What's the rule regarding officially released performances. I'm currently going through 1975-77 recordings to compile an alternate Love You Live and I'm stuck at IMP bootleg of Mocambo. Are "Mannish Boy", "Little Red Rooster", "Around & Around", and "Cracking Up" off limits because they were on "Love You Live"? Even though they're presented on this bootleg and shared here on IORR?

I,m not sure If I understand your question correct, but if you refer to the recordings from Mocambo, the answer is, that if they have been released at the Love You Live, it,s off. stuff. Are these recordings from Mocambo?? If so , its off. stuff!!
I,m sorry but I dont know much about the off. "Love You Live" album - I had it on vinyl, and then threw it out - its AWFULL.
But again - if these recording (at the off. Love You Live-album) are from the Mocambo-show, they are off. stuff.
They don,t become "legal-boot-stuff"" just because they have been presentet on bootleg - thats for sure!

cheers Bo



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-21 02:26 by hedegaard.

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hedegaard
I,m not sure If I understand your question correct, but if you refer to the recordings from Mocambo, the answer is, that if they have been released at the Love You Live, it,s off. stuff. Are these recordings from Mocambo?? If so , its off. stuff!!
I,m sorry but I dont know much about the off. "Love You Live" album - I had it on vinyl, and then threw it out - its AWFULL.
But again - if these recording (at the off. Love You Live-album) are from the Mocambo-show, they are off. stuff.
They don,t become "legal-boot-stuff"" just because they have been presentet on bootleg - thats for sure!

cheers Bo

Ah.. but what about songs that have been recorded by the Stones and released and the same songs recorded by a bootlegger and released on a boot ?....so, same songs different source.

Ohh yes Eddie! You,ve got the point. In this forum they have the "idea", that its all a question of off. release or not. In the matter of copyright thats nonsens!
The copyright rules protect the artist right to distibrute and use hes work, no matter if it is a musicnumber, lyrics, movie or whatsoever.
An examble: Brown Sugar is written by Jagger/Richards. That number, incl. the lyrics, is protected by copyright, so if you record that yourself (or your band)
and distibrute it via the internet, without permission from the copyrightholder, its a violation against the copyrightrules. The same thing if you make an unautohorized recording of a Stones show (all the songs they play are copyright-protected), its also a violation against the copyright IF you spread this show via the internet or burn it as a CD .
It dos,nt matter if you sell it or spread it for free.
You are allowed to make a copy for your own use ONLY. That goes for off. recordings too.
As you might know, you are allowed to record all TV-shows, news or mowies (showed on TV) but again; for your own use only - you are not allowed to make copys of any tv-broadcasts,( not even your friends or family) - they are all protected by copyright. Or as they say "all rights reserved".
So allways remember - its the work (the number written by Stones or another artist) thats protected by copyright. It dos,nt matter a bit, if its off. realeased stuff or not!
So why do we care at this forum, if its off. or not? The answer is (IMO) that most artist dos,nt care about bootrecordings, they dont "miss" anything (read: money).
The only way they can earn money, is by making an official release of all their shows, but it would P--- them of, if you upload the off. "Sticky Fingers" album.
Some artist are very angry on bootlegers, for ex. Metalica, Paul McCartney, and the Elvis -Impire. They,ll gladly drag every bootleger in the court. They are very, very greedy! The Stones are very relaxed about bootleging- so dont worry - just keep your hands from off. released stuff.
But yes, according to the terms of copyright, its not legal to spread copyrighted stuff (bootlegs) - but the Stones don,t care (as long as you dont SELL it for money)
Hope that clears just a bit of your question. Copyright is really heavy stuff!!!

cheers Bo



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-22 00:33 by hedegaard.

Thank you Hedegaard for the comprehensive answer. I understand what you're saying is that nearly all of the music that The Stones (and other artists) perform is copyrighted. But you're also saying that The Stones in particular don't care too much about their performances being bootlegged.

So getting back to the question of "officially released" material. If the "Little Red Rooster" performance from Mocambo is on the album "Love You Live," does that render all recordings of that song from that show off limits? And if so, how come this forum allows that song to be shared via the IMP and DAC bootlegs from Mocambo?

What I'm trying to figure out is whether or not I can include the song on my collection (Really) Love You Live without getting into to trouble with the moderators of IORR.

Any suggestions?

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Laughingsam
Thank you Hedegaard for the comprehensive answer. I understand what you're saying is that nearly all of the music that The Stones (and other artists) perform is copyrighted. But you're also saying that The Stones in particular don't care too much about their performances being bootlegged.

So getting back to the question of "officially released" material. If the "Little Red Rooster" performance from Mocambo is on the album "Love You Live," does that render all recordings of that song from that show off limits? And if so, how come this forum allows that song to be shared via the IMP and DAC bootlegs from Mocambo?

What I'm trying to figure out is whether or not I can include the song on my collection (Really) Love You Live without getting into to trouble with the moderators of IORR.

Any suggestions?

My own estimation would be that for example Mannish boy - El Mocombo sourced from Love you Live would be off limits but Mannish boy - El Mocombo sourced from a bootleggers recording would be O.K.(Regarding the rules of this board at least...that's my understanding anyway.)

Another example would be...Fingerprint file from Toronto '75 is on Love you Live but no-one expects the Fingerprint file from 'Luxury in Toronto' to be deleted because the version on there isn't the same recording as is on LYL. It's not the officially released recording.

I would say it's a simple rule, so long as you don't source your uploads from stuff that has been recorded,overdubbed, mastered and released through the Stones record label for retail sales then you should be O.K......obviously bv can straighten me out on this if I've misread the situation..........

If you think about it just about every live song officially released from Get yer ya yas out to the Biggest Bang releases is available on this site from various audience and pre overdub soundboard recordings of the shows that those live compilations and complete shows were taken from...the only show that was officially released that I yet to find an audience recording of is Austin 06..........(That I can think of offhand at least)

Paris Olympia 03 is available as an officially released DVD and an audience boot, no-one deletes the boot...and so on and so on......



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-22 03:38 by EddieByword.

OOps - thats really a hot potato -I dont wont to be the one that rokcs the boat!
Little Red Rooster is released at the off. Love You Live album, its the same performance, but it also appears on bootlegs but taken from another source.
The thing is, that just because the same performance is "taken" from another (non legal) source its still taken from a off. release. Month ago we had the same thing up with "Flaspoint". There, as you know, exist a alternate version of Flashpoint - the only difference is, that it is taken from audience sources (in bad quality). We all agreed that this was an off. realease and therefore could,nt be uploaded here.
Why was the IMP and DAC- releases allowed here - well MY guess is, that not that much people quite and fully understand the copyright-rules, and thats why "shit happens" . The moderators cant be everywhere.
Another thing is, that the quality of the off. release is much better than the alterne bootleg-source, so I dont think that people wouldnt buy the off. album
just because they got the (part of) boot. Im sure the Stones agree - they know their fans - they are completely nuts! (LOL) They collect all stuff they can get - even awfull off. releases (Black & Blue, Love You Live a.s.o)
Thats my best answer -hope IORR agree. Its a bit of a grey zone, I would say.
But anyway, its still a off. release!

cheers Bo

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EddieByword

Quote
Laughingsam
Thank you Hedegaard for the comprehensive answer. I understand what you're saying is that nearly all of the music that The Stones (and other artists) perform is copyrighted. But you're also saying that The Stones in particular don't care too much about their performances being bootlegged.

So getting back to the question of "officially released" material. If the "Little Red Rooster" performance from Mocambo is on the album "Love You Live," does that render all recordings of that song from that show off limits? And if so, how come this forum allows that song to be shared via the IMP and DAC bootlegs from Mocambo?

What I'm trying to figure out is whether or not I can include the song on my collection (Really) Love You Live without getting into to trouble with the moderators of IORR.

Any suggestions?

My own estimation would be that for example Mannish boy - El Mocombo sourced from Love you Live would be off limits but Mannish boy - El Mocombo sourced from a bootleggers recording would be O.K.(Regarding the rules of this board at least...that's my understanding anyway.)

Another example would be...Fingerprint file from Toronto '75 is on Love you Live but no-one expects the Fingerprint file from 'Luxury in Toronto' to be deleted because the version on there isn't the same recording as is on LYL. It's not the officially released recording.

I would say it's a simple rule, so long as you don't source your uploads from stuff that has been recorded,overdubbed, mastered and released through the Stones record label for retail sales then you should be O.K......obviously bv can straighten me out on this if I've misread the situation..........

If you think about it just about every live song officially released from Get yer ya yas out to the Biggest Bang releases is available on this site from various audience and pre overdub soundboard recordings of the shows that those live compilations and complete shows were taken from...the only show that was officially released that I yet to find an audience recording of is Austin 06..........(That I can think of offhand at least)

Paris Olympia 03 is available as an officially released DVD and an audience boot, no-one deletes the boot...and so on and so on......

I agree! I,ve told you a little bit about the copyright rules. The rest is up to BV.

cheers Bo

Thanks for your help!

If it's not taken from the official Stones releases, I'd say it's OK. I really don't think anyone cares. What will happen? Nothing. If it's the foum's moderator's policy not to put officially released stuff out there, well, follow the policy or go elsewhere. I can't see why it would matter if you wrote I that you made a collection of songs andsome were official. It's not like you post the material on IORR. The bottom line is that you are putting something together and you need cerian tracks, then you need them to get your creative project together. The bottom line for me personally is I don't like when people pirate official albums but what you are doing by not using official sources seems OK to me. The bottom line for most people who care about this stuff is wether or not you are making money. I saw someone who got around the whole issue but making what they wanted and wrote about it on IORR and didn't post a link to the material basically saying this would be a great collection and listing it. I then wrote to the person complimenting him on a great collection and asked if it ever be put together. He sent me a link to download it!! YES! I enjoy that collection so much (except for the MP3's) and there was no link on IORR which didn't break any fourm rules. You need to understand that IORR has Stones connections and allowing the help in distrubiting pirate material would be bad for IORR with the Stones (but I don't think the Stones care). There has been so much great Stones material to be had and many great fans making many great projects. THANKS! Please don't use low quality MP3s. The cymbols and other things in MP3 sound is low quality. MP3 shaves off the highs and lows so the files are smaller and more protable. It's not about sound quality....it's about portability for most people. It's music, we need the best sound. Personally I like good food but many, many people line-up for Micky D's (McDonalds). Good luck with your project. I appreciate your efforts...GO FOR IT! Someone will let you know if you crossed the line...don't orry about it.

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exilestones
If it's not taken from the official Stones releases, I'd say it's OK. I really don't think anyone cares. What will happen? Nothing. If it's the foum's moderator's policy not to put officially released stuff out there, well, follow the policy or go elsewhere. I can't see why it would matter if you wrote I that you made a collection of songs andsome were official. It's not like you post the material on IORR. The bottom line is that you are putting something together and you need cerian tracks, then you need them to get your creative project together. The bottom line for me personally is I don't like when people pirate official albums but what you are doing by not using official sources seems OK to me. The bottom line for most people who care about this stuff is wether or not you are making money. I saw someone who got around the whole issue but making what they wanted and wrote about it on IORR and didn't post a link to the material basically saying this would be a great collection and listing it. I then wrote to the person complimenting him on a great collection and asked if it ever be put together. He sent me a link to download it!! YES! I enjoy that collection so much (except for the MP3's) and there was no link on IORR which didn't break any fourm rules. You need to understand that IORR has Stones connections and allowing the help in distrubiting pirate material would be bad for IORR with the Stones (but I don't think the Stones care). There has been so much great Stones material to be had and many great fans making many great projects. THANKS! Please don't use low quality MP3s. The cymbols and other things in MP3 sound is low quality. MP3 shaves off the highs and lows so the files are smaller and more protable. It's not about sound quality....it's about portability for most people. It's music, we need the best sound. Personally I like good food but many, many people line-up for Micky D's (McDonalds). Good luck with your project. I appreciate your efforts...GO FOR IT! Someone will let you know if you crossed the line...don't orry about it.

Finally someone that understand.

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JumpinJeppeFlash

Quote
exilestones
If it's not taken from the official Stones releases, I'd say it's OK. I really don't think anyone cares. What will happen? Nothing. If it's the foum's moderator's policy not to put officially released stuff out there, well, follow the policy or go elsewhere. I can't see why it would matter if you wrote I that you made a collection of songs andsome were official. It's not like you post the material on IORR. The bottom line is that you are putting something together and you need cerian tracks, then you need them to get your creative project together. The bottom line for me personally is I don't like when people pirate official albums but what you are doing by not using official sources seems OK to me. The bottom line for most people who care about this stuff is wether or not you are making money. I saw someone who got around the whole issue but making what they wanted and wrote about it on IORR and didn't post a link to the material basically saying this would be a great collection and listing it. I then wrote to the person complimenting him on a great collection and asked if it ever be put together. He sent me a link to download it!! YES! I enjoy that collection so much (except for the MP3's) and there was no link on IORR which didn't break any fourm rules. You need to understand that IORR has Stones connections and allowing the help in distrubiting pirate material would be bad for IORR with the Stones (but I don't think the Stones care). There has been so much great Stones material to be had and many great fans making many great projects. THANKS! Please don't use low quality MP3s. The cymbols and other things in MP3 sound is low quality. MP3 shaves off the highs and lows so the files are smaller and more protable. It's not about sound quality....it's about portability for most people. It's music, we need the best sound. Personally I like good food but many, many people line-up for Micky D's (McDonalds). Good luck with your project. I appreciate your efforts...GO FOR IT! Someone will let you know if you crossed the line...don't orry about it.

Finally someone that understand.

I do also understand the terms of using this site - I HAVE read the rules . no off. stuff.
I was only answering, and trying to explain, the copyright-rules.
I know Jesper you think I,m a complet idiot,but copyright-rules is one thing I know lots about, and have been working with for allmost 25 years. Sorry if that disturbed you. If you have read my answer I also, between the lines, explain the
"agreement" with the Stones.

Bo

While many have gone to great lengths to explain, I only wish to add the following--
each site defines 'official' differently.
Some follow the letter of the law -- for example: anything, regardless of source, that stems from the same track as an officially released song, will be banned at dime.
Other sites are more liberal in defining 'official'.

In other words, poster beware

"Are "Mannish Boy", "Little Red Rooster", "Around & Around", and "Cracking Up" off limits because they were on "Love You Live"?"

I'd say go ahead with these cos the versions on LYL have been heavily overdubbed...
Soin my book the tracks on the IMP cd are different from the ones officially released.