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bassplayer617
As I listen to excerpts from the SAL soundtrack, my answer is no, I'm not bored with the current Stones.

To Logie, sycophancy isn't expected, but it is apparent that fan boards of this sort do generate a high amount of hypercriticism. Some of it is perhaps warranted, but most of it isn't. It almost seems as if some fans want to outdo each other in "creative slagging", which is occasionally humorous, but usually it's ludricrous.

Any criticism that the band receive within the confines of these message boards is very tame indeed compared to the general opinion of the music-loving public out there. To a great many of them, the Stones are perceived at best, as a tolerable, but ludicrous geriatric laughing-stock who haven't made a decent record in decades.

Yet, when a few genuine Stones fans (including myself) are honest enough to admit to becoming a touch bored with what the Stones have allowed themselves to become, it is somehow construed as "hypercriticism".

Do you not think that it could be hyper-sensitivity on your behalf, along perhaps, with a genuine fear of those who do not share your point of view?

Remember that the post asked of our opinion on a Stones-related topic.

We simply gave it.

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Markdog
It is especially irritating now that Ronnie is sober and playing so well and yet Keith's ego won't let Ronnie take leads he use to have or let him have the 2nd lead if there is one.

BINGO!

Imagine SFTD Keith on rhythm guitar, and Ronnie on lead, extended jamming it too.

Can you hear it?

I have a whole ABB Tour boot in my head of it, something that would make these boards scream in ecstasy.

A boot that would make it easy to answer the critics who say "the Stones suck, the Stones have not been able to play for years anymore."

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lamemodem2

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LOGIE

What is it you want on these discussion boards?

Something interesting. I'm board with the "Stones suck now ... SAL is the worst live album ever ... I'm bored ..." threads. Those are opinions, not criticism. And while opions are more than welcome, you and plenty of others aren't saying anything new. I get it. It's not 1969 and the band can't play Sympathy, etc. like they used to. Thanks for the piercing insight.

Is it really so hard to enjoy SAL? Is there nothing of value on the CD in your eyes?

I know what you are saying. I hear it too. But I also hear a lot that makes me smile. A lot that makes me remember why I love the Rolling Stones.

I would much rather it be the way that it is with the Stones than the way it is with Led Zeppelin. So Mick, etc. have lost a step or two. Did you expect them not too? I feel sorry for those that can't enjoy what they have and only focus on what they don't.

If you happen to like what the Stones are doing, then that's great! You certainly won't have me telling you that you're wrong to, or that you've been taken in, or that you should really have seen them in 1969 or whatever. On the contrary...I wish I still shared your enthusiasm. It's just that I don't.

...and that is my point.

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lamemodem2

...I feel sorry for those that can't enjoy what they have and only focus on what they don't.

Let's hope that these folks don't carry this negative and unhappy attitude in their real lives. Misery, unfortunately, is contagious to the weak-willed.

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LOGIE

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bassplayer617
As I listen to excerpts from the SAL soundtrack, my answer is no, I'm not bored with the current Stones.

To Logie, sycophancy isn't expected, but it is apparent that fan boards of this sort do generate a high amount of hypercriticism. Some of it is perhaps warranted, but most of it isn't. It almost seems as if some fans want to outdo each other in "creative slagging", which is occasionally humorous, but usually it's ludricrous.

Any criticism that the band receive within the confines of these message boards is very tame indeed compared to the general opinion of the music-loving public out there. To a great many of them, the Stones are perceived at best, as a tolerable, but ludicrous geriatric laughing-stock who haven't made a decent record in decades.

I don't have any problem with people giving opinions critical to the Stones here or anywhere else. But I have to say, I have never heard or read in recent years more stringent criticism of them outside this board. I don't see any of the professional reviews of SAL saying they are a 'ludicrous geriatric laughing stock' - far from it, most have been respectful of their talent and continued professionalism. So I do question where you get your ideas about the 'general opinion of the music-loving public' from.

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LOGIE
...I wish I still shared your enthusiasm. It's just that I don't.

...and that is my point.

Yet you continue to post here. What, exactly, do you hope to accomplish by sharing your disillusionment?

i had this feeling for the first time with "no security". it just didnt move me at all. and that didnt change since then. but i can listen for the 10000 time to gimme shelter and i still gives me the creeps! they will forever be the coolest, greatest band on earth and i love them so much, but i honestly think the last tour they were able to deliver 100% was voodoo lounge maybe BTB. and in the last 3-5 years the decline was fast, espacialy for keith. its sad in a way, but hey: time waits for no one.

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bassplayer617

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LOGIE
...I wish I still shared your enthusiasm. It's just that I don't.

...and that is my point.

Yet you continue to post here. What, exactly, do you hope to accomplish by sharing your disillusionment?

Maybe Logie want people to get out of their sofa, and see for themselves. WHen was the last time you saw Rolling Stones in concert, bassplayer?
If one know what one think about a certain issue, one wouldn't be troubled by other peoples opinions - like you seem to be.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-05 23:50 by Erik_Snow.

Hypothetical scenario: Tomorrow we get the shocking, sad news: One of the Stones have died.To all the bored people out there, boredom problem solved.

Sorry I had to say that but this flipping thread is going round in circles.

As I stated earlier,it's becoming about getting the last word and the original topic becomes somewhat of an irrelevance.

Well, Erik, I hope you aren't disturbed by the fact that I still enjoy the band.

And, to be honest, it does perturb me that former fans persist in their slagging. Youn answer me, then -- why would they continue in doing this? Simply because they can? Another word for this is trolling.

OK, I'll give you this -- no matter what we say, it doesn't make one whit of difference, so there's no point in arguing over it. It's all an exercise in rhetoric, is it not? (wink)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-06 00:11 by bassplayer617.

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bassplayer617
Youn answer me, then -- why would they continue in doing this? Simply because they can? Another word for this is trolling.

Then you don't know what trolling is. Some folks on this board may spray their criticism on every thread about the modern Rolling Stones - which can be annoying after a while. Nevertheless, not every poster here who have a different opinion than you, belong to that spraying-category. And the headline of this thread, states a critisicm of the current Stones, so why would fragile souls like you and lamemodem bother to read this at all? Just to show your need of "teaching others"?
If you ask for my opnion; I think there are great moments in every Stones tour, but I relate to some of the stuff Logie is talking about when it comes to the sidemusicians and the "safe" way of doing it. The best RS moments is when one can focus on the 4 Rolling Stones - and not the circus.
It speaks volumes when the best live moment of this decade is Richards doing a one-off in Austin 2006, without the annoying company on stage, and it being the ONLY performance of that song, ever



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-06 03:04 by Erik_Snow.

I just get fed up with the Stones releasing too much recent live material where they're way past their best but there remains so little released material out there of them when they were genuinely at their peak. I don't think their recent output is doing their reputation any good in the longterm, and i wish they'd release 'Ladies And Gentlemen' instead, plus a live cd (or preferably a double) of when they were firing on all cylinders preferably when Taylor was in the group. I just get sick of all this second rate material being released almost yearly.

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bassplayer617
It's all an exercise in rhetoric, is it not? (wink)

well but thats what forums are made for. to talk, to discuss! no?
to each his own! i wont ever be bored with their history, their fantatsic songs, their pre 1982 days. but i honestly think they should stopp touring! otherwise they'll end up as a laughingstock just like chuck berry...keith is already close sometimes.

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guitarbastard

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bassplayer617
It's all an exercise in rhetoric, is it not? (wink)

well but thats what forums are made for. to talk, to discuss! no?
to each his own! i wont ever be bored with their history, their fantatsic songs, their pre 1982 days. but i honestly think they should stopp touring! otherwise they'll end up as a laughingstock just like chuck berry...keith is already close sometimes.

Okey dokey. "Pre-1982?" You dismiss the last few tours entirely? One of my buddies is a former bandmate who dismisses it all except for a certain five-year period. I've heard it time and again.

Let me put it this way -- in my 22 years of playing in bands, I saw numerous personnel changes, and some lineups are personal favorites. However, I long ago realized that past glories cannot be recaptured, so I've accepted the maturation of the Stones.

They will know when it's time to stop. Keep this in mind -- when that happens, we will all be lessened by their absence. To me, it'll be like the passing of a beloved elder family member. Seriously. Declining, quirky and perhaps disappointing at times, but never a laughingstock. It's called unconditional love. It may sound overtly sentimental, but that's my POV.

Welll the answer to the original question is yes. I have been for a long time, I think the Stones at the height of their creative peak were the best band ever, but that's been and gone a long time ago.

But the reason I wouldn't and don't go to great lengths to post such observations on site like this one is that really by doing so you're raining on a lot of people's parades, particularly the regular posters many of whom derive a lot of pleasure from their unstinting support of the band and will devote a lot of time and money following the band whenever it tours or as now releases a film, which I and I suspect a few others regard as a rather sad lost opportunity - they could have released a documetary much in the vein of Scorsese's excellent Dylan doc "No Direction Home" only even better as it's the Stones with access to footage much of which would have been unseen and revelatory , instead we get yet another look at the aging rockers, tramping round stadiums, propped up by a phalanx of session men, with all the loyal fans displaced as the cameras pan round a sea of Paris Hilton clones.

But really such observations will gain you few friends here and the best thing to do is keep your own counsel, no one really is going to give a damn one way or another, such critiques convert nobody and only cause irritation and in some cases apoplexy.

And that I wouldn't want to do.

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mikey
Welll the answer to the original question is yes. I have been for a long time, I think the Stones at the height of their creative peak were the best band ever, but that's been and gone a long time ago.

But the reason I wouldn't and don't go to great lengths to post such observations on site like this one is that really by doing so you're raining on a lot of people's parades, particularly the regular posters many of whom derive a lot of pleasure from their unstinting support of the band and will devote a lot of time and money following the band whenever it tours or as now releases a film, which I and I suspect a few others regard as a rather sad lost opportunity - they could have released a documetary much in the vein of Scorsese's excellent Dylan doc "No Direction Home" only even better as it's the Stones with access to footage much of which would have been unseen and revelatory , instead we get yet another look at the aging rockers, tramping round stadiums, propped up by a phalanx of session men, with all the loyal fans displaced as the cameras pan round a sea of Paris Hilton clones.

But really such observations will gain you few friends here and the best thing to do is keep your own counsel, no one really is going to give a damn one way or another, such critiques convert nobody and only cause irritation and in some cases apoplexy.

And that I wouldn't want to do.

Excellent. That's a concise,considered post Mikey.

As long as they are touring, I will continue to see them. I haven't NOT enjoyed a show (how do you like those double negatives) since the 1978 tour.

@Harm
Are they not showing it at the Imax in Amsterdam?????
WTF???

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bassplayer617

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lamemodem2

...I feel sorry for those that can't enjoy what they have and only focus on what they don't.

Let's hope that these folks don't carry this negative and unhappy attitude in their real lives. Misery, unfortunately, is contagious to the weak-willed.

I'm becoming a bit scared as to the intolerance you have of those who happen to disagree with you!

Whatever happened to free opinion and debate?

Fanatical fundamentalism...it's just a kiss away.

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bassplayer617
W

And, to be honest, it does perturb me that former fans persist in their slagging. Youn answer me, then -- why would they continue in doing this? Simply because they can? Another word for this is trolling.

Your are 100% right bassplayer, this is the one thing I cannot understand is the motivation of people to make a blanket statement that the stones suck now on a stones fans board?? not syaing that people don't have a right, not saying it is wrong to be critical. I have been critical of them at times, I hated steel wheels, didn't, like dirty work either, not a fan of the 89/90 tour BUT if I felt they were worthless I simply would not be here, to do so would be trolling.

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Lady Jayne

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LOGIE

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bassplayer617
As I listen to excerpts from the SAL soundtrack, my answer is no, I'm not bored with the current Stones.

To Logie, sycophancy isn't expected, but it is apparent that fan boards of this sort do generate a high amount of hypercriticism. Some of it is perhaps warranted, but most of it isn't. It almost seems as if some fans want to outdo each other in "creative slagging", which is occasionally humorous, but usually it's ludricrous.

Any criticism that the band receive within the confines of these message boards is very tame indeed compared to the general opinion of the music-loving public out there. To a great many of them, the Stones are perceived at best, as a tolerable, but ludicrous geriatric laughing-stock who haven't made a decent record in decades.

I don't have any problem with people giving opinions critical to the Stones here or anywhere else. But I have to say, I have never heard or read in recent years more stringent criticism of them outside this board. I don't see any of the professional reviews of SAL saying they are a 'ludicrous geriatric laughing stock' - far from it, most have been respectful of their talent and continued professionalism. So I do question where you get your ideas about the 'general opinion of the music-loving public' from.

Try wearing a Stones tour tee-shirt at your local pub, or at the gig of another band, and you'll see where I'm coming from!

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Ket
not syaing that people don't have a right, not saying it is wrong to be critical. I have been critical of them at times, I hated steel wheels, didn't, like dirty work either, not a fan of the 89/90 tour BUT if I felt they were worthless I simply would not be here, to do so would be trolling.

Wouldn't it be just as correct to say that you, lamemodem and bassplayer are trolling in mr Stonerelics thread?
A "Rolling Stones messageboard" isn't supposed to look like the concertreviews on IORR's mainpage - not everyone thinks like you do.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-06 03:10 by Erik_Snow.

yeah. i've got no interest in this movie or another corporate stadium trawl this year or next either

either they step up to the plate and deliver something worthwhile (ala Neil Young) or they call it a day

i have enough old Stones stuff to keep that fix taken care of. and there are a million other bands i cna listen to also

[/quote]

I don't have any problem with people giving opinions critical to the Stones here or anywhere else. But I have to say, I have never heard or read in recent years more stringent criticism of them outside this board. I don't see any of the professional reviews of SAL saying they are a 'ludicrous geriatric laughing stock' - far from it, most have been respectful of their talent and continued professionalism. So I do question where you get your ideas about the 'general opinion of the music-loving public' from.[/quote]

Try wearing a Stones tour tee-shirt at your local pub, or at the gig of another band, and you'll see where I'm coming from![/quote]

Well if you wear a Stones t shirt at another band's gig I'm not surprised you provoke a hostile response but that's about (male) tribal loyalties not a rational reflection of the general music loving public's taste. Wear a Man U shirt to a Bolton Wanderer's game and you are likely to hear a few negative opinions - that doesn't mean the majority of football fans think Man U are an inferior team!

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bassplayer617

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LOGIE
...I wish I still shared your enthusiasm. It's just that I don't.

...and that is my point.

Yet you continue to post here. What, exactly, do you hope to accomplish by sharing your disillusionment?

For chrissakes bassplayer, I'm not here to accomplish anything at all.

I come on this board (like so many others) to contribute to the general discussion of the Rolling Stones and their long and wonderful history as arguably the greatest rock and roll band in the world. In doing so, I have made many, many friends, and met many hundreds more at gigs around Europe. All thanks to this message board.

I also believe that the forum is made so much more interesting by the number of contributors who talk and share information about so many other bands and artistes. Moreover, it can be about humour, candour, intelligence, and the opportunity to sometimes get involved in frank and interesting discussions.

Some, such as myself, also like to contribute many rare, hard-to-find articles and pictures from my personal archives, as well as share experiences from my long "career" as a Stones fan.

Please tell me what YOU have to offer to this board apart from a profound self-rightousness, an unswaying, blinkered devotion to your "favourite group" and an almost fanatical disdain for those who don't sing from your hymnn sheet?

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Lady Jayne

I don't have any problem with people giving opinions critical to the Stones here or anywhere else. But I have to say, I have never heard or read in recent years more stringent criticism of them outside this board. I don't see any of the professional reviews of SAL saying they are a 'ludicrous geriatric laughing stock' - far from it, most have been respectful of their talent and continued professionalism. So I do question where you get your ideas about the 'general opinion of the music-loving public' from.[/quote]

Try wearing a Stones tour tee-shirt at your local pub, or at the gig of another band, and you'll see where I'm coming from![/quote]

Well if you wear a Stones t shirt at another band's gig I'm not surprised you provoke a hostile response but that's about (male) tribal loyalties not a rational reflection of the general music loving public's taste. Wear a Man U shirt to a Bolton Wanderer's game and you are likely to hear a few negative opinions - that doesn't mean the majority of football fans think Man U are an inferior team![/quote]

I can see your point if it was just U2 fans, say.

But why should fans of Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young and Ryan Adams (to provide a few examples) have anything against the Stones in terms of rivalry? Many of these people see them as a band who are generally naff and uninteresting, with no longer anything creative to offer.

...and as for the younger people with whom I work with....well, let's not go there!!

Try wearing a Stones tour tee-shirt at your local pub, or at the gig of another band, and you'll see where I'm coming from![/quote]

Well if you wear a Stones t shirt at another band's gig I'm not surprised you provoke a hostile response but that's about (male) tribal loyalties not a rational reflection of the general music loving public's taste. Wear a Man U shirt to a Bolton Wanderer's game and you are likely to hear a few negative opinions - that doesn't mean the majority of football fans think Man U are an inferior team![/quote]

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I wear Stones T-shirts, as well as AC/DC T-shirts to almost all concerts and clubs I go to. I have never received a negative comment, occasionally positive, but usually no comment at all.

Maybe this is a European thing?

"Any criticism that the band receive within the confines of these message boards is very tame indeed compared to the general opinion of the music-loving public out there. To a great many of them, the Stones are perceived at best, as a tolerable, but ludicrous geriatric laughing-stock who haven't made a decent record in decades."

Come now Logie. The great many you are speaking of must be fans of inferior bands. ALL of their modern records have gotten either mixed or good reviews so where do you come up with them not making a decent record in decades? In Logieland? In the real world they have made many, many "decent" records in the last few decades.

"Try wearing a Stones tour tee-shirt at your local pub, or at the gig of another band, and you'll see where I'm coming from!"

Perhaps the pubs you visit are filled with @#$%& that lack musical taste. I don't get any adverse reactions when I walk around with Stones shirts on.

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LOGIE

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Lady Jayne

I can see your point if it was just U2 fans, say.

But why should fans of Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young and Ryan Adams (to provide a few examples) have anything against the Stones in terms of rivalry? Many of these people see them as a band who are generally naff and uninteresting, with no longer anything creative to offer.

...and as for the younger people with whom I work with....well, let's not go there!!

I'm sorry you have had such negative reactions - like the other two posters above that hasn't been my experience, although I don't wear Stones stuff to other gigs. I can only say that, working in the music industry, when the freebies are handed out it is always Stones tickets that everyone wants whatever their age/musical tastes. Noone thinks they are at the cutting edge of current trends and, yes, most of us think their meaningful song writing days are long past. But in terms of live acts they are still the ones to beat and I have never heard them described as 'uninteresting' except on this board!

I also have worn stones tshirts to pubs and even work and newver have recieved any negative comments.