This old chestnut is getting more media scutiny. What are the Stones current views, do they have any?

Class B or retain as Class C or legalise ? (the latter option will never happen, of course)

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jlowe
This old chestnut is getting more media scutiny. What are the Stones current views, do they have any?

Class B or retain as Class C or legalise ? (the latter option will never happen, of course)

"THE" law of course doesn't exist... Who's law do you mean?

In the Netherlands we do not have class C or B crimes, and cannabis is still legal, to a certain limit. But it is a very complicated and contradictive construction between using, owning, dealing and production. Besides, there is use for 'recreational' purposes and there is use on medical indication.

One thing is thereby for certain: you do not mean Dutch law when you say THE law... ;-)

You check out the numb heads that come outta our local Comprehensive School and the affect its having on their brains, you might think twice.....

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ablett
You check out the numb heads that come outta our local Comprehensive School and the affect its having on their brains, you might think twice.....

...and that goes for alcohol too. Still... (sometimes)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-05-07 16:11 by Harm.

Well, half the time their smoking it outside the school gates. But honestly, I believe its causing untold damage to this kids smoking it like its about to go outta fashion!

Keith did legalize it for himself.
He talks about his daily heavy smoking.
Not that anybody was surprised...

I hope he's not smoking anymore... And wish him 20 years of playing more... ;-)

I notice people these days seem to eat more at concerts rather than smoke dope. What's up with that?

I think it affects different people in different ways. It doesn't mellow everyone out - some people get energized, believe it or not. Alcohol is the true devil.

My brothers addicted. Its a vile drug. Those dealing should be clamped down on more. Definitely should be upgraded to class A imo. The popular 'skunk' is very different to the weed variety that was popular amoungst circles in the 1960's.

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sluissie

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jlowe
This old chestnut is getting more media scutiny. What are the Stones current views, do they have any?

Class B or retain as Class C or legalise ? (the latter option will never happen, of course)

"THE" law of course doesn't exist... Who's law do you mean?

In the Netherlands we do not have class C or B crimes, and cannabis is still legal, to a certain limit. But it is a very complicated and contradictive construction between using, owning, dealing and production. Besides, there is use for 'recreational' purposes and there is use on medical indication.

One thing is thereby for certain: you do not mean Dutch law when you say THE law... ;-)

It is THE LAW according to the British Government. In other words it is legislation, as passed by our Parliament. With some matters you can have primary and secondary legislation. I'm not sure where "drug classification" falls in this regard. It is really irrelevant anyway, the fact is that if the LAW is changed so that -in theory - you could be banged up for cannabis possession for 5 years, then that is the LAW of the land.

In the UK there seems to be a difference of opinion between the law makers (ie the politicians) some of whom (or at leat the PM)favour a reclassification to Class B and the health professionals whose view is that Class C is more appropriate.

The people who have to deal with the "law breakers", that is the Police seem to favour a return to Class B.

As you would expect none of these views are universal.

I work for a mental health charity and I can confirm that if cannabis did not exist there would be a lot less people suffering from mental health conditions, ranging from the moderate anxxiety sate to the severely psychotic. Most of them would find other substances anyway. Of course prohibition doesn't work either.

A useful study would be to compare different countries laws to "soft" drugs and the levels of hard drug use in different countries. The latter is to me the real issue.
"The needle and the damage done" says it all.

i fought the Law and the Law one. get a good attorney it's worth the money to get you undone !

I like a good sensimilla every once in a while; but I find
many citizens in Western Europe & the states tend to overconsume
pot a little, it resemblances the situation over here some 30 years ago.

I feel ambigous here; but free alcohol is more doubtful than free pot imho.

Can you imagine the cloud of smoke around Keef and Willie backstage at Willie's TV specials!!!

Where's that joint?

its illegal??? kidding??

Marijuana needs to be decriminalized or legalized in the USA.

no question....but what would the DEA do??

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jlowe
In the UK there seems to be a difference of opinion between the law makers (ie the politicians) some of whom (or at leat the PM)favour a reclassification to Class B and the health professionals whose view is that Class C is more appropriate.

The people who have to deal with the "law breakers", that is the Police seem to favour a return to Class B.

I'm not sure this is true. Most police I have dealt with (I'm a lawyer) were relieved not to have to "waste time" prosecuting for simple possession and to concentrate on serious commercial supply and harder drugs. The scientific evidence, although not all one way, still points to the relatively benign effects of cannabis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-05-07 22:52 by Lady Jayne.

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Big Al
My brothers addicted. Its a vile drug. Those dealing should be clamped down on more. Definitely should be upgraded to class A imo. The popular 'skunk' is very different to the weed variety that was popular amoungst circles in the 1960's.

Addicted? To pot? That's virtually impossible. If you smoke too much pot you have a serious problem elsewhere -pot is never the cause.

I've smoked for years, but the last five or so years I've found Dutch pot to be far too strong. I mean, a couple of drags and you're wasted for three hours. That's not my cup of tea.

Mathijs

The Labour Party in the UK made a big deal about policy being driven by 'evidence' and yet has just decided to completely ignore the advice of the experts it appointed and ignore the evidence that relatively speaking cannabis is not very harmful and should remain a class b drug. In another u-turn driven by fear of alienating middle England voters they drift ever further to the right and lose even more credibility. The point is not that the health experts believe it is harmless but that the severity of the possible damage is akin to a class c drug not a class b drug.

After all I smoke strong skunk every night & manage to hold down a full time job, look after two young children, do regular evening classes etc without turning into a brainless jibbering wreck. A little memory loss here, a little paranoia there perhaps but a price worth paying I reckon!

J. Lowe:
"the Police seem to favour a return to Class B." - Actually they backed the decision to relegate it to a class c drug & as far as I understand they by and large still support this as it sensible frees up their time to investigate serious crimes/ hassle young black males (delete where appropriate)

"What are the Stones current views?" - Jagger signed a petition to have dope decriminalised live on air in a kids tv show called 'Pass The Mic' a few years ago though he may have changed his mind since. I think we know where Keith stands...

Addicted to pot: the habit (being high) can be addictive as a means to leave reality. I can imagine that the need to deny reality is the other serious problem Matthijs points at?

Furthermore, (acute) psychosis, or an increased chance of psychosis, is a proven risk of smoking (too much too strong) pot too often. But this makes cannabis, in a reasonable measure of a reasonable strength, nothing more dangerous than any other forbidden fruit, and far less addictive than many others.

So enjoy whatever you take in joyful quantity, and don't take, OR moralise too much ;-)

Jelle

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sluissie
Addicted to pot: the habit (being high) can be addictive as a means to leave reality. I can imagine that the need to deny reality is the other serious problem Matthijs points at?

That's exactly what I mean. I remember when I grew up in the 80's that people got addicted to everything: gambling, hashish, betting, sports, fruit, vegetables, riding busses, sitting on the couch doing nothing.

In the end, it was just either adolescence or boredom that struck them heavy. People who can't deal with hash can't deal with life; Don't blame the pot.


Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Big Al
My brothers addicted. Its a vile drug. Those dealing should be clamped down on more. Definitely should be upgraded to class A imo. The popular 'skunk' is very different to the weed variety that was popular amoungst circles in the 1960's.

Addicted? To pot? That's virtually impossible. If you smoke too much pot you have a serious problem elsewhere -pot is never the cause.

I've smoked for years, but the last five or so years I've found Dutch pot to be far too strong. I mean, a couple of drags and you're wasted for three hours. That's not my cup of tea.

Mathijs

My own beleif is that its addictive and harmful. What is and what isn't addictive can be a matter of opinion.

It's not as physically addictive or as dangerous as tobacco or alcohol both of which are legal. Anything can be psychologically addictive: I'm hooked on wine gums.

Way way far too many a friends of mine
have lost their sanity, minds, lives etc fore
I could embrace this drug. Hashisch psycosis must not
be totally unknown in Netherlands either... ?
But alcohol psycosises is an underrated phenomenon as well.
I have been dealin' with them both among friends & as a mental nurse,
or whatever the title is in English.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-05-08 00:25 by Baboon Bro.

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Baboon Bro
Way way far too many a friends of mine
have lost their sanity, minds, lives etc fore
I could embrace this drug. Hashisch psycosis must not
be totally unknown in Netherlands either... ?

Frankly? It's totally unknown in Holland. If you smoke too much Hash/Marijuana all that happens is that you fall over and wake up a couple hours later. No "psycosis" or whatever.

What DOES happen a lot lately in Amsterdam is Americans and Brit's staying for a long week-end -they first drink 20 pints of lager, than have two grams of weed. They fall a sleep, but that's a waist of the money spend on the flight and the hotel -so in order to stay awake, they score some cut up coke. They wake up due to the speed that's blendede in, and think: let's do some magic mushrooms! Ans in the end, these people think they can jump of 10 story buildings.

And who get's the blame? The Dutch goverment. "Oh they're so liberal". Who'se really to blame? The binge drinking Brits and the American tourists whom find it all so "Rembrendtesque". These are the poeple who needs their asses saved.

Isn't an very American slogan "guns don't kill people"? Indeed. Drugs don't kill people.

Mathijs

This is a complex issue, not as cut and dry as say narcotic addictions and alcohol. There have been some very recent and interesting long term research that has come out on pot. First, the most controversial and recent study was conducted by Harvard and a proponent of the US drug war. But surprisingly his study, which was conducted over 20 years, shows there is no link between smoking pot and cancer. This study infuriated the Bush administration. Secondly, as was stated above, pot CAN be addictive if you have other issues. But is not physically addictive like other drugs including cigerettes and alcohol. The next major study which is something that is applicable to my job as a mental health professional, is that children who use pot chronically prior to the age of 15 are far more likely to have a mental pathology in adulthood. Either anxiety dissorder, depression, bi-polar...etc. So this is the difficult part. I have no problem with recreation use of pot for adults. In fact for many adults it can be a good way to cope with anxiety and other chronic health issues. But I would support controling its access like booze and tobacco. A great quote that helps put pot in perspective, "have you ever seen a drunk homeless person rolling in the gutter with a joint in their hand?" Pot is far more benigne than alcohol, and causes far less cost to society than both alcohol and tobacco. I like the sensible approach places like Holland, Vancover, and California have taken towards pot. And the US needs to totally re-evaluate its approach to drugs. It is a national disgrace that 70% of federal prison inmates are there for non violent drug offenses. Use that money for mental health treatment and education, not for prison!
Now having said that...there are a lot of people who struggle with pot "addiction" and it can be a powerful psychological addiction, like any substance or activity. And I do not think young children should have access to the drug. Legislate age restrictions, control distribution, and tax it. That seems like a responsible and sane approach to something provided by nature.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-05-08 08:42 by whitem8.

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Mathijs

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Baboon Bro
Way way far too many a friends of mine
have lost their sanity, minds, lives etc fore
I could embrace this drug. Hashisch psycosis must not
be totally unknown in Netherlands either... ?

Brit's staying for a long week-end -they first drink 20 pints of lager, Mathijs

Well, I'd rather the lager. The stuff you smoke is obviously very different to what we get here in the UK, Mathijs. It most definitely has psychological effects.

Psychosis after smoking pot too often (too strong and too much to) IS also in the Netherlands a problem that pops up 'regularly', regularly in the sense that it happens, it's not just an incident. But, it's not that masses of people suffer from psychosis. In this sense, cannabis isn't a bit more harmful than anything other, I even believe that seen in social perspective, it is far less harmful than alcohol or even smoking tobacco.

As I said earlier, the connection between cannabis and the increased riks of psychosis has been proven. It's younger heavier/frequent users that have an increased risk.

I know a guy at my study who smoked pot every other night in his studenthome, he ended up in a psychosis about 6 years ago and today still isn't capable of doing anything for more than 4 hours a day. He himself from the earliest moment it happened, and his docters/phsichiatrists too, are all convinced of the cannabis being the cause.

But still, as I said: those problems are far less frequent than those other forbidden fruits cause.

People who have smoked weed or anything else are, in my opinion, totally useless in a not-stoned social context. Also, I personally think that the act of smoking it in public/crowded places is anti-social in itself, due to the penetrant smell. But in the end, users are not agressive, not harmful to others. Used wisely, there's much less wrong with cannabis than with alcohol/tobacco/etcetera.

Jelle

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Mathijs

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Baboon Bro
Way way far too many a friends of mine
have lost their sanity, minds, lives etc fore
I could embrace this drug. Hashisch psycosis must not
be totally unknown in Netherlands either... ?

Frankly? It's totally unknown in Holland. If you smoke too much Hash/Marijuana all that happens is that you fall over and wake up a couple hours later. No "psycosis" or whatever.

Mathijs

This must be the absoute stupidiest post (nevermind by bad
English today, coz now I'm very upset) ever posted on this board.

I can see from your lack of life experience, Mathijs, that you're probably
many years younger than me. Guitar expert, perhaps, but for sure
this is a total unknown field for you.

Read your fellow-landsman Sluissie's post below. You write like I was some kinda American, but I am a Swede & I dont sympathize too much with
my own country's rigid & extremely restrictive pot-politics,
as booze here is seen as some kinda religion.

What you know and the Truth aint necessarily the same, Mathijs. Same for
me. But what I d o know, is that many of my youth friends ended up
hangin themselves or at some mental asylum. Too many to neglect.
And that's only from hashisch.