I had read some not great reviews of it, but decided to read it anyway since all I knew about Gram was the stuff that relates to the Stones/Nellcote/Exile. It's a hell of a lot better than the critics said - it seems to be well-researched and it isn't fawning (which is what I expected based on the reviews).

Anyone else reading it?

NO I havent heard about it but I be its great. Alot of people write Gram off but he was doing the "outlaw" country thing when Willie and Waylon were using Brylcreem!

i read a fairly new one--though it pushed for Gram's sainthood, I have always found him kind of overrated -- a trust fund kid who could afford to live the elegantly wasted life--some good music no doubt--but a long of annoying hanger-on stuff too--i think it was jagger who flicked him off the stone's host body

I thought it was Keith who finally sent Gram on his way for both their sakes- Mick was too busy trying to shag Grams wife,Gretchen who rejected Mick repeatedly.
Of course I wasnt there so its just speculating on what I read in Greenfield's(?) second book.

Greenfield is not so accurate re Gram, Gretchen and all else.
Gram was talented but hardly a genius, the kind of guy you'd have second thoughts about inviting to a party.

I played at a couple of the GramFests they used to have
out In Joshua Tree. THey were fun, but they soon turned kinda pathetic.
Most though Parsons put the sun and moon in the sky.
Although I like his music, I don't think he deserves the
"father of country rock" crown. It certainly must be shared
with Chris Hillman, Mike Nesmith, the Dillards, Gene Clark,
and a few others. THey were doing "country rock" or whatever
you want to call it, long before Parsons was.
Don't get me wrong, I think Safe At Home, Guilded Palace of Sin,
and Sweetheart of the Rodeo are terrific records, but the sainthood
tag that people have on him is absurd.
Remember, Chris Hillman is just as important part of the Burrito's sound
as Parsons is.

the one i read is by david meyer

Gram's real dad had one heck of a nick-name......



Uncle Tom....Ingram Cecil "Coon Dog" Conner......Gram.......Grandfather Ingram Conner - 1957



ROCKMAN

Quote
hbwriter
the one i read is by david meyer

Yeah, that's the one. The reviewers said too that the author is fawning and clearly thinks Parsons was a young god...but I haven't seen it yet (although I'm only on page 129).

It's called Twenty Thousand Roads by David N. Meyer if you want to check it.

Quote
Rockman
Gram's real dad had one heck of a nick-name......



Uncle Tom....Ingram Cecil "Coon Dog" Conner......Gram.......Grandfather Ingram Conner - 1957

According to Meyer, he got that nickname while a pilot in WWII because he could sniff out enemy planes as easily as a coon dog could sniff out raccoons.

Yeah DaisyGrace....
It varies from book ta book...Good hunter...Looks...War dog-fights...



ROCKMAN

I dont think sainthood is deserved either but Gram undoubtedly had a lot of influence on Keith as far as turning him on to a lot of good country. It just seems like with such a short body of work it seems as fashionable to "pile on" Gram for his shortcomings as it is to overexagerate his accomplishments.

it's a good read....but "God's Own Singer", is a far superior book, imo.

Quote
Adrian-L
it's a good read....but "God's Own Singer", is a far superior book, imo.

Thanks for the rec. Will check it out.

Quote
tomk
I played at a couple of the GramFests they used to have
out In Joshua Tree. THey were fun, but they soon turned kinda pathetic.
Most though Parsons put the sun and moon in the sky.
Although I like his music, I don't think he deserves the
"father of country rock" crown. It certainly must be shared
with Chris Hillman, Mike Nesmith, the Dillards, Gene Clark,
and a few others. THey were doing "country rock" or whatever
you want to call it, long before Parsons was.
Don't get me wrong, I think Safe At Home, Guilded Palace of Sin,
and Sweetheart of the Rodeo are terrific records, but the sainthood
tag that people have on him is absurd.
Remember, Chris Hillman is just as important part of the Burrito's sound
as Parsons is.

I agree with this post 100%.

The most annoying thing about the Legend of Gram is the notion that he created country rock, and he did it all by himself.

Nesmith and others should be pissed...but if I were Hillman I'd be really upset.

A couple of years ago I saw Hillman and Herb Petersen play at the Orange County Fair. He was on a bill with Poco and Ritchie Furay (who joined Poco for an encore). Sounds like a Legends of Southern California country rock summit!

The show was included with price of admission to the fair. No extra charge. You could watch it, or check out the pig races instead. The area in which they played wasn't even full, actually it was pretty sparse. And that was for a home-town crowd. Amazing.

Quote
stonesrule
Greenfield is not so accurate re Gram, Gretchen and all else.
Gram was talented but hardly a genius, the kind of guy you'd have second thoughts about inviting to a party.

Greenfield is no so accurate full stop. Don't take anything he writes as the full truth. He embellished the second part of his 72 tourbook w/secondhand accounts and waited nearly fifteen years to tell us about it.

"The wonder of Jimi Hendrix was that he could stand up at all he was so pumped full of drugs." Patsy, Patsy Stone

To those of us who saw Gram more than once in concert, there is no need for anyone to describe his magic to us in a book. Absolutely had to be seen to be believed.

A good friend just sent me a dvd of some b/w footage of Gram with Emmylou Harris and band. Theres only about 4 songs and the quality is far from perfect but the sorrow and pain that pours outta this guy is haunting. Even when its an upbeat song theres seems to be a sense of impending doom. Its the same as George Jones in the early 60s, only he by some miracle survived. Living on borrowed time indeed! He didnt start "country rock" but he was sure there when it got going. As a matter of fact I believe he was stone cold country with long hair and sure as hell was sincere with his presentation of the music.

The Palomino club in North Hollywood was a huge influence on the musicians mentioned in previous posts. And numerous wouldbe rock musicians went or tried to go country after hanging out there watching the greats of country music.

It didn't hurt that Nudie's famous country tailoring shop was nearby. And the flash of those rhinestones and the cut of his suits was quite inspiring to Gram and many others. "Image" ya know.

Assorted Rolling Stones had been to both places before Gram knew them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-31 23:05 by stonesrule.

look at the clothes/makeup parsons ended up wearing and you'll know who really influenced who--sorry, i get tired of the parsons adulation--i find it totally unwarranted--and when you read the meyers book--parsons comes off as a real operator--and the key is--he had his daddy's money to pull it all off

sure Keith(and other stones) had heard country before Gram but listen to Keiths Toronto Sessions and Honeymoon Tapes-you could call alot of it "The Gram Parsons Songbook". Not writing them but performing them on a regular basis. Now THAT cant be completely coincidental!
By the way,the last few days on different threads I've read(paraphrasing) Keith is a thief, Brian is a novice guitarist at best, Mick Taylor wasnt any good, and Ron has no talent! I guess its a wonder the Stones got anything done!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-31 23:54 by scottkeef.

Quote
tomk
I don't think he deserves the
"father of country rock" crown. It certainly must be shared
with Chris Hillman, Mike Nesmith, the Dillards, Gene Clark,
and a few others. THey were doing "country rock" or whatever
you want to call it, long before Parsons was.

No doubt these people all deserve their place, but the reason that people talk about Parsons as the father of country rock is probably because of a combination of two things. Firstly, his friendship with Keith would eventually lead to country becoming more acceptable to a much wider rock audience. The country influences on Exile are obvious and who knows whether they would have been there if not for Gram? However, this influence is partly what has lead to a big resurgance in country / americana sounds recently and I'm sure it must have had a similar effect back in the day (similar to the early Stones work affecting Chuck Berry and Muddy Waters record sales). This effect would be swamped in some way due to the mainstream country market in the states but in the UK it may be clearer.

Secondly, without Gram then the story of country rock would be very different. If he hadn't joined the Byrds then Sweetheart of the Rodeo would not have existed - even though Chris Hillman was already in the Byrds at the time. Hence, the Flying Burito Bros and subsequent offshoots, such as the Eagles, would not have existed. Like it or not, this is how country rock became known to the masses - in a sort of watered down version. But Gram was certainly a figure head.

I'm not saying that Gram was more talented than these others... Listening to The Last of the Red Hot Burritos certainly shows how great the FBB's were without Gram. But don't get the two different things mixed up. Gram didn't invent country rock but I still say that he is the father of it.

Wasnt it Chris Hillman who after first seeing Gram brought him into the Byrds telling the others we better grab this kid cause he's that good? I think Gram may have been about 19 at the time.

but the byrds were so over at that point--and i always read that parsons worked his way in there--and was a royal pain in the ass once he joined

Fallen Angel(Rhino Home Video)-Chris Hillman in filmed interview says he ran into Gram at a bank in Beverly Hills,recognized him and said "I know you I've heard about you" then invited him down to jam with the Byrds. At the end of the session Gram started playing country songs and Hillman says heres a guy who gets where I'm coming from. He insisted to the others to hire him. He then states Gram's love for country music was the reason they went to Nashville to record "Sweethearts of The Rodeo". He also says Gram was responsible for the revitalization of the Byrds by kicking em in the ass. Check it out.

There's a wonderful book that talks about all this nonsense
called Are You Ready For the Country?
Also, Chris Hillman said in an interview that the musician
that seemed to know most about country music and how it should be played,
attitude and its ins and outs was Stephen Stills,
Hillman being a member of Mannasas. There's an interesting record.

Stanley Booth should write the GP biography.

He said he had one in the works, just a few years ago.

I'd sure like to read it, maybe he has a tough time getting a publisher.