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Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: letitloose ()
Date: August 1, 2008 19:39

Well that brings a tear to the eye! Incredible how one artist can be so polarizing. The one thing I do agree with others about is his hit or miss live performances. I saw him on the Gold tour at the Glasgow QMU and he was incredible. He played for three hours, told loads of witty stories and even invited an audience member up to sing a cover of an old stooges song while he played the drums. It was incredible. He finished up with a solo performance of The bar is a beautiful place. I have the full show on bootleg and still play it regularly. Saw him again about two years ago and he was awful. He seemed to be in a foul mood and never spoke once to the audience. Musically it was actually quite good but he just looked like he wanted to be somewhere else.

As for his songs......I love houses on the hill, come pick me up, Oh my sweet Carolina, La ciena just smiled, when stars go blue, the house is not for sale.

God, I really should get his recent stuff. He seems to have that prolific output that the greats (Dylan, Neil Young etc) had in their prime.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Adrian-L ()
Date: August 1, 2008 20:21

I See Monsters




Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Barn Owl ()
Date: August 1, 2008 21:26

Quote
stoned in washington dc

you need to stop posting on this thread because you're not adding anything and you're not taking the olive branch..

in my opinion he sucks. end of story. i understand that you don't give two shits about my opinion but don't pretend to know me or why i think the way i do.. i don't have to write a critical analysis for you! i'll be i've listened to ryan adams before you even knew he existed.. i've seen him live and i've heard most of his records.. thats good enough.. AND by the way - you speak of respect- but ryan adams didn't show any respect for me or the rest of the paying customers at the 930 club a few years back.. putting a pitiful drunken performance on is not respect.

and there are people who are far more diverse than ryan and diversity per se is not something to be applauded... AC DC is not diverse and yet they are a kickass rock and roll band. chuck berry is arguably not diverse but without him we wouldn't even have the rolling stones.... moreover, ryan's diversity is probably part of the problem.

Jesus, what olive branch? The one that says, he sucks, end of?

And if, as you're suggesting, diversity is something NOT to be applauded, then you seriously need your head (and ears) examined. The very strength of Bob Dylan, Neil Young, The Beatles, The Stones etc is their ability to take chances and re-invent themselves time after time; to push the boat out and challenge their audiences instead of finding a simple formulae and safely sticking with it.

Like him or not, Ryan Adams does exactly this, which is what makes him a brilliant artist and not some go-through-the-motions corporate puppet, like so many new (and older) bands these days.

You stick with your boring, predictable, unchallenging, formulaic, commercial drudge.

...diversity is YOUR problem, not Ryan's.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Adrian-L ()
Date: August 1, 2008 22:00

the awesome 'Carolina Rain'




Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Slick ()
Date: August 1, 2008 22:18

Quote
micawber K
SONG FOR KEITH

Sitting round thinking ‘bout Keith all day long
Getting stoned thinking ‘bout how he played the guitar
Ain’t nothing like getting stoned to The Rolling Stones
Can’t find my copy of Goats Head Soup
Think it’s under my clothes
Having drinks taking some pills and playing in ‘A’
Dressing up pretending it’s 1973
Ain’t nothing like getting stoned to the Rolling Stones
Go get my copy of Let It Bleed
I got some papers and weed
God damnit where are my smokes?
This ain’t nothing but a song for Keith
This ain’t nothing but a song for Keith
This ain’t nothing but a song for Keith
Ronnie Wood back when he had his Own Album To Do
Was pretty good but dammit I love Mick Taylor too
Ain’t nothing like getting high spinning Love You Live
Making out with some movie star
I’d rather listen to Exile
This ain’t nothing but a song for Keith
This ain’t nothing but a song for Keith
This ain’t nothing but a song for Keith
This ain’t nothing but a song for Keith
This ain’t nothing but a song for Keith
This ain’t nothing but a song for Keith
Baby

Woo-hoo-hoo Woo-hoo-hoo
Woo-hoo-hoo Woo-hoo-hoo
Woo-hoo-hoo Woo-hoo-hoo
Woo-hoo-hoo Woo-hoo-hoo
maybe its better with the music instead of just the words... Woo-hoo-hoo Woo-hoo-hoo lol

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Slick ()
Date: August 1, 2008 22:22

Quote
Hairball
It seems he's more popular in Europe than in America...like David Hasslehoff.
lmao!

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Slick ()
Date: August 1, 2008 22:29

Quote
stoned in washington dc
ryan adams didn't show any respect for me or the rest of the paying customers at the 930 club a few years back.. putting a pitiful drunken performance on is not respect.
westerberg did the same thing there a couple years ago, but it was an amazing night... then again, he isnt a total poseur like ryan adams lol.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: LOGIE ()
Date: August 1, 2008 22:50

Quote
Slick
Quote
Hairball
It seems he's more popular in Europe than in America...like David Hasslehoff.
lmao!

...and thank God the likes of Britney Spears, Shania Twain, Celine Dion and Justin Timberlake are still bigger in the states.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Slick ()
Date: August 2, 2008 00:00

Quote
LOGIE
Quote
Slick
Quote
Hairball
It seems he's more popular in Europe than in America...like David Hasslehoff.
lmao!

...and thank God the likes of Britney Spears, Shania Twain, Celine Dion and Justin Timberlake are still bigger in the states.
dont forget robbie williams.... oh, wait...

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Date: August 2, 2008 00:06

Quote
Barn Owl
Quote
stoned in washington dc


you need to stop posting on this thread because you're not adding anything and you're not taking the olive branch..

in my opinion he sucks. end of story. i understand that you don't give two shits about my opinion but don't pretend to know me or why i think the way i do.. i don't have to write a critical analysis for you! i'll be i've listened to ryan adams before you even knew he existed.. i've seen him live and i've heard most of his records.. thats good enough.. AND by the way - you speak of respect- but ryan adams didn't show any respect for me or the rest of the paying customers at the 930 club a few years back.. putting a pitiful drunken performance on is not respect.

and there are people who are far more diverse than ryan and diversity per se is not something to be applauded... AC DC is not diverse and yet they are a kickass rock and roll band. chuck berry is arguably not diverse but without him we wouldn't even have the rolling stones.... moreover, ryan's diversity is probably part of the problem.

Jesus, what olive branch? The one that says, he sucks, end of?

And if, as you're suggesting, diversity is something NOT to be applauded, then you seriously need your head (and ears) examined. The very strength of Bob Dylan, Neil Young, The Beatles, The Stones etc is their ability to take chances and re-invent themselves time after time; to push the boat out and challenge their audiences instead of finding a simple formulae and safely sticking with it.

Like him or not, Ryan Adams does exactly this, which is what makes him a brilliant artist and not some go-through-the-motions corporate puppet, like so many new (and older) bands these days.

You stick with your boring, predictable, unchallenging, formulaic, commercial drudge.

...diversity is YOUR problem, not Ryan's.



man you're a condescending prick.. what a rude post...i remind you this is a stones board.. take your geek/fandom to the ryan adams board.


the olive branch was saying that i think he sucks but others are entitled to think he's great.. that is an olive branch.. i'm not abrogating the truth for myself whereas you are! for you if someone thinks ryan adams sucks then its question their knowledge, question what they listen to, question their critical analysis, question their sanity...

diversity is fine but when it goes from the smiths whine rock through the dead and all the way to the stones it sounds bit fake doesn't it? sounds a bit forced and not too genuine... i don't recall the stones having a morrissey fixation do you?

brilliant?? on what planet? there's nothing brilliant about ryan adams (in my opinion hoser).. .there's nothing brilliant about having 1 or 2 good albums out of 10 ..there's nothing brilliant about shoddy live performances that more than one IORR poster has attested to... there's nothing brilliant about being prolific for the sake of being prolific irregardless of whether the material holds up.. and ryan adams does not hold up....he was a media darling boy for a long time so don't get on your radio doesn't play him which is why he doesn't do well.. he's courted media attention left and right dating parker posey etc... so don't give me this the guy is being shunned by radio and the press. he's gotten WAY MORE THAN HIS FAIR SHARE of attention..its just too bad his songs ain't all that and a bag of chips.

i've had it with your crap barn owl.. this is a stones board ok.. and some of us don't appreciate either ryan adams or his pathetic keith richards impression.. so leave it at that an move on.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-02 00:14 by stoned in washington dc.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: LOGIE ()
Date: August 2, 2008 00:07

I WILL forget Robbie Williams, thank you!!!!

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Adrian-L ()
Date: August 2, 2008 00:16

...andd you can keep Garth Brooks as well, thank you.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Barn Owl ()
Date: August 2, 2008 00:28

Quote
stoned in washington dc
Quote
Barn Owl
Quote
stoned in washington dc


you need to stop posting on this thread because you're not adding anything and you're not taking the olive branch..

in my opinion he sucks. end of story. i understand that you don't give two shits about my opinion but don't pretend to know me or why i think the way i do.. i don't have to write a critical analysis for you! i'll be i've listened to ryan adams before you even knew he existed.. i've seen him live and i've heard most of his records.. thats good enough.. AND by the way - you speak of respect- but ryan adams didn't show any respect for me or the rest of the paying customers at the 930 club a few years back.. putting a pitiful drunken performance on is not respect.

and there are people who are far more diverse than ryan and diversity per se is not something to be applauded... AC DC is not diverse and yet they are a kickass rock and roll band. chuck berry is arguably not diverse but without him we wouldn't even have the rolling stones.... moreover, ryan's diversity is probably part of the problem.

Jesus, what olive branch? The one that says, he sucks, end of?

And if, as you're suggesting, diversity is something NOT to be applauded, then you seriously need your head (and ears) examined. The very strength of Bob Dylan, Neil Young, The Beatles, The Stones etc is their ability to take chances and re-invent themselves time after time; to push the boat out and challenge their audiences instead of finding a simple formulae and safely sticking with it.

Like him or not, Ryan Adams does exactly this, which is what makes him a brilliant artist and not some go-through-the-motions corporate puppet, like so many new (and older) bands these days.

You stick with your boring, predictable, unchallenging, formulaic, commercial drudge.

...diversity is YOUR problem, not Ryan's.



man you're a condescending prick.. what a rude post...i remind you this is a stones board.. take your geek/fandom to the ryan adams board.


the olive branch was saying that i think he sucks but others are entitled to think he's great.. that is an olive branch.. i'm not abrogating the truth for myself whereas you are! for you if someone thinks ryan adams sucks then its question their knowledge, question what they listen to, question their critical analysis, question their sanity...

diversity is fine but when it goes from the smiths whine rock through the dead and all the way to the stones it sounds bit fake doesn't it? sounds a bit forced and not too genuine... i don't recall the stones having a morrissey fixation do you?

brilliant?? on what planet? there's nothing brilliant about ryan adams (in my opinion hoser).. .there's nothing brilliant about having 1 or 2 good albums out of 10 ..there's nothing brilliant about shoddy live performances that more than one IORR poster has attested to... there's nothing brilliant about being prolific for the sake of being prolific irregardless of whether the material holds up.. and ryan adams does not hold up....he was a media darling boy for a long time so don't get on your radio doesn't play him which is why he doesn't do well.. he's courted media attention left and right dating parker posey etc... so don't give me this the guy is being shunned by radio and the press. he's gotten WAY MORE THAN HIS FAIR SHARE of attention..its just too bad his songs ain't all that and a bag of chips.

Listen dickhead, I know very well that this is a Stones website but why should that stop me from defending Ryan Adams from brain-dead tosspots like yourself? As I recall, only the other week, you were arguing the toss about AC/DC, and getting all hot and bothered because someone was having a go at them.

Pot calling the kettle, don't ya think?

And by your own criteria, does it mean that if there were more than one person criticising AC/DC does that technically mean that they are shite?

As for Ryan Adams liking Morrissey, the Grateful Dead and the Stones, amongst a zillion others I might add, what the hell is wrong with that?

Or do you want the rest of the world to be just like you, listening to just ONE type of music and sod all else?

...or are you scared of what might people might say?

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Date: August 2, 2008 00:50

Quote
Barn Owl
Quote
stoned in washington dc
Quote
Barn Owl
Quote
stoned in washington dc


you need to stop posting on this thread because you're not adding anything and you're not taking the olive branch..

in my opinion he sucks. end of story. i understand that you don't give two shits about my opinion but don't pretend to know me or why i think the way i do.. i don't have to write a critical analysis for you! i'll be i've listened to ryan adams before you even knew he existed.. i've seen him live and i've heard most of his records.. thats good enough.. AND by the way - you speak of respect- but ryan adams didn't show any respect for me or the rest of the paying customers at the 930 club a few years back.. putting a pitiful drunken performance on is not respect.

and there are people who are far more diverse than ryan and diversity per se is not something to be applauded... AC DC is not diverse and yet they are a kickass rock and roll band. chuck berry is arguably not diverse but without him we wouldn't even have the rolling stones.... moreover, ryan's diversity is probably part of the problem.

Jesus, what olive branch? The one that says, he sucks, end of?

And if, as you're suggesting, diversity is something NOT to be applauded, then you seriously need your head (and ears) examined. The very strength of Bob Dylan, Neil Young, The Beatles, The Stones etc is their ability to take chances and re-invent themselves time after time; to push the boat out and challenge their audiences instead of finding a simple formulae and safely sticking with it.

Like him or not, Ryan Adams does exactly this, which is what makes him a brilliant artist and not some go-through-the-motions corporate puppet, like so many new (and older) bands these days.

You stick with your boring, predictable, unchallenging, formulaic, commercial drudge.

...diversity is YOUR problem, not Ryan's.



man you're a condescending prick.. what a rude post...i remind you this is a stones board.. take your geek/fandom to the ryan adams board.


the olive branch was saying that i think he sucks but others are entitled to think he's great.. that is an olive branch.. i'm not abrogating the truth for myself whereas you are! for you if someone thinks ryan adams sucks then its question their knowledge, question what they listen to, question their critical analysis, question their sanity...

diversity is fine but when it goes from the smiths whine rock through the dead and all the way to the stones it sounds bit fake doesn't it? sounds a bit forced and not too genuine... i don't recall the stones having a morrissey fixation do you?

brilliant?? on what planet? there's nothing brilliant about ryan adams (in my opinion hoser).. .there's nothing brilliant about having 1 or 2 good albums out of 10 ..there's nothing brilliant about shoddy live performances that more than one IORR poster has attested to... there's nothing brilliant about being prolific for the sake of being prolific irregardless of whether the material holds up.. and ryan adams does not hold up....he was a media darling boy for a long time so don't get on your radio doesn't play him which is why he doesn't do well.. he's courted media attention left and right dating parker posey etc... so don't give me this the guy is being shunned by radio and the press. he's gotten WAY MORE THAN HIS FAIR SHARE of attention..its just too bad his songs ain't all that and a bag of chips.

Listen dickhead, I know very well that this is a Stones website but why should that stop me from defending Ryan Adams from brain-dead tosspots like yourself? As I recall, only the other week, you were arguing the toss about AC/DC, and getting all hot and bothered because someone was having a go at them.

Pot calling the kettle, don't ya think?

And by your own criteria, does it mean that if there were more than one person criticising AC/DC does that technically mean that they are shite?

As for Ryan Adams liking Morrissey, the Grateful Dead and the Stones, amongst a zillion others I might add, what the hell is wrong with that?

Or do you want the rest of the world to be just like you, listening to just ONE type of music and sod all else?

...or are you scared of what might people might say?

i'm out dude.. you're an ass.

i never get that excited if people don't like ac dc.. in fact ultimately i defended the right of the person who was having a go at them to do that!

thats the difference

you speak of diversity but when someone- who listens to a lot of music and is informed- disagrees with you regarding ryan adams you can't handle it.

i'm pretty confident ac dc kicks ass...i'm pretty confident ryan adams sucks balls

enjoy your ryan adams dude.. the problem is you can't handle others not agreeing that he is great.. thats pretty weak man...

you're not ryan adams are you??? maybe you are if so why did you suck so bad at the 930 club when i saw you??? man that was lame!

you get to into trying to decipher what other posters are all about! you don't know me @#$%&! you don't know that my main love is jazz for example.. you friggin idiot. or that i'm going to see loretta lynn tomorrow.. you don't know shit basically but you love to make assumptions..



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-02 00:56 by stoned in washington dc.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Barn Owl ()
Date: August 2, 2008 00:56

...bye, bye.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Date: August 2, 2008 00:59

Quote
Barn Owl
...bye, bye.
yeah good riddance LOSER.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Barn Owl ()
Date: August 2, 2008 01:09

I thought you'd f**cked off!

Make up your mind (for once). Are you going or what?

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: FrankM ()
Date: August 3, 2008 03:26

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-03 03:55 by FrankM.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Justin ()
Date: August 3, 2008 04:24




Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Barn Owl ()
Date: August 3, 2008 05:18

Quote
FrankM
-

...speechless, as per the usual.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: MissNBrian ()
Date: August 4, 2008 09:55

Quote
Justin
Quote
Jed Clever
He even blows the lyrics to Dead Flowers

yeah well so does Keith. And your point?

well, in this case, I'd give Keith a 'pardon' on that, since he co-wrote the song. So he can sing it however he wants smiling smiley This is just my opinion

"Doctor please, some more men please,
To Cotchford Farm, out by the pool...

What a drag it is they couldn't revive him"

Brian Jones 2/28/42 - 7/2/69

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: going_to_a_go_go ()
Date: August 5, 2008 15:42

Quote
stoned in washington dc
i'm out dude.. you're an ass.

i never get that excited if people don't like ac dc.. in fact ultimately i defended the right of the person who was having a go at them to do that!

thats the difference

you speak of diversity but when someone- who listens to a lot of music and is informed- disagrees with you regarding ryan adams you can't handle it.

i'm pretty confident ac dc kicks ass...i'm pretty confident ryan adams sucks balls

enjoy your ryan adams dude.. the problem is you can't handle others not agreeing that he is great.. thats pretty weak man...

you're not ryan adams are you??? maybe you are if so why did you suck so bad at the 930 club when i saw you??? man that was lame!

you get to into trying to decipher what other posters are all about! you don't know me @#$%&! you don't know that my main love is jazz for example.. you friggin idiot. or that i'm going to see loretta lynn tomorrow.. you don't know shit basically but you love to make assumptions..

The only ass I've seen in this thread is you. You keep repeating yourself. Barn Owl hammered you. And I doubt very much you've ever listened to Ryan Adams albums. You might have seen him on a shit night, but everyone has off nights. You're full of shit, basically.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: NickB ()
Date: August 5, 2008 16:10

If Ryan Adams has done one thing it's caused such a divisive rift. Debate is a good thing but not when it boils down to trading personal insults. Come on guys/girls be nice. It's only R' n R' it's not exactly the presidential election is it?

I happen to think Ryan Adams is a great artist because he has influences that are wide ranging and they crop up in his music. Variety is the spice of life. At least all his records sound different unlike ACDC. I have all his albums apart from the last one whereas I only have one ACDC album....Back In Black and it is fantastic.

NickB

You can't always get what you want.....

www.myspace.com/thesonkings

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Date: August 5, 2008 16:32

Quote
going_to_a_go_go
Quote
stoned in washington dc
i'm out dude.. you're an ass.

i never get that excited if people don't like ac dc.. in fact ultimately i defended the right of the person who was having a go at them to do that!

thats the difference

you speak of diversity but when someone- who listens to a lot of music and is informed- disagrees with you regarding ryan adams you can't handle it.

i'm pretty confident ac dc kicks ass...i'm pretty confident ryan adams sucks balls

enjoy your ryan adams dude.. the problem is you can't handle others not agreeing that he is great.. thats pretty weak man...

you're not ryan adams are you??? maybe you are if so why did you suck so bad at the 930 club when i saw you??? man that was lame!

you get to into trying to decipher what other posters are all about! you don't know me @#$%&! you don't know that my main love is jazz for example.. you friggin idiot. or that i'm going to see loretta lynn tomorrow.. you don't know shit basically but you love to make assumptions..

The only ass I've seen in this thread is you. You keep repeating yourself. Barn Owl hammered you. And I doubt very much you've ever listened to Ryan Adams albums. You might have seen him on a shit night, but everyone has off nights. You're full of shit, basically.

wow and you have four posts.. you might want to take it easy around here kid or head somewhere else...

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: NickB ()
Date: August 5, 2008 16:39

Come on stoned in washington dc please stop perpetuating the slanging match and discuss music. It wasn't nice what he called you but that's unreasonable in my opinion.

I'll stop being the cop now.

NickB

You can't always get what you want.....

www.myspace.com/thesonkings

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: Adrian-L ()
Date: August 5, 2008 17:03

The incredible 'Goodnight Hollywood Blvd', played live.

If you don't enjoy this- check your pulse...you're probably dead.




Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: going_to_a_go_go ()
Date: August 5, 2008 18:36

Quote
stoned in washington dc
Quote
going_to_a_go_go
Quote
stoned in washington dc
i'm out dude.. you're an ass.

i never get that excited if people don't like ac dc.. in fact ultimately i defended the right of the person who was having a go at them to do that!

thats the difference

you speak of diversity but when someone- who listens to a lot of music and is informed- disagrees with you regarding ryan adams you can't handle it.

i'm pretty confident ac dc kicks ass...i'm pretty confident ryan adams sucks balls

enjoy your ryan adams dude.. the problem is you can't handle others not agreeing that he is great.. thats pretty weak man...

you're not ryan adams are you??? maybe you are if so why did you suck so bad at the 930 club when i saw you??? man that was lame!

you get to into trying to decipher what other posters are all about! you don't know me @#$%&! you don't know that my main love is jazz for example.. you friggin idiot. or that i'm going to see loretta lynn tomorrow.. you don't know shit basically but you love to make assumptions..

The only ass I've seen in this thread is you. You keep repeating yourself. Barn Owl hammered you. And I doubt very much you've ever listened to Ryan Adams albums. You might have seen him on a shit night, but everyone has off nights. You're full of shit, basically.

wow and you have four posts.. you might want to take it easy around here kid or head somewhere else...

There you go judging a persons worth by "How much" they have of something.

Well done again on proving once again that you are, in fact, an idiot.

And it's "Wow" not "wow" as you are beginning a sentence.

Also, an ellipsis (I imagine you'll have to google the meaning of that word) is "...", not ".."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll tell you what, we'll start off with teaching you proper English grammar. Then, when you've finally mastered the art of writing the English language, maybe someone here will finally take you serious about music.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: LightBulb_Sunset ()
Date: August 10, 2008 19:00

Quote
CrazyDadda


...

I made this vid... basically I video'd it because Ryan Adams was trying to talk and all these drunken people in the background kept yelling, didn't really do it because he was talking about Keith Richards -- it just so happened that he was....
dfdslkfns

the fighting in this thread is so petty and stupid!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-10 19:29 by LightBulb_Sunset.

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: NickB ()
Date: August 11, 2008 14:54

Just bought Easy Tiger on Saturday. Brilliant album.

NickB

You can't always get what you want.....

www.myspace.com/thesonkings

Re: Ryan Adams Talks About Keith Richards
Posted by: ablett ()
Date: August 11, 2008 15:14


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