little queenie,

it was 'just a job' - a means to get money. I had no problem with it cos I ate animals then. I mean, if you eat the stuff, you should be prepared to work in one.

But if many meat-eaters saw what goes on in slaughter-houses, or if they had to do the killing themselves, they'd soon question their dietary habit.

But really, and worse, it's how they are treated when alive, that's the real inhumanity.

When we gave up eating animal-muscle and other body-parts it made us go and get new cook-books - and we discovered a whole world of foods/recipes that otherwise we would never have discovered. Cooking became more fun - and actually more flavoursome.

We live in UK. Most shops have all the ingredients. Perhaps a different 'shopping cuture' here? A MacDonald's in every town though.

Guys all over the world would benefit if they followed
closely the life style of the native Australian male Wombat....

He just eats roots and leaves...



ROCKMAN

I dont give the tiniest cr*p if people eat meat or not:
it's 20-25 years ago I thought I could save or even change the world.

People do it if they want.

And I defend killin' of predators when their population gets too high;
and whale hunting might not always be wrong either. Once I ate
bear meat at a Russian restaurant in Stockholm; mighty stuff.

I quit meat last summer when I met my new lurv. Easiest that way,
since she did quit meat some good couple decades earlier.

...But that Singer quote is hard to get outta yer system, innit?

Quote
Baboon Bro
I dont give the tiniest cr*p if people eat meat or not:
it's 20-25 years ago I thought I could save or even change the world.

People do it if they want.

And I defend killin' of predators when their population gets too high;
and whale hunting might not always be wrong either. Once I ate
bear meat at a Russian restaurant in Stockholm; mighty stuff.

I quit meat last summer when I met my new lurv. Easiest that way,
since she did quit meat some good couple decades earlier.

...But that Singer quote is hard to get outta yer system, innit?

often, overpopulation of a species is because we've thrown off the balance somewhere else. for example, overhunting of wolves have increased the coyote population - coyotes no longer have a lot of competititon. human overhunting of deer in the beginning of the last century caused the cougar population to disappear in the midwest US - no food.

however, the US department of fish/game manages some deer populations by cutting "edge" into forests, so deer flock there for food, increasing their populations then hunters say "we need to kill them because there's an overpopulation"! it's a human-made overpopulation.

i can't think of why it would be OK to kill whales - i don't think there's any overpopulation, especially since many are still endangered, having been hunted close to extinction. even if there were a lot, they're wonderous and majestic creatures - very social and sentient.

We're gettin close to the great O & T, politics.. But... I have
an Arctic/Circumpolar/Indigenous peoples perspective on this.
Eskimos and Inuits and to some extent, the Northern Norweigans,
need to use whale for food. Wolves etc eat tame reindeers.
Seals and certain bird species destroy all fishing subsistence ground
and tools for fishermen here: only 5-6 families left in all my county.
While 25,000 seals live outside our coast, they are only allowed to shoot 30.
Why? Because the seals are "neat".

We have all the reasons to be questioning excessive hunting,
yet we mustnt leave the foot folk's & nomad's perspective,
we musnt replace their points with some city-slick & smart notions, right?

Cheers from the contradictionarist Baoon...

ok - well if their environment leaves with not much option to obtain food otherwise, then i certainly understand. and really, this thread is about global warming and how large scale factory farms use tons of resources and produce tons of waste.

however, not all indiginous peoples who hunt whale are living in that kind of vaccuum. many in north america's most northern regions live with many of the same conveniences as others, like 7-11. but there's a "cultural tradition" that they'd like to uphold. i can understand that too, but feel then they should use the cultural tools and skip the speed boats and mechanized harpoons. too many whales are left on the beach to rot - they are left there for people to take meat from, but not enough partake. off the coast of seattle, the local tribe are allowed to kill a certain amount, but also injure many on the way - the injured whales escape and slowly die but they are not counted in their number.

i haven't heard about the seal/fishing situation there (remind me of where you are) but here in the states, it's come up again that on the west coast, locals want to kill sea lions because they eat salmon. the real problem is that the salmon numbers are low because of commercial overfishing. i think it's pathetic that we're blaming the sea lions for it - killing them is like putting a band-aid on a festering wound.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-24 03:05 by little queenie.

Interesting discussion, LQ.. Alas have to hit the bear fur
.. Not much whale around here (Mid Swedish Bothnic Gulf coast),
but since I'm 1/4 Norweigan, so.. Seals actually do the destroy
the fishermen's gear and we must not
as WASPs or WSAs (white Swedish Ateists) tell the Samis
or Native Americans or Greenland Inuits, Alaskan Eskimos
nor Taymyr Nganasan Samoyeds how to peform their anciend rights, right?
(possible response you will have to wait for till at least tomorrow..
24h from this that is... ).

It's a matter of whether you put on a Economic, Ecologic or Ethnic
perspective.. Or, if put this way: Biologistic or Humanistic.

Finally I can recommend to go veggie... Far-out, maaan ..

Ok - goodnight BB, sleep well. i will look forward to hearing how the seals destroy the fishermens' gear! usually i hear about the nets that catch unintended victims who drown as a result, etc.

in general, i think it's OK to question "cultural tradition" - it's so taboo to do so but why? so many claim culture as a defense - i hear it a lot from circus owners who use elephants, for example. and here in the US and elsewhere, having (human) slaves was an accepted part of culture (of course it still happens but is hidden).

it seems in the end, people will defend humans before they defend animals - then it gets into deeper levels of animal rights philosophy - why - what makes the difference? the capacity to suffer is the same, etc.

and as a side thought - should we question putting a 7-11 in an inuit town?

but yes, we are very off topic now.

Popped by, night, Queenie... Since I've been a Sami historian for 15 years
now, I tend to get their eyes. Today animals have their defenders,
yet it aint no longer politically correct to stand up for modern indigenous peoples.
'Coz we gotta question them as well.
Till the next time.. Hope to see ya on this side of the pond some day!
2:30 here now, gotta be up by 6:30, so...

yes, everything should be open to scrutiny!

i was in stockholm for the cirkus show in '03 - i'd like to make it there again. found an interesting veg restaurant with a piano player. i enjoy following the stones and checking out the veg restaurants around the world.

Yet to discover all great veggie rest., Queenie, since I'm so new in this biz.

After I was the Samis major expert in the latest Land Right Case
I took some lectures where I did some heavy scrutiny on their behaviour
in the reindeer forest. Always done this type angles as a university teacher.

check out the following site for list of veg restaurants around the world. tim ries (who is also vegetarian) found it helpful for when he's on tour with the boys:

[www.happycow.net]

Someone sent this to me, I couldn't help finding an excuse to share...


The Truth About Diets

Q: I've heard that cardiovascular exercise can prolong life; is this true?
A: Your heart is only good for so many beats, and that 's it... don't waste them on exercise. Everything wears out eventually. Speeding up your heart will not make you live longer; that's like saying you can extend the life of your car by driving it faster. Want to live longer? Take a nap.

Q: Should I cut down on meat and eat more fruits and vegetables?
A: You must grasp logistical efficiencies. What does a cow eat? Hay and corn. And what are these? Vegetables. So a steak is nothing more than an efficient mechanism of delivering vegetables to your system. Need grain? Eat chicken. Beef is also a good source of field grass (green leafy vegetable). And a pork chop can give you 100% of your recommended daily allowance of vegetable products.

Q: Should I reduce my alcohol intake?
A: No, not at all. Wine is made from fruit. Brandy is distilled wine, that means they take the water out of the fruity bit so you get even more of the goodness that way. Beer is also made out of grain. Bottoms up!

Q: How can I calculate my body/fat ratio?
A: Well, if you have a body and you have fat, your ratio is one to one. If you have two bodies, your ratio is two to one, etc.

Q: What are some of the advantages of participating in a regular exercise program?
A: Can't think of a single one, sorry. My philosophy is: No Pain...Good!

Q: Aren't fried foods bad for you?
A: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING!!! .... Foods are fried these days in vegetable oil. In fact, they're permeated in it. How could getting more vegetables be bad for you?

Q: Will sit-ups help prevent me from getting a little soft around the middle?
A: Definitely not! When you exercise a muscle, it gets bigger. You should only be doing sit-ups if you want a bigger stomach.

Q: Is chocolate bad for me?
A: Are you crazy? HELLO... Cocoa beans! Another vegetable!!! It's the best feel-good food around!

Q: Is swimming good for your figure?
A: If swimming is good for your figure, explain whales to me.

Q: Is getting in-shape important for my lifestyle?
A: Hey! 'Round' is a shape!


Well, I hope this has cleared up any misconceptions you may have had about food and diets.


For those of you who watch what you eat, here's the final word on nutrition and health. It's a relief to know the truth after all those conflicting nutritional studies.

1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

3. The Chinese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

4. The Italians drink a lot of red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

5. The Germans drink a lot of beers and eat lots of sausages and fats and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

CONCLUSION

Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.
________________________________________

macca's a ****, everyone knows.

Quote
therollingmanu
macca's a ****, everyone knows.

Oh no he isn't.

I saw a comedian on TV say, "Brad Pitt has lately been doing some activism to save the planet. Well, of course you want to save the planet, Brad. The planet has been good to you!"

I'm not so sure about soy for westerners
Asians have been eating it for 1000 years
Not the case with us.

Anyways sorry Paul I'm not there yet with you
I likes me chickens and fish.

Is he going to stop animals eating animals?

makes me want to fix myself a steak dinner

Vegetarianism is as for example philantrophy later stages in a Maslow's hierachy of needs. It occurs when your basic needs are more than satisfied. At least in the Western World. You can also be a vegetarian due to religious reasons.

Mac Macca's

Steak Pie tonight then!

I could not do it meat is sooooooooo good. Veggies are boring. i've gone to a vegetarian's house for dinner and I end up stopping for something to eat when I leave because I am still hungry. My daughter is vegetarian as soon as she stopped eating meat her complexion changed, she take vitamin and protein supplements and is not as healthy as she was when she ate meat.

Macca did not say it was murder but some of the posters did blah blah blah I'm sick of that crap!!

Quote
Amsterdamned
Mac Macca's

Or you could just snort their ashes ....

Quote
GravityBoy
Is he going to stop animals eating animals?

Solution. Put McCartney and the hypocritical person who pretensiously calls himself bono in a rocket to explore other galaxies. Beouf filet bleu Sir keith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-05 22:26 by belld.