocks.wordpress.com]
This is an original concert tour handbill flyer for the Rolling Stones' 1972 American Tour live LP that was never released.
The artist was Don Wilson.
The artwork is stunning. Reminiscent of the Art Deco style seen in the early jazz posters from the 1920’s-30’s.
Often referred to as “The Great Lost Live Album.”
There was also a flyer of Stevie Wonder on the back cover.
This is from the few ever printed only to be used in the photograph on the front cover of the LP.
Measures 10'' x 6.75'' printed in black on thin newsprint.
- from the collection of Gary Rocks
[garyrocks.wordpress.com]
Re: The Great Lost Live Album
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: September 25, 2023 00:01
What is the " The Lost Live Album " from 1972?
What is the " The Lost Live Album " from 1972?
What is the " The Lost Live Album " from 1972?
[iorr.org]
Quote
S.T.P
stone-relics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's the same thing...Stones wanted to release a
> double LP of the tour, 1 LP with the Stones the
> other of Stevie Wonder....Too many legal
> hassels...
-It was supposed to be three sides of the Stones and one with Stevie Wonder + Uptight/Satisfaction as the encore.
>but its all out anyway on boots...
-There are soundboard recordings from some of the concerts that were recorded for the album, although there are at least two (Houston) missing. There are also some recordings which have been worked on in studio with overdubs. Most likely these are "leftovers" that won't be used in a future release. In general, the boots are not even close to be compared with an official release from this period. The Stones had the best mobile recorder in the world at that time, and also they probably did a lot of overdubbing. Theoretically, there are probably nothing available out on bootlegs that is close to what a future release would sound like...
What is the " The Lost Live Album " from 1972?
Quote
tatters
Once again, this IS NOT a bootleg of the unreleased live album that is in the Stones vaults. It is a chopped up rehash of tracks from other, better, '72 bootlegs.
What is the " The Lost Live Album " from 1972?
Quote
Erik_Snow
"Very Ancient, Thank You Kindly" is basically the CD release of some old albums like "Keep Your Motor Runnin", which was released long time ago. Yes, there's overdubs there. Very prominent on Tumbling Dice...that comes to mind immediately.
++
They wanted to release a double-album with Stevie Wonder on one side at least, and rest Stones.
But Allen Klein wouldn't let them release new versions of Decca-songs, the first 5 years after leaving Decca. That's why they had to wait until "Love You Live". But, they did try to put it together...a bit...or perhaps they did they overdubs in their "free time".
But there's several overdubs...both guitars and piano, at least.
But there are other posters here who are experts on 1972.
Quote
bruno
Besides instrumental overdubs, some studio-mixed versions feature "new" backing vocals on some songs, too: at least Tumbling Dice and All Down The Line do, as Keef didn't sing backing vocals live on these songs back in 1972.
Quote
Beelyboy
this version of All Down The Line absolutely kills me...
kills me...
incredible...gawd it rocks...unbelievable...
sounds like the band speeds up like crazy during mick's guitar solo...
then just crazy hot....crazy hot. wow.
keith is fierce here...the whole band is...
this is just amazing music.
Quote
Tornandfrayed
silkcut1978 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> see what Nico writes about it:
>
> --------------
>
> 11th August 1972 THE ROLLING STONES. US radio
> (WMMS)/(Radio Cleveland).
> Broadcast of the unreleased 1972 tour
> live-album.
>
> - You Can't Always Get What You Want (MJ/KR) -
> Houston 25.6.72, 1st show
> - Sweet Virginia (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 21.7.72,
> 1st show
> - Bitch (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.7.72
> - All Down The Line (MJ/KR) -Houston 25.6.72, 1st
> show
> - Happy (MJ/KR) -Fort Worth 24.6.72, 1st show
> - Tumbling Dice (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.7.72
> - Rip This Joint (MJ/KR)-Fort Worth 24.6.72, 1st
> show
> - Gimme Shelter (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.7.72
> - Brown Sugar (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.7.72
> - Uptight/Satisfaction (Sylvia Moy/Henry
> Cosby/Stevie Wonder)(MJ/KR) -unidentified source,
> July 1972
> Note: Some dates and places are unsure.
All of these tracks are available on VGP´s "Keep Your Motor Running" CD (and none of them on the phoney "Unreleased Decca Live Album" Disc).
All Down The Line is from Philadelphia 07-21-72 (2nd show), not from Houston.
Rip This Joint is from one of the 07-21 Philly shows and not from Ft. Worth.
[iorr.org]
Re: The Great Lost Live Album
Posted by:
soundboard
()
Date: September 25, 2023 01:22
Excellent presentation of info exilestones.
Thanks for putting this together.
Those handbills / mini posters are so fine.
Soundboard
Thanks for putting this together.
Those handbills / mini posters are so fine.
Soundboard
Re: The Great Lost Live Album
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: September 26, 2023 12:39
Quote
soundboard
Excellent presentation of info exilestones.
Thanks for putting this together.
Those handbills / mini posters are so fine.
Soundboard
You're welcome. I'm still researching....
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07 ()
Date: July 17, 2007 16:39
kovach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How's this compare to "Very Ancient Thank You
> Kindly"?
>
> Aren't these both from the partially finished
> unreleased live album?
>
> I thought I read somewhere the song selection was
> slightly different, some songs seem speeded up,
> and one was stereo and the other mono, but can't
> remember which was which...
Ok I sent a cdr of this to Urban Steel, which I downloaded from a torrent. Some of these tracks are available on "Very Ancient" but they run too fast. They run at the correct speed on here. "Very Ancient" also has several audience sourced tracks. This is the actual '72 live album that was never released complete with overdubs and mixed for radio. The '72 live album portion ends with "Uptight/Satisfaction". I added a couple of bonus tracks, mainly to help complete Urban Steel's collection of '72 soundboard material.
++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: silkcut1978
Date: July 18, 2007 15:03
yes, but if you compare you can see that Sweet Virginia, RTJ & Uptight/SAT are from other shows (maybe more?).
Nico's hint at Uptight/Satisfaction (unidentified source) is based on the fact that the version from the acetate isn't on any of the tapes/LPs/CDs we already have. In other words it's not from Philadelphia for instance.
++++++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: silkcut1978
Date: July 18, 2007 15:18
UrbanSteel Wrote:
> Nice discussion ,
>
> Nico write in the comments ; Note: Some dates and
> places are unsure.
Yes, because there is no audience source for both Houston shows and for Philadelphia, 21.07. 1st - so in some cases one can only guess from which show a song may come from :-)
But fact is that there are complete sources for Philadelphia 20.07. and Philadelphia 21.07. (2nd show) - so it's easy for instance to say that Satisfaction on the acetate isn't from Philadelphia as it wasn't even played at the afternoon show on 21.07. (at least I think so, hope I don't mess it up in my memory ;-) and as it's not the same version as on the other 2 Philly shows.
There's only one thing to understand: bootleggers are trying to make money, that's their business. Personally I think something like "unreleased Live-LP" sells better than "another soundboard compilation" ;-) That's the reason why we got plenty of LPs and CDs in the last 20 years which said "unreleased blabla". But it's simply not true. until now the broadcast of the acetate is unreleased on LP/CD BECAUSE of the bad quality/bad equipment it was recorded. It's full of hiss, I think mono only and all in all not a listening pleasure. Would it be the other way (exc.stereo) I bet we'd have a ton of correct "unreleased LIVE-LP"-releases :-)
+++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: kovach
Date: July 18, 2007 17:24
Some of the KYMR songs must've been meant for the live album though since they were overdubbed, right?
+++++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07
Date: July 18, 2007 19:48
silkcut1978 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And THANK YOU for the upload of "Keep Your Motor
> Running" - besides the fact that it's not the
> Live-LP it's a killer-release and highly
> recommended. I think it can't get any better and
> I'm still enjoying this release a lot !
Silkcut........why do "Tumbling Dice", "All Down The Line", and "Bye Bye Johnny" have vocal overdubs if they were not intended for the live album?
You may well be correct but I wouldn't take Nico's site as a bible for Stones information. There are mistakes there just like any other source. Nico even says some of the dates are unsure. Nico claims that "All Down The Line" on the broadcast was from Houston 1st show. That may be true, but this version of "All Down The Line" on KYMR from Philadelphia #3 is overdubbed. So should we assume this is the actual version that would have been on the live album?
Some of these songs were to be on the album, or at the very least they were working on them for inclusion on the album.
The information that I got (which could be inaccurate) was that these songs were from a radio broadcast of the unreleased live album. Could it be possible that the Stones were working on different versions of the same songs for possible inclusion on the live album? For example, maybe they had two versions of "All Down The Line" that they were working on?
+++++
silkcut1978 Wrote:
Tumbling, let me try to explain my point of view:
first of all the facts: the acetate of the unreleased LIVE-LP was broadcast by WMMS - so at least we have something like a "final" version. the running order might be wrong but who knows, I can't tell as I've never seen the acetate.
Tumbling Dice is the same version here (KYMR) and there (acetate). So why do we have overdubs on Bye Bye Johnny (which is missing on the acetate) and All Down The Line (different source)? I can't tell but what I can say is that they did the very same with Love You live - they've reworked for instance at least 3 versions of Fingerprint File and even songs like Ain't Too proud To Beg and Street Fighting Man which you can't find on the final release. This is confirmed and not only written on Nico's site without confirmation.
Yeah, and now I've read your posting again and realized that you figured out the same possibility ;-)
Finally let me quote your last sentence "But I'm sure that at least SOME of
> these songs were intended for the live album.' SURE, at least the first five songs from KYMR are from the same show as on the acetate :-)
So my personal conclusion: Keep Your Motor Running might be
a) a clever compilation of already available material coincidentally congruent with the "final" product - or -
b) maybe taken from another acetate/tape which might have been something like a first idea how it could have been in the end or even from a later stage - maybe the broadcast based on a very early produced record.
Anyway, whenever there's talkin' about the "unreleased Live LP" I prefer to refer to the broadcast as it was the only public airing - everything else is more likely - but not definitely - a bootlegger's invention.
+++++++
Tornandfrayed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you have this tape?
> Unitl I´ll hear a confirmed tape of this alleged
> broadcast, I´m still convinced that the KYMR CD is
> the unreleased live album. It all makes perfect
> sense to me (overdubs on most of the songs, track
> selection, etc...).
[iorr.org]
Re: The Great Lost Live Album
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: September 26, 2023 12:40
Quote
soundboard
Excellent presentation of info exilestones.
Thanks for putting this together.
Those handbills / mini posters are so fine.
Soundboard
You're welcome. I'm still researching....
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07
Date: July 17, 2007 16:39
kovach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How's this compare to "Very Ancient Thank You
> Kindly"?
>
> Aren't these both from the partially finished
> unreleased live album?
>
> I thought I read somewhere the song selection was
> slightly different, some songs seem speeded up,
> and one was stereo and the other mono, but can't
> remember which was which...
Ok I sent a cdr of this to Urban Steel, which I downloaded from a torrent. Some of these tracks are available on "Very Ancient" but they run too fast. They run at the correct speed on here. "Very Ancient" also has several audience sourced tracks. This is the actual '72 live album that was never released complete with overdubs and mixed for radio. The '72 live album portion ends with "Uptight/Satisfaction". I added a couple of bonus tracks, mainly to help complete Urban Steel's collection of '72 soundboard material.
++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: silkcut1978
Date: July 18, 2007 15:03
yes, but if you compare you can see that Sweet Virginia, RTJ & Uptight/SAT are from other shows (maybe more?).
Nico's hint at Uptight/Satisfaction (unidentified source) is based on the fact that the version from the acetate isn't on any of the tapes/LPs/CDs we already have. In other words it's not from Philadelphia for instance.
++++++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: silkcut1978
Date: July 18, 2007 15:18
UrbanSteel Wrote:
> Nice discussion ,
>
> Nico write in the comments ; Note: Some dates and
> places are unsure.
Yes, because there is no audience source for both Houston shows and for Philadelphia, 21.07. 1st - so in some cases one can only guess from which show a song may come from :-)
But fact is that there are complete sources for Philadelphia 20.07. and Philadelphia 21.07. (2nd show) - so it's easy for instance to say that Satisfaction on the acetate isn't from Philadelphia as it wasn't even played at the afternoon show on 21.07. (at least I think so, hope I don't mess it up in my memory ;-) and as it's not the same version as on the other 2 Philly shows.
There's only one thing to understand: bootleggers are trying to make money, that's their business. Personally I think something like "unreleased Live-LP" sells better than "another soundboard compilation" ;-) That's the reason why we got plenty of LPs and CDs in the last 20 years which said "unreleased blabla". But it's simply not true. until now the broadcast of the acetate is unreleased on LP/CD BECAUSE of the bad quality/bad equipment it was recorded. It's full of hiss, I think mono only and all in all not a listening pleasure. Would it be the other way (exc.stereo) I bet we'd have a ton of correct "unreleased LIVE-LP"-releases :-)
+++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: kovach
Date: July 18, 2007 17:24
Some of the KYMR songs must've been meant for the live album though since they were overdubbed, right?
+++++++
Re: POST : SB ; “Keep Your Motor Running” , The Unreleased 1972 Live Album via GigaSize FLAC-WinRAR Files
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07
Date: July 18, 2007 19:48
silkcut1978 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And THANK YOU for the upload of "Keep Your Motor
> Running" - besides the fact that it's not the
> Live-LP it's a killer-release and highly
> recommended. I think it can't get any better and
> I'm still enjoying this release a lot !
Silkcut........why do "Tumbling Dice", "All Down The Line", and "Bye Bye Johnny" have vocal overdubs if they were not intended for the live album?
You may well be correct but I wouldn't take Nico's site as a bible for Stones information. There are mistakes there just like any other source. Nico even says some of the dates are unsure. Nico claims that "All Down The Line" on the broadcast was from Houston 1st show. That may be true, but this version of "All Down The Line" on KYMR from Philadelphia #3 is overdubbed. So should we assume this is the actual version that would have been on the live album?
Some of these songs were to be on the album, or at the very least they were working on them for inclusion on the album.
The information that I got (which could be inaccurate) was that these songs were from a radio broadcast of the unreleased live album. Could it be possible that the Stones were working on different versions of the same songs for possible inclusion on the live album? For example, maybe they had two versions of "All Down The Line" that they were working on?
+++++
silkcut1978 Wrote:
Tumbling, let me try to explain my point of view:
first of all the facts: the acetate of the unreleased LIVE-LP was broadcast by WMMS - so at least we have something like a "final" version. the running order might be wrong but who knows, I can't tell as I've never seen the acetate.
Tumbling Dice is the same version here (KYMR) and there (acetate). So why do we have overdubs on Bye Bye Johnny (which is missing on the acetate) and All Down The Line (different source)? I can't tell but what I can say is that they did the very same with Love You live - they've reworked for instance at least 3 versions of Fingerprint File and even songs like Ain't Too proud To Beg and Street Fighting Man which you can't find on the final release. This is confirmed and not only written on Nico's site without confirmation.
Yeah, and now I've read your posting again and realized that you figured out the same possibility ;-)
Finally let me quote your last sentence "But I'm sure that at least SOME of
> these songs were intended for the live album.' SURE, at least the first five songs from KYMR are from the same show as on the acetate :-)
So my personal conclusion: Keep Your Motor Running might be
a) a clever compilation of already available material coincidentally congruent with the "final" product - or -
b) maybe taken from another acetate/tape which might have been something like a first idea how it could have been in the end or even from a later stage - maybe the broadcast based on a very early produced record.
Anyway, whenever there's talkin' about the "unreleased Live LP" I prefer to refer to the broadcast as it was the only public airing - everything else is more likely - but not definitely - a bootlegger's invention.
+++++++
Tornandfrayed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you have this tape?
> Unitl I´ll hear a confirmed tape of this alleged
> broadcast, I´m still convinced that the KYMR CD is
> the unreleased live album. It all makes perfect
> sense to me (overdubs on most of the songs, track
> selection, etc...).
[iorr.org]
Re: The Great Lost Live Album
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: September 30, 2023 16:00
Michael wrote:
I'm still comparing all these fantastic '72 tracks. Did you recognize, that Sweet Virginia from "Very Ancient, Thank You Kindly American Tour 1972 [Scorpio SCO 30]" is a totally different mix, compared to all other releases? It's the version with "thank you for your wine Philadelphia" from 19710721, 1st show. There's an acoustic guitar from the very first note in the intro onwards, that you can't hear on the other releases. I have never heard that before. A great find!
I'm still comparing all these fantastic '72 tracks. Did you recognize, that Sweet Virginia from "Very Ancient, Thank You Kindly American Tour 1972 [Scorpio SCO 30]" is a totally different mix, compared to all other releases? It's the version with "thank you for your wine Philadelphia" from 19710721, 1st show. There's an acoustic guitar from the very first note in the intro onwards, that you can't hear on the other releases. I have never heard that before. A great find!
Re: The Great Lost Live Album
Posted by:
wiredallnight
()
Date: September 30, 2023 16:39
Quote
exilestones
Michael wrote:
I'm still comparing all these fantastic '72 tracks. Did you recognize, that Sweet Virginia from "Very Ancient, Thank You Kindly American Tour 1972 [Scorpio SCO 30]" is a totally different mix, compared to all other releases? It's the version with "thank you for your wine Philadelphia" from 19710721, 1st show. There's an acoustic guitar from the very first note in the intro onwards, that you can't hear on the other releases. I have never heard that before. A great find!
Yes. These tracks that were apparently thought for release on the 1972 live album - e.g. on Very Ancient or Keep Your Motor Runnin' - are heavily overdubbed (as for all official live LPs). For example You Can't Always Get what You Want (that we only have in mono) is the same version from Houston 1st show as on Ladies And Gentlemen. But they edited out some vocals (no verses but shouts and improvisation by Mick). Also Happy is the same version as in the movie and different though.
Re: The Great Lost Live Album
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: October 1, 2023 21:27
Quote
wiredallnightQuote
exilestones
Michael wrote:
I'm still comparing all these fantastic '72 tracks. Did you recognize, that Sweet Virginia from "Very Ancient, Thank You Kindly American Tour 1972 [Scorpio SCO 30]" is a totally different mix, compared to all other releases? It's the version with "thank you for your wine Philadelphia" from 19710721, 1st show. There's an acoustic guitar from the very first note in the intro onwards, that you can't hear on the other releases. I have never heard that before. A great find!
Yes. These tracks that were apparently thought for release on the 1972 live album - e.g. on Very Ancient or Keep Your Motor Runnin' - are heavily overdubbed (as for all official live LPs). For example You Can't Always Get what You Want (that we only have in mono) is the same version from Houston 1st show as on Ladies And Gentlemen. But they edited out some vocals (no verses but shouts and improvisation by Mick). Also Happy is the same version as in the movie and different though.
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