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Yeah, I haven't seen any sources claim that Brian was forced to leave, or that he somehow strongly opposed the idea. Being such a 'pain in the ass' or dysfunctional he had quite clearly showed that he had not any will (or ability) to contribute anymore in the band. The famous visit by Mick, Keith and Charlie to Cotchford was a sort of final settlement, a kind of 'okay, Brian, enough is enough. Let's stop bullshitting. We are going to back to road again. Decisions needs to made now. Are you in or out? You don't need to answer - we all know the only possible answer ". Some sources (especially Wyman) say that what happened then was more like sorting out the technical matters of the departure - the decision was already made by both parties (Wyman claims in ROLLING WITH THE STONES that Brian phoned to others that he had decided to go - this happened prior the famous visit).
Hmm.. how I have the feeling that bringing up the topic of Brian Jones might cause some flames soon...
- Doxa
There is no question about it: there is a photo Brian holding the guitar with which he played the famous intro. Afterwards Keith purposively smashed the guitar to destroy all the evidence, and claimed to have invented and played the @#$%&!
- Doxa
thanks with sssoul
I'm not sure if Bill says it like that...
I think it's more like Brian had hinted about leaving during a session in early? May.
Brian also called the band at Olympic just prior to the infamous visit, telling them he'd just had the press asking him about whether he was leaving or not, at this time he denied it.
Yeah, you are probably right. Perhaps my memory does me some tricks, and I don't have the book available now. But the point still holds that, according to Wyman's book, Brian had informed the others of his (probable) departure. Of course, we can speculate - if he was so fragile as is sometimes told - that his hints of leaving were more like a gesture of crying empathy from the others, like to get the reaction as "c'mon, Brian, we love you, don't go". Or it might be the case that he wanted to tease the others, knowing that they had plans to tour and everything...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-01 16:37 by Doxa.
As always I think youre right about the theory of a gesture. I believe he wanted to be needed by the others or something like that. And I do believe he was a bit stunned about actually being fired. And when it really sunk in...well I have my theory about his death.
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Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
rocks off
()
Date: February 1, 2008 07:56
I just finished Stone Alone and in the book, Bill claims that Brian accepted his "dismissal" from the band.
This is contrary to almost all of the reports I have read in the past.
Any thoughts?
This is contrary to almost all of the reports I have read in the past.
Any thoughts?
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: February 1, 2008 09:04
I think the both parties (Brian and the rest) recognized that the 'divorce' was inevitable. But because the ties were so tight originally, it wasn't so easy one to accomplish, and the whole process took finally some years. I think the basic problem was that Brian didn't feel like home in 'Mick and Keith's' band - the band he thought was actually his brainchild. Ego trip.
- Doxa
P.S. I don't think Brian's departure from the Stones and his death are causally or logically linked, so the title of this thread a kind of confused me.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-01 09:13 by Doxa.
- Doxa
P.S. I don't think Brian's departure from the Stones and his death are causally or logically linked, so the title of this thread a kind of confused me.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-01 09:13 by Doxa.
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: February 1, 2008 10:53
>> I don't think Brian's departure from the Stones and his death are causally or logically linked,
so the title of this thread a kind of confused me. <<
i don't think Bill's book was in any way responsible for Brian's death either. :E
ahem i mean: i don't know of any sources that claim Brian *didn't* accept the parting of ways.
basically it sounds like he'd already quit, so that famous "dismissal" was mainly about clarifying the situation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-01 20:44 by with sssoul.
so the title of this thread a kind of confused me. <<
i don't think Bill's book was in any way responsible for Brian's death either. :E
ahem i mean: i don't know of any sources that claim Brian *didn't* accept the parting of ways.
basically it sounds like he'd already quit, so that famous "dismissal" was mainly about clarifying the situation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-01 20:44 by with sssoul.
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: February 1, 2008 11:39
Quote
with sssoul
>> i don't think Bill's book was in any way responsible either.
ahem i mean: i don't know of any sources that claim Brian *didn't* accept the parting of ways.
basically it sounds like he'd already quit, so that famous "dismissal" was mainly about clarifying the situation.
Yeah, I haven't seen any sources claim that Brian was forced to leave, or that he somehow strongly opposed the idea. Being such a 'pain in the ass' or dysfunctional he had quite clearly showed that he had not any will (or ability) to contribute anymore in the band. The famous visit by Mick, Keith and Charlie to Cotchford was a sort of final settlement, a kind of 'okay, Brian, enough is enough. Let's stop bullshitting. We are going to back to road again. Decisions needs to made now. Are you in or out? You don't need to answer - we all know the only possible answer ". Some sources (especially Wyman) say that what happened then was more like sorting out the technical matters of the departure - the decision was already made by both parties (Wyman claims in ROLLING WITH THE STONES that Brian phoned to others that he had decided to go - this happened prior the famous visit).
Hmm.. how I have the feeling that bringing up the topic of Brian Jones might cause some flames soon...
- Doxa
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
LA FORUM
()
Date: February 1, 2008 12:59
Brian wrote Gimme Shelter!
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: February 1, 2008 13:17
LA Forum's having a relapse - i shall light the incense of recovery for him.
(LA F, don't post crap! your recent youtube battles should have demonstrated that when someone posts crap
some hapless readers come along who don't know better than to believe it. it's a form of vandalism.)
(LA F, don't post crap! your recent youtube battles should have demonstrated that when someone posts crap
some hapless readers come along who don't know better than to believe it. it's a form of vandalism.)
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: February 1, 2008 14:18
Quote
LA FORUM
Brian wrote Gimme Shelter!
There is no question about it: there is a photo Brian holding the guitar with which he played the famous intro. Afterwards Keith purposively smashed the guitar to destroy all the evidence, and claimed to have invented and played the @#$%&!
- Doxa
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
LA FORUM
()
Date: February 1, 2008 14:25
Quote
with sssoul
LA Forum's having a relapse - i shall light the incense of recovery for him.
thanks with sssoulRe: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: February 1, 2008 14:40
sigh: i'm lighting it for Doxa too. see, i told you that feral-child routine is contagious ...
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 1, 2008 15:01
Quote
Doxa
(Wyman claims in ROLLING WITH THE STONES that Brian phoned to others that he had decided to go - this happened prior the famous visit).
- Doxa
I'm not sure if Bill says it like that...
I think it's more like Brian had hinted about leaving during a session in early? May.
Brian also called the band at Olympic just prior to the infamous visit, telling them he'd just had the press asking him about whether he was leaving or not, at this time he denied it.
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: February 1, 2008 16:36
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Doxa
(Wyman claims in ROLLING WITH THE STONES that Brian phoned to others that he had decided to go - this happened prior the famous visit).
- Doxa
I'm not sure if Bill says it like that...
I think it's more like Brian had hinted about leaving during a session in early? May.
Brian also called the band at Olympic just prior to the infamous visit, telling them he'd just had the press asking him about whether he was leaving or not, at this time he denied it.
Yeah, you are probably right. Perhaps my memory does me some tricks, and I don't have the book available now. But the point still holds that, according to Wyman's book, Brian had informed the others of his (probable) departure. Of course, we can speculate - if he was so fragile as is sometimes told - that his hints of leaving were more like a gesture of crying empathy from the others, like to get the reaction as "c'mon, Brian, we love you, don't go". Or it might be the case that he wanted to tease the others, knowing that they had plans to tour and everything...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-01 16:37 by Doxa.
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: February 1, 2008 17:59
Quote
Doxa
Hmm.. how I have the feeling that bringing up the topic of Brian Jones might cause some flames soon...
- Doxa[/quote
Same feeling here. Although, it must be mentioned to their honour, Miss U. and the BJ Fanclub people were (suspiciouly?) quiet in recent months. But they are probably extremely busy to prepare the world for the big "plot is thickening" news they promised us since, oh, two or three years or so.
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
parislocksmith
()
Date: February 1, 2008 18:10
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 16:23 by parislocksmith.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 16:23 by parislocksmith.
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: February 1, 2008 18:38
weird - doesn't Tony Sanchez have a story something like that, only the reason Mick ended up shoving Brian
is that Brian had been pretending he needed rescuing and thought it hilarious when Mick dove in to save him?
it was all in about three feet of water, if memory serves - which it may not.
if that's the same incident as parislocksmith has in mind, it's worth noting that it supposedly happened
way before the spring of 69 - more like 66 or 67. (the "meeting arranged" in parislocksmith's post
almost sounds like what's meant is the "parting of ways" meeting at Cotchford Farm in may 69 -
but i'm sure that's not at all what's meant.)
is that Brian had been pretending he needed rescuing and thought it hilarious when Mick dove in to save him?
it was all in about three feet of water, if memory serves - which it may not.
if that's the same incident as parislocksmith has in mind, it's worth noting that it supposedly happened
way before the spring of 69 - more like 66 or 67. (the "meeting arranged" in parislocksmith's post
almost sounds like what's meant is the "parting of ways" meeting at Cotchford Farm in may 69 -
but i'm sure that's not at all what's meant.)
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
parislocksmith
()
Date: February 1, 2008 18:58
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 16:23 by parislocksmith.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 16:23 by parislocksmith.
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: February 1, 2008 19:05
smile: welcome to the anorak club - it looks good on you! :E
and yeah, i was thinking Sanchez said Redlands was the scene of that little episode,
but i lacked conviction, so i left it out. it was all in the famous moat, which was about three feet deep.
were there weapons waved around too in Sanchez's version, or was that another incident?
i forget, and the book's all the way across the room.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-01 19:07 by with sssoul.
and yeah, i was thinking Sanchez said Redlands was the scene of that little episode,
but i lacked conviction, so i left it out. it was all in the famous moat, which was about three feet deep.
were there weapons waved around too in Sanchez's version, or was that another incident?
i forget, and the book's all the way across the room.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-01 19:07 by with sssoul.
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
parislocksmith
()
Date: February 1, 2008 19:15
.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 16:21 by parislocksmith.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 16:21 by parislocksmith.
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: February 1, 2008 19:49
ah okay - the weapons must be some other episode.
so what's his timeframe for this charming moat scenario - 67 or 68, i gather?
so what's his timeframe for this charming moat scenario - 67 or 68, i gather?
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
parislocksmith
()
Date: February 1, 2008 19:55
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 16:21 by parislocksmith.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 16:21 by parislocksmith.
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
LA FORUM
()
Date: February 1, 2008 20:08
Quote
DoxaQuote
His MajestyQuote
Doxa
(Wyman claims in ROLLING WITH THE STONES that Brian phoned to others that he had decided to go - this happened prior the famous visit).
- Doxa
I'm not sure if Bill says it like that...
I think it's more like Brian had hinted about leaving during a session in early? May.
Brian also called the band at Olympic just prior to the infamous visit, telling them he'd just had the press asking him about whether he was leaving or not, at this time he denied it.
Yeah, you are probably right. Perhaps my memory does me some tricks, and I don't have the book available now. But the point still holds that, according to Wyman's book, Brian had informed the others of his (probable) departure. Of course, we can speculate - if he was so fragile as is sometimes told - that his hints of leaving were more like a gesture of crying empathy from the others, like to get the reaction as "c'mon, Brian, we love you, don't go". Or it might be the case that he wanted to tease the others, knowing that they had plans to tour and everything...
- Doxa
As always I think youre right about the theory of a gesture. I believe he wanted to be needed by the others or something like that. And I do believe he was a bit stunned about actually being fired. And when it really sunk in...well I have my theory about his death.
Re: Bill's book and Brian's death
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: February 1, 2008 20:44
>> Just prior to his going to record Joujouka. Early summer 1968? <<
Brian's Joujouka sessions were late july 1968, according to nzentgraf.de -
thanks parislocksmith for looking that anecdote up.
have some popcorn and enjoy your newfound anorak-ism!
Brian's Joujouka sessions were late july 1968, according to nzentgraf.de -
thanks parislocksmith for looking that anecdote up.
have some popcorn and enjoy your newfound anorak-ism!
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