Now is the time to really appreciate the man and his music. He is the originator of pure rhythm and blues rock and roll and he is still reeling and rocking. If you have not yet seen him do it while you still can. Check your local listings. Trust me you will not be disappointed!!!

I know you hear a lot of stories about Chuck these days, some good, others not so good.

This is a Good Chuck Story.

Back in the 1970's I regularly attended tapings of the Midnight Special TV Show (with Wolfman Jack). Usually the performers would come on do their songs, sometimes with 2 takes and that would be it. Occasionally a performer would do an extra song in case the director wanted an option.

One show, hosted by the Bee Gees had Chuck as one of the musical guests. This was the time that Ding-a-ling and Realin' & a Rockin' were hits. After the taping was over, which included the G-d awful duet of Realin&Rockin w/ the BeeGees (guess it wouldn't be a duet), Chuck came back and played a 30 to 40 minute set just for the studio Audience (without the Bee Gees). The audience really dug it. Wolfman dug it. Everyone left with that great feeling you have when you just leave a concert that exceeded your expectations.

Well, I guess you do give it to Chuck. The man wrote his own songs. But you can't knock EAP either. I love Jerry Lee, Fats, Little Richard, Buddy, all those cats. And they all covered Chuck Berry. To each their own I guess, but they're all very important. I LOVE them ALL.

Willie Nelson put it best regarding this:

"You can't choose one. You can't compare gold with gold."

Not sure why Elvis' validity is tarnished only because he didn't write his own songs. It's not about who wrote them it's about what you do with the songs. Chuck definitely is the more logical choice but there were other features that Elvis infused into rock and roll that Chuck didn't do...fusing different styles together and also the SEX in rock and roll. What Elvis did accidentally, was set off a youth revolution that is the seed of the psychology of rock and roll: screaming, sexuality and raw energy.

What Elvis did to the ideas of rock and roll; Chuck did to the music and groundwork of rock and roll.

I also think Chuck is the KING. Elvis was important, no doubt about it. In my opinion he helped bridge the whites and blacks. However he didn't write music and also faked guitar playing (although entertaining). And lets not forget that he informed on John Lennon to Nixon. Don't know what he was trying to prove by that. Aside from his first couple of years I don't like him much.

Just to avoid any further confusion on this matter

Elvis is the king of rock'n roll, thank you, thank you very much and
Chuck Berry is the father of rock'n roll and he's also the king of rock'n'roll . . . I know it sounds like a .J.R.R. Tolkien novel, but you can have more than one king, it would appear and people are fine with that. Two kings to rule them all.
furthermore,
Tina Turner is the queen of rock'n roll
James Brown is the godfather of soul and the king of funk
Rick James is the king of funk, too, but let's not argue
Aretha Franklin is the queen of soul
Bob Marley is the king of reggae
B.B. King is the king of the blues, like it or not (there are a lot of bluesmen to choose from is all I'm saying)
Jimmie Rodgers is the father of country music
Roy Acuff is the king of country music
Louis Armstrong is the father of jazz
but Jack Teagarden is the father of jazz trombone and
Coleman Hawkins is the father of jazz saxophone
Ella Fitzgerald is the queen of jazz and first lady of song
Peggy Lee is just the queen, without portfolio
Buddy Bolden is the king of jazz, but
Basie was the Count, Ellington was the Duke, and
Benny Goodman was the king of swing.
Oscar Peterson was the Maharajah
Nina Simone was the high priestess of soul
John Coltrane was the Master Blaster and
Iggy Pop and Neil Young are the godfathers of punk and grunge, respectively
The Ramones are the godfathers of punk.
Donna Summer is the queen of disco, and so is Andy Gibb
Bruce is the Boss,
Miles Davis is the Prince of Darkness, and finally,
Frank Sinatra is the Chairman of the Board

... and the Rolling Stones are the greatest rock & roll band in the history of everything.

Quote
with sssoul
... and the Rolling Stones are the greatest rock & roll band in the history of everything.

Amen

No, Chuck is not the King - Elvis is.

I think Chuck is great and he influenced more guitarists in the 1950's than anyone else. His story-telling style of writing must've also been a huge influence. But in terms of changing a whole culture and - as Justin described perfectly - the 'sex' aspect, then Elvis is where it is at.

He was the first true pop-star

Tine Turner the Queen of Rock n' Roll? Maybe I need to bone up on her material but I never thought of her music as rock n' roll.

Quote
frankotero
I also think Chuck is the KING. Elvis was important, no doubt about it. In my opinion he helped bridge the whites and blacks. However he didn't write music and also faked guitar playing (although entertaining)......

Besides his concerts, Elvis did play rhythm guitar on several of his records, mostly his early recordings (that's Elvis playing rhytm guitar on That's all right mama for example) and some later recordings (Baby, what you want me to do from the Comeback special and I didn't make it on playing guitar from June 4, 1970).

So he certainly didn't fake playing it, but Chuck's guitar playing is King!




Elvis Presley - Baby, What You Want Me To Do

It is amazing that why the world's leading democracy gives birth to such a huge amount talk of 'kings' of this and that.

As far as I'm concerned the guys - and gals - in French Revolution had the right policy how to deal with the kings.

- Doxa

Robert Johnson ....KING of the Delta Blues singers....
King Solomon Hill ...........The Gone Dead Train 1932....






ROCKMAN

If T.Turner is the queen of r&r,Janis Joplin is the Goddes.

Who was it that said if Chuck had been white,he'd been bigger than Elvis? Chuck seems to be a guy(at least for me) you can love and hate at the same time. For every good story you hear,you'll hear ten bad it seems. How Johnny Johnson got screwed or whatever. But when Jerry Lee gives him the "King Of R n R " crown in "Hail Hail" you gotta pay attention! The Killer doesnt pass out praise lightly(except to himself but thats just Jerry Lee). So I've come to the conclusion that even if Chuck plays a clunker now and again we should be thankful hes around to enjoy at all. I've sure people on this site dont go to bed at night worrying about my opinion but there it is!

Rock N Roll is a tree.

The roots are the Delta blues guys, the bit just out the ground is a mix of blues and country. The trunk is 50% Chuck Berry, 50% Bo Diddley, the bark Elvis Presley.

Every thing else is branches and leaves.

Quote
The GR
Rock N Roll is a tree.

The roots are the Delta blues guys, the bit just out the ground is a mix of blues and country. The trunk is 50% Chuck Berry, 50% Bo Diddley, the bark Elvis Presley.

Every thing else is branches and leaves.

Rock'n roll is a tree? Really? That's interesting and explains a lot:
did you know that a tree gets over 70% of its nutrients from through its leaves, and the other 30% from its dealer?

Really, this discussion is pretty redicoulus.. king? Music is art and there's no good or bad in art. There's just art, and one person likes it, the other hates it. And you could go on about their importance to music history.. but the fact remains that both were influential.. and tons others too.

Simon
myspace.com/koningsimon

Chuck Berry is scheduled to be on Jay Leno's Tonight Show this Friday !

B.B. King is scheduled for tonight !

To be honest...Elvis had five good years, the turned into a C movie star, then into a fat bugger. Never toured outside the US, so how can he be king of anything.

Chuck Berry wrote the book named Rock and Roll with 20 tracks that are unsurpassed to date. Yet, he also released 200 smaltzy pop songs, hasn't had a decent band since '64 and hasn't played in tune since '70. So, a "king"....

I just don't like this "king stuff I guess...

Mathijs

Interesting thread. My take on it is this: Berry is clearly the better musician and clearly the better songwriter. But there is a reason that millions pass through Graceland every year and that some people treat January 8 and August 16 like Christmas and Easter. In my opinion, the reason that EP is revered as the king is that he exuded a charisma that no entertainer matched before or since. He was just born with that certain something that made him what he was. A few (Sinatra, Jagger, Springsteen) have come close, but Elvis was the dude that every girl wanted and and every guy wanted to be. IMO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-27 15:47 by dj.

Chuck is the man, I don't think there has ever been a Stones album (except Satanic Majesties maybe) without at least one song with his signature stamped on it somewhere.

...depends what we mean by 'king'.

Quote
Mathijs
To be honest...Elvis had five good years, the turned into a C movie star, then into a fat bugger. Never toured outside the US, so how can he be king of anything.

Chuck Berry wrote the book named Rock and Roll with 20 tracks that are unsurpassed to date. Yet, he also released 200 smaltzy pop songs, hasn't had a decent band since '64 and hasn't played in tune since '70. So, a "king"....

I just don't like this "king stuff I guess...

Mathijs

I dunno to me, because Elvis never toured outside the US and STILL maintained a healthy GLOBAL fan base...is even more impressive.

To oversimplify that he became a C movie star and fat is pretty irrelevant compared to essence of Elvis' power that Chuck didn't bring to the table. Elvis created the idea and image of rock and roll in every step he took. Chuck wrote the book on rock and roll, musically. The actual nuts and bolts of the sound...the science of it all. Elvis laid down the law when it came to the psychology of rock and roll: sex, personality and energy. Those are the basics of any memorable rock star today.

Still, it's impressive that Elvis had his "5 good years" and still grew as an artist nearly 20 years later with "Suspicous Minds, "In The Ghetto" and "Burning Love" respectively. For any artist (even our beloved Stones) to still continue relevancy in the business 20 years after their best hits is quite an accomplishment.

People can hate the "King" title but fine...replace it with whatever you feel fits. But still, King fits Elvis...he's the poster boy for rock and roll...Chuck is the Father of Rock and Roll. He laid down the groundwork for how a guitar is the central focal point of rock and roll.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-27 22:49 by Justin.

Quote
Justin
I dunno to me, because Elvis never toured the US and STILL maintained a healthy GLOBAL fan base...is even more impressive.

.

Agreed. And of course, the only reason he didn't tour outside the States was because Tom Parker was an illegal. It wasn't as if Elvis didn't WANT to tour elswhere.

Elvis's released output from 1954-1960 shows he was the King. Doesn't matter what came after.

>> some people treat January 7 and August 16 like Christmas and Easter <<

make that january 8 ... unless you mean Christmas Eve

Historically speaking, Chuck Berry's influence is huge. But looking at the songs one by one, I'm not as sure about his merits: He clearly invented a certain template, THE template if you like. But then he kept repeating it over and over. In that respect Chuck Berry's as much a cliché as Elvis ever was. And concerning his "200 smaltzy pop songs", I'd rather go with Elvis' output or somebody else's.

By the way: One of Berry's (and Rock'n'Roll's) signature licks was borrowed from T-Bone Walker. So there were other "inventors" as well. It's more of a round table, really, than a certain kingdom.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-27 13:53 by Greenblues.

Quote
with sssoul
>> some people treat January 7 and August 16 like Christmas and Easter <<

make that january 8 ... unless you mean Christmas Eve

Good catch. Edited.

George Thourogood (sp?) was asked why he didn't write more songs. He replied that Chuck Berry had already written all the good ones.

Oh yeah, I love Elvis too. Going to Graceland is a surreal experience.

Quote
with sssoul
>> some people treat January 7 and August 16 like Christmas and Easter <<

make that january 8 ... unless you mean Christmas Eve

Or unless he means January 6th, if one's a really big fan of the Epiphany, traditionally the first Christmas gift-giving day.

That's the day we all have peanut butter, banana, and bacon sandwiches for breakfast, open up our presents, and say thank you, thank you very much.