OK, we all know that official live releases are generally doctored, but to claim that Ya-Ya's is the best "live" album of all time is just wrong. The actual overdubs have been cited chapter & verse, but it seems strange that fans gloss over the studio enhancements.

I heard a few of the actual audience recordings (bootlegs, of course), and Jagger's vocals were, to put it kindly, somewhat "off". I've also listened to the Apple acetate, and there are interesting differences from the final released product (Keith's overdubbed lead licks in JJF, for example, were removed).

Had this LP been released with the original concert sound intact, it would've been slagged mercilessly.

Why is it that post-1969 live albums get criticized for the overdubs, but this alleged "greatest ever" somehow gets forgiven for using the same editing techniques?

It doesn't get criticized because they got it right, the perfect balance between a 1969 live recording that's been perfected with studio overdubs.

As a fan, I always prefer the warts and all stuff, but the mass market expects more than that, ie perfection, and that's what that album delivers.

The feel of that tour is captured on that record though, even with the overdubs. That is why it is so celebrated!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2008-03-23 23:20 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
It doesn't get criticized because they got it right, the perfect balance between a 1969 live recording that's been perfected with studio overdubs.

As a fan, I always prefer the warts and all stuff, but the mass market expects more than that, ie perfection, and that's what that album delivers.

The feel of that tour is captured on that record though, even with the overdubs. That is why it is so celebrated!

What else can we say...............thanks HM

__________________________

And just to note: all overdubs are only on the vocals -half of Jagger's lead vocals are redone, and about all of Keith's backing vocals. There are NO instrumental overdubs what so ever.

Compare the audience tape of the 11/27 gig with Ya-Ya's: I think they did a great job in capturing that marvelous performance.

Mathijs

Whatever Ya Ya's is, its fantastic. My favorite album.

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doubledoor
Whatever Ya Ya's is, its fantastic. My favorite album.

Yep, when it comes to Ya-Ya's, you can talk about love! You love its soul, overdubbed or not!

As I suspected, GYYO has become regarded as something resembling Holy Writ, despite its questionable authenticity.

Yeah, it's good, but I'll shut up before I'm regarded as a heretic.

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bassplayer617
As I suspected, GYYO has become regarded as something resembling Holy Writ, despite its questionable authenticity.

Yeah, it's good, but I'll shut up before I'm regarded as a heretic.

Nah, the point is that the end product is separate from the technical details. We know it's a doctored live album , but its still great and captures the magic of that tour!

Bootlegs or not, it's obvious to all that is was the beginning of something special.

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bassplayer617
As I suspected, GYYO has become regarded as something resembling Holy Writ, despite its questionable authenticity.

Yeah, it's good, but I'll shut up before I'm regarded as a heretic.

OK,so tell me the name of one official undoctored live album?

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

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bassplayer617
As I suspected, GYYO has become regarded as something resembling Holy Writ, despite its questionable authenticity.

Yeah, it's good, but I'll shut up before I'm regarded as a heretic.

No one has cast aspersions your way bassplayer and you certainly have a right to express your view and no one here has denied you that. In fact, everyone here agrees it is overdubbed (vocals only though, not that it really matters to me) what really matters is if you like it or not. As for me, overdubs not withstanding, it's my favorite Stones album, "live" or otherwise. However I do disagree when you say it isn't a live album. It is, with vocal overdubs!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-03-24 02:08 by ChrisM.

charmed wrote:

OK,so tell me the name of one official undoctored live album?


A couple claim to be - Both named "Absolutely Live" - one by The Doors, one by Rod Stewart.

"No Anchovies, Please"

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It Isn't A Live Album

Thats earth-shattering news but I think I will not return it to the shop.

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Elmo Lewis
charmed wrote:

OK,so tell me the name of one official undoctored live album?

The original Who Live at Leeds was undoctored. There were no studio overdubs (such as vocals, or extra guitar). there were only a couple of minor edits.

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Happy Jack

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Elmo Lewis
charmed wrote:

OK,so tell me the name of one official undoctored live album?

The original Who Live at Leeds was undoctored. There were no studio overdubs (such as vocals, or extra guitar). there were only a couple of minor edits.

Au contraire. I've read that the reissued two-disc version DID have later vocal overdubs, but that's irrelevant to the subject at hand. We were discussing a Stones album.

Well I was referring to Stones live albums. But my point has been made. Overdubs,doctored whatever. The best live album is the one that plays in your head on any given day.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

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sweetcharmedlife
Well I was referring to Stones live albums. But my point has been made. Overdubs,doctored whatever. The best live album is the one that plays in your head on any given day.

Okey dokey. The ones that play in my head have never been officially released.

anyone know the first "live" rock album to employ overdubbing?
whatever it was...i wonder if it was to correct a technical
problem like microphone failure or guitar feedback....or if
it was for more vain reasons.


IORR............but I like it!

Didn't Dave Mason release a "Certified Live" album in the mid to late 70s?

Also, I haven't noticed any difference between the original Live at Leeds and the newer, complete show version. Have the dubs and such been documented?


p

if you listen to the doors box set disc 2 live in new york 1970 you'll hear a a fake recording of gloria that was edited together from a 1969 show . so my point is all bands basically overdubbed

I don't think there were any overdubs on any of the Jimi Hendrix live albums- Monterey, Woodstock, Fillmore East

Dire Straits didn't overdub their live performances, There may be the odd wart if it's pointed out but they left them alone, they were that good live so there was no need for it. They were proof that it can be done.

Which doesn't say much for those who 'fix in the mix', including, I'm sad to say, my fave band.

CSNY's live Four Way Street - no overdubs.

At the time it was released, Ya Ya's was a real shock and event. Classics revisited with genius. JJF, MR and SFTD on focus. Noone cared about overdubs or not. That was not an issue really. Who cared about that.

Hmm, taking the requirements of the original post, there are no any Stones 'live' albums then, just one EP? Something wrong with the definations?

- Doxa

P.S. I think phd nails it above. It's a damn great record that manifests the live sound of the greatest rock and roll band when THE sound was born; it's unique, original, and genious in its own terms.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-03-24 11:24 by Doxa.

Overdubbed or not, I'd probably go as far as to declare Ya Yas as the greatest album of all time.

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Elmo Lewis
charmed wrote:

OK,so tell me the name of one official undoctored live album?


A couple claim to be - Both named "Absolutely Live" - one by The Doors, one by Rod Stewart.

AFAIK "Absolutely Live" by the Doors mixes bits and pieces not only of different shows but also of different song performances. I'd surely call this docotored ;-)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-03-24 20:34 by Greenblues.

If it's not the greatest live album ever then it must be the greatest studio album of all time. One or the other it has to be.

Your also talking about the recording technology of 1969. The soundboard's of the day were probably, at best, sixteen track mixers. Since the venues weren't equipped with "house-sound", I would think that to expect an album quality recording, like you can buy right after a show today ( allman bros. for one), just never occurred to the band's of the 60's. Overdub's were a given. The live shows may have sounded great in a hockey arena, but couldn't be captured properly from a mobile mixer. Hence the Stones Mobile, maybe.

To note: only HALF of Jagger's vocals were redone (JJF, Stray Cat, Little Queenie, Live With me), and they added Keith's vocals - I don't see why a live album then suddenly becomes a "doctored" album.

Mathijs

Too Late Too Stop Now - Van Morrison has no doctoring or overdubs, In fact Vam refused to have one track corrected where there was a minor technical problem and had it dropped instead.

I'm sure that there are quite a few undoctered live albums around, TOO LATE TOO STOP NOW is one if the finest Live albums doctered or not. who really cares anyway, you like what you hear or you dont.

Does mixing count as doctoring, or do we have to rely on the live mix, not just the vcls/instrmts but audience noize.