are in the original Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+ the 6L6 tubes?

What's your question exactly? The original Mk IIC+ has two or four European made (by Svetlana) 6L6 tubes, branded as Mesa/Boogie.

The tubes Boogie now sells under their own brand are all Chinese, and all terrible. Get rid of them as soon as you can, and buy some proper NOS tubes from Philips or GE, it will improve the sound 500%.

Mathijs

Yes Matthijs,

thats what i think.
The Mesa Boogie Mark series till the Mark IIC+ sounded like the old Fender´s with the 6L6 tubes and onwards the Mark III sounded like a Marshall amp, because of the different tubes.

Thomas

Hello Mathijs& Thomas guitaro you believe in fairy tales?

If you get a different sound with different tubus with the same specs,there is something seriously wrong with your amplifier.

MTFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Mathijs& Thomas guitaro you believe in
> fairy tales?
>
> If you get a different sound with different tubus
> with the same specs,there is something seriously
> wrong with your amplifier.


Not neccesarily! The same tube type can vary performance wise from manufacturer to manufacturer. It really depends on how well the tube was made.

MTFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Mathijs& Thomas guitaro you believe in
> fairy tales?
>
> If you get a different sound with different tubus
> with the same specs,there is something seriously
> wrong with your amplifier.

The specs even from the same manufacturer vary through the years - never mind different manufacturers^^

ChrisM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MTFan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hello Mathijs& Thomas guitaro you believe in
> > fairy tales?
> >
> > If you get a different sound with different
> tubus
> > with the same specs,there is something
> seriously
> > wrong with your amplifier.
>
>
> Not neccesarily! The same tube type can vary
> performance wise from manufacturer to
> manufacturer. It really depends on how well the
> tube was made.

Yes,as far as amplification and distortion is concerned,
but it still doesn't influence the sound,amplification and distortion are
different items.

MTFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes,as far as amplification and distortion is
> concerned,
> but it still doesn't influence the
> sound,amplification and distortion are
> different items.
-------------------------------------------------------


That's what it's all about - with them Tube Amps.



"In recent years, tubes have developed a poor reputation for reliability.
Most of it seems the result of low-quality imported tubes, primarily Chinese in origin.
A side-effect has been the veneration of new old stock U.S. and European tubes, of types that are still being manufactured but not by the original makers.

Since each manufacturer has its own proprietary formula for cathode coatings and other materials, tubes of the same type but from different manufacturers often sound slightly different.
Since the standards have already been settled as being new old stock types like the RCA black-plate 6L6GC and Telefunken smooth-plate 12AX7 [see Defining Terms, p. 28], those types of tubes have increased in value along with the vintage equipment they were used in originally, even if the tubes end up in new equipment."

[www.spectrum.ieee.org]

You say it exactly: Slightly;very slighty I found it out working prof in that area for 30 years now.
Amplification and a distorted signal are something different than "timbre".
Do you agree on that?

MTFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Mathijs& Thomas guitaro you believe in
> fairy tales?
>
> If you get a different sound with different tubus
> with the same specs,there is something seriously
> wrong with your amplifier.


I agree with you MTfan. This is the same guy that tried to tell me all about Martin guitars after I have been a Martin dealer for 32 years. Philips and GE are made in China anyways. Keep up the good fight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-01 01:35 by My Stones.

My Stones Wrote:

> I agree with you MTfan. This is the same guy that
> tried to tell me all about Martin guitars after I
> have been a Martin dealer for 32 years. Philips
> and GE are made in China anyways. Keep up the good
> fight.

What fight? I see it as an interesting and stimulating discussion. I think the point here is that tubes of the same type but by different manufacturers may not have the same performance characteristics in so far as sound, distortion, amplification and so on go. Remember when Groove Tubes first came out and how they were touted to be much better than the stock tubes that came with many amplifiers? I think that is the the gist of all of this.

As to Martins, I think it is very cool that they and I assume other guitars are part of your working life. My '77 D-28 is my absolute favorite guitar, even more than my '98 Gibson R8. Do you ever post on the unofficial Martin forum at [p082.ezboard.com]
It's pretty cool. Anyway, I wish you, MT Fan (I am too by the way!) and everyone else a great 2008! Keep on picking!

MTFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChrisM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MTFan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Hello Mathijs& Thomas guitaro you believe
> in
> > > fairy tales?
> > >
> > > If you get a different sound with different
> > tubus
> > > with the same specs,there is something
> > seriously
> > > wrong with your amplifier.
> >
> >
> > Not neccesarily! The same tube type can vary
> > performance wise from manufacturer to
> > manufacturer. It really depends on how well the
> > tube was made.
>
> Yes,as far as amplification and distortion is
> concerned,
> but it still doesn't influence the
> sound,amplification and distortion are
> different items.

How is this possible -you say tubes can vary 'as far as amplification is concerned', but 'it doesn't influence the sound'. This is impossible.

A pre-amp tube amplifies the low impedance guitar signal, and shapes the tone. Pre-amp tubes are the most important tubes in you amp when it comes to the 'tone' of your amp.

The power tubes amplify the signal from the pre-amp tubes, and tubes from different manufacturers and even different batches from the same manufacturers do this all just a bit different. Some tubes amplify the bass just a tad better, some the treble frequencies a little better. All power tubes add compression, but some do it in a more musical way (RCA 6L6 anyone), some in a really irritating way. Some tubes add dimension to your sound -vintage tubes have a 3D sound that to this day is not replicated by any new tube yet.

Manufacturers have always constructed their tubes in different ways. Just by looking at the materials and construction I can tell the difference between a Philips, RCA, GE, Svetlana and Tung-Sol 6L6. And, placed in my own Boogie, I can pick out each and every of these manufacturers blindfolded.

Mathijs

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And, placed in my own Boogie, I
> can pick out each and every of these manufacturers
> blindfolded.


If you can really do that, you're not a music fan. You're a superhero.

JumpingKentFlash

My Stones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree with you MTfan. This is the same guy that
> tried to tell me all about Martin guitars after I
> have been a Martin dealer for 32 years.

Fight? I remember that we differed on opinions: I find Martins to sound more bright and piano-like, and Gibson acoustics darker and bluesier. I don't remember a fight.

> Philips
> and GE are made in China anyways.

Philips was made in Holland and Germany until production stopped in the early '70's, GE tubes were made mainly in the US and UK until the early 80's. They were never produced in China.

Mathijs

JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mathijs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And, placed in my own Boogie, I
> > can pick out each and every of these
> manufacturers
> > blindfolded.
>
>
> If you can really do that, you're not a music fan.
> You're a superhero.

No, you just have to know what to look for: RCA has (whem used in my Boogie)deep bass, shimering highs but not so much compression, GE has a little less bass but much more compression, Philips sound squashed with grainy midrange, and Svetlana sounds very upfront, with too much presence. I prefer GE in my amp.

I have tried all these brands, and if you know your own amp well it's easy to tell the difference. I probably will not be able to tell the difference that easy in another amp, especially not with Marshall amps.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-01 18:13 by Mathijs.

To add: some very good tube reviews:

[www.watfordvalves.com]

Mathijs

Mathijs wrote:

"How is this possible -you say tubes can vary 'as far as amplification is concerned', but 'it doesn't influence the sound'. This is impossible."
...............................................................................

Volume=amplification,and has nothing to do with sound..It is about DB: guitarsound is most created by speakers,the guitar,pickups and not the least:
the guitarplayers skill.

Listen to Jeff Beck:You can give him an old radio or a brandnew mesaboogie..
he will sound almost the same in both situations by using the same guitar...He doesn't need some kind of
tube to create his sound.Only beginners think they can create their sound by chanching tubes...It's in the fingers.

End of the discussion as far as I am concerned.


"Never argue with a fool,others might not hear the difference or he beats
you on experience"

Hey Mtfan; All vacuum tubes by GE/Phillips are made in China. There are a few off brands that are made in Russia. I don't know what this Mathisj guy is talking about.
Mr Mathijs. Funny how you get caught up in you own talk. You say one time to get GE and Phillips becasue they are good than in another post you say they aren't produced in certian countries anymore. YUP they are made in CHINA!!! IT SAYS IT RIGHT ON THE TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (you not gonna start telling me about Martin guitars again are you? I guess you think they were made in Holland too

>>I don't know what this Mathisj guy is talking about.<<

maybe you should read more carefully.
Mathijs allready pointed that out with this:

>>Philips was made in Holland and Germany until production stopped in the early '70's, GE tubes were made mainly in the US and UK until the early 80's. They were never produced in China.<<

Hopefully you know what NOS means. if it says Made in China - then it's not NOS.


TQR: What’s the overall state of tube manufacturing today? How many separate manufacturers are actually making tubes for guitar amps, who are they, and where are they located?

VTV: The remaining largest American tube manufacturers such as GE, JAN/Philips, RCA, etc., shut their factories down from during the period of 1977 through 1987. Mullard and Siemens apparently shut their factory doors in the late 1970s. Demand for audio and guitar tubes continued, however, so existing tube factories in China, Eastern Europe and Russia were approached to make popular audio and guitar amp tubes. Now, the demand for tubes continues to grow, as there are more manufacturers of tube hi-fi and tube guitar amps than ever before. More companies, but considerably smaller, in terms of actual production figures.

The following are the current main tube manufacturers, grouped by country:
[www.vacuumtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-02 00:42 by open-g.

Thankfully..after years out in the cold...much of the world's tube production is now under the control of the musical equipment industry and is recognised once again as a viable business to be in.
As a result, the investment is going in and the product is improving.There are once again some very good current production tubes on the market.
You have to cut through a lot of hype [as with anything today] but good tubes can be found.
Are the best of them as good as the rapidly diminishing inventory of NOS US and European production ? Some ARE now getting there.
Choice of tubes can make a significant difference to the performance of an amplifier...and it's a great relief to have a decent choice of good product from sustainable sources.
The increasingly varied and confusing choice is becoming the biggst problem for some folks ! '^)

MTFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Volume=amplification,and has nothing to do with
> sound..It is about DB: guitarsound is most created
> by speakers,the guitar,pickups and not the least:
> the guitarplayers skill.
>
> Listen to Jeff Beck:You can give him an old radio
> or a brandnew mesaboogie..
> he will sound almost the same in both situations
> by using the same guitar...He doesn't need some
> kind of
> tube to create his sound.Only beginners think they
> can create their sound by chanching tubes...It's
> in the fingers.

aaah, this is something entirely different of course. We ALL know that sound is 80% or more in the fingers. It doesn't matter what amp and guitar people like Beck, Keith Richards, Clapton, Taylor or whoever use, they will always sound like themselves. There's no arguing about that. Even amateurs like myself have a very own sound. I can play whatever guitar and amp, and the only response from my band mates will be 'sounds good' or 'doesn't sound good'. My family thinks it all sounds the same.

But that was not my point of course: it's the musician that counts, and I am sure that each and every guitar player I have mentioned can tell the difference between wich amp, speaker, tube, strings, guitar, pick and whatever. There's even guitarists whom say they can hear the difference between a straight or a spiraled guitar chord, and between a half-full and a full 9 volt battery in a overdrive pedal, which I certainly can't. But because most guitarist can hear the difference, they all are on a continuous search for (vintage) gear. Jeff Beck sounds like beck even if he plays a fiddle, but Beck is also quite picky when it comes to his amp and guitar.

I can tell the difference in various tubes in my amp when I am alone in my music room. When the drummer kicks in, I can only tell the difference bewteen a good sounding tube and a not so good sounding tube. On a recording I can tell most of the times the amp and guitar that I'm playing, but that blurs after a while. You tend to forget sounds, and when I listen to recordings from a couple of years back I can only guesstimate what amp and guitar I was using.

Mathijs

My Stones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Mtfan; All vacuum tubes by GE/Phillips are
> made in China. There are a few off brands that are
> made in Russia. I don't know what this Mathisj guy
> is talking about.
> Mr Mathijs. Funny how you get caught up in you
> own talk. You say one time to get GE and Phillips
> becasue they are good than in another post you say
> they aren't produced in certian countries anymore.
> YUP they are made in CHINA!!! IT SAYS IT RIGHT ON
> THE TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (you
> not gonna start telling me about Martin guitars
> again are you? I guess you think they were made in
> Holland too

If you don't know what you're talking about then please stay out of this discusion.

As is explained already, there's a difference between New Old Stock and new production. To this day, new production still isn't as good as NOS, but they are getting close (I have JJ 6V6 in my Tweed Deluxe -sounds almost as good as GE or RCA, but are only a fraction of the price, which is good for a tube-eating amp). JJ is good, Sevtlana is good, Sovtek is decent.

These days some good tubes are produced in Russia and in the Czech Republich, which produce tubes under their own brand name, as well as for big companies like Boogie and Marshall. They also now own some old, famous brand names like Mullard and Tung Sol, which is now owned by the New Sensor Corporation, which is the same parent company as Sovtek and the old Electro-Harmonix.

So, some of the NOS names are being produced again, but unfortunately are not yet comparable in quality.

The biggest producers are in China, but unfortunately the China production is terrible -there is not ONE good sounding tube that is produced in China. Also unfortunately is that the Chinese aren't bothered by brand names and patents, and they literally print whatever they want on the bottle. I have seen Chinese Mullards, Tung Sol's, Svetlana's, Golden Lion, Telefunken and whatever. Strangely I have not seen any Chinese Philips tubes yet, but that's probably due to the fact that Philips is still a very strong, internationally operating (Dutch) company, who defends it's legal rights strongly.

When I say "NOS Philips is very good", I can still say they are not the best of the NOS tubes in my Boogie. Philips 6L6 tubes produce 25 watts in A/B class, which is too little for my boogie. If you have an old Tweed Bassman you MUST get these Philips tubes because these tubes are encredible for these amps, yielding big and loud distortion at low volumes. The same with RCA 6L6: probably the best ever 6L6 made, but I find them yielding not enough compression in my Boogie. However, if you have a blackface Twin and you play country, there's no other tube than RCA to go for.

Mathijs

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MTFan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Volume=amplification,and has nothing to do with
> > sound..It is about DB: guitarsound is most
> created
> > by speakers,the guitar,pickups and not the
> least:
> > the guitarplayers skill.
> >
> > Listen to Jeff Beck:You can give him an old
> radio
> > or a brandnew mesaboogie..
> > he will sound almost the same in both
> situations
> > by using the same guitar...He doesn't need some
> > kind of
> > tube to create his sound.Only beginners think
> they
> > can create their sound by chanching
> tubes...It's
> > in the fingers.
>
> aaah, this is something entirely different of
> course. We ALL know that sound is 80% or more in
> the fingers. It doesn't matter what amp and guitar
> people like Beck, Keith Richards, Clapton, Taylor
> or whoever use, they will always sound like
> themselves. There's no arguing about that. Even
> amateurs like myself have a very own sound. I can
> play whatever guitar and amp, and the only
> response from my band mates will be 'sounds good'
> or 'doesn't sound good'. My family thinks it all
> sounds the same.
>
> But that was not my point of course: it's the
> musician that counts, and I am sure that each and
> every guitar player I have mentioned can tell the
> difference between wich amp, speaker, tube,
> strings, guitar, pick and whatever. There's even
> guitarists whom say they can hear the difference
> between a straight or a spiraled guitar chord, and
> between a half-full and a full 9 volt battery in a
> overdrive pedal, which I certainly can't. But
> because most guitarist can hear the difference,
> they all are on a continuous search for (vintage)
> gear. Jeff Beck sounds like beck even if he plays
> a fiddle, but Beck is also quite picky when it
> comes to his amp and guitar.
>
> I can tell the difference in various tubes in my
> amp when I am alone in my music room. When the
> drummer kicks in, I can only tell the difference
> bewteen a good sounding tube and a not so good
> sounding tube. On a recording I can tell most of
> the times the amp and guitar that I'm playing, but
> that blurs after a while. You tend to forget
> sounds, and when I listen to recordings from a
> couple of years back I can only guesstimate what
> amp and guitar I was using.
>
> Mathijs

Well Mathijs, I give it another try:

One of my brothers got an MesaB with 2x 6L6 and 2xEL34 .I myself got a MesaB mark 3 with the 4x el 34 tubes 1972,philips,wich I ripped out of an old London city., .both of us have different tubes in the pre amp.Both amps have exactly the same sound,when I am playing them with my '68 Fender strat,..they have the same speakers though..
We have been experimenting on this for 20 years already.(for fun )
You are talking about more bas or midrange etc,check your equilizer?

As far as bass is concerned its most your powersupply(transformation)
If you change tubes,and meanwhile you open the curtain,sound can change already.

If there is one component in an amplifier,hi-end audio or guitar,that must be exactly the same,no matter the brand...it's tubes.
It must be your imagination.This phenomena is well known amongst studio musicians and audio freaks,(I've met quit a lot,)and is called "wishfull hearing",and it is nothing
to be ashamed off.

But after all,enjoy!

MTFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well Mathijs, I give it another try:
>
> One of my brothers got an MesaB with 2x 6L6 and
> 2xEL34 .I myself got a MesaB mark 3 with the 4x el
> 34 tubes 1972,philips,wich I ripped out of an old
> London city., .both of us have different tubes in
> the pre amp.Both amps have exactly the same
> sound,when I am playing them with my '68 Fender
> strat,..they have the same speakers though..
> We have been experimenting on this for 20 years
> already.(for fun )

I really don't know what to say, as I find it encredible that you can't hear a difference. It's harder to hear a difference between pre-amp tubes: I can hear a distinct difference between NOS and new production, and with the gain on my Boogie way high I can tell the difference between some NOS tubes (in a "that's most probably the Telefunken or Mullard tube" way).

But if you can't hear the difference between tubes, let alone between AMPS -I have never encountered that. I once had two Boogie Mk IIB's, and I sold one because it really didn't sound as good as the other. Even in the rehearsel rooms my band rehearses we always play through dreadful Marshall JCM 2000's, and even with these shit-amps I -and in fact the rest of the band- can hear a difference between the amps.

> As far as bass is concerned its most your
> powersupply(transformation)
> If you change tubes,and meanwhile you open the
> curtain,sound can change already.

I know that, so I also know how to compare tubes. In fact, I had a Fargen Miniplex amp wich I could put in any tube I wanted. I hooked it up to a Jensen V90 speaker, and placed a SM57 right in the middle of the cone -so the least colorization. I recorded about 10 power tubes and 10 pre-amp tubes directly into protools, and boy can you hear a difference between most of them.

> It must be your imagination.This phenomena is well
> known amongst studio musicians and audio
> freaks,(I've met quit a lot,)and is called
> "wishfull hearing",and it is nothing
> to be ashamed off.

Of course, we all encountered that. I have bought so many guitars during the last years that I thought were "the best ever", only to sell them again after a year for whatever reason. But, I have used my Boogie Mk IIB for at least four years now on at least 150 gigs, and I have played around with the power tubes constantly, only to constantly come back to GE tubes. They offer the sound I have in my head (which is Keith in '78), while all others -including the much more expensive and sought after RCA and Telefunken tubes - don't.

> But after all,enjoy!

And that's the only thing that counts!

Mathijs

Hello Mathijs:

>But if you can't hear the difference between tubes, let alone between AMPS -I have never encountered that.

I am talking about 2 simular amps with different tubes..


Only the fact that you name Jeff Beck and Keith Richards in one line
on this subject makes me doubt we ever agree..

One side of this that hasn't been mentioned is tube variability with regard to bias adjustment.
Most 6L6 amps like the Fenders or Boogies are "fixed bias" and are affected by the individual characteristics of the tube set on board. Pairs or sets of the SAME tubes will perform differently if the amp is not re-biased to compensate for the possibly "hotter" or "cooler" measuring tubes.
Some suppliers [Boogie included] grade their tubes so that results are more predictable and so that no re-biasing, [either via a pot or resistor change] is technically required.
Just thought we ought to mention this in the context of this discussion.;^)

FWIW, one tube I've come accross over the last couple of years that really impresses is the Chinese built TAD 6L6WGC. I'd recommend anybody to give that a try if NOS is over budget or too hard to find.
The TAD is a great Rock N Roll tube with a nice "Stonesy" break up. For me it's the next best thing to the Philips 6L6WGB, which is probably the last of the great NOS tubes that's still half avialable and affordable for most folks.
The original RCAs and GEs of this world are now too scarce and expensive to be practical for most of us.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-03 10:58 by Spud.

Spud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One side of this that hasn't been mentioned is
> tube variability with regard to bias adjustment.
> Most 6L6 amps like the Fenders or Boogies are
> "fixed bias" and are affected by the individual
> characteristics of the tube set on board. Pairs
> or sets of the SAME tubes will perform differently
> if the amp is not re-biased to compensate for the
> possibly "hotter" or "cooler" measuring tubes.
> Some suppliers grade their tubes so that results
> are more predictable and so that no re-biasing,
> is technically required.
> Just thought we ought to mention this in the
> context of this discussion.;^)


Absolutely agree here. You can only compare tubes if you properly adjust bias. This is one of the main reasons many amps sound sterile and cold -the bias is set to cold.

> FWIW, one tube I've come accross over the last
> couple of years that really impresses is the
> Chinese built TAD 6L6WGC. I'd recommend anybody to
> give that a try if NOS is over budget or too hard
> to find.
> The TAD is a great Rock N Roll tube with a nice
> "Stonesy" break up. For me it's the next best
> thing to the Philips 6L6WGB, which is probably the
> last of the great NOS tubes that's still half
> avialable and affordable for most folks.
> The original RCAs and GEs of this world are now
> too scarce and expensive to be practical for most
> of us.

Yeah, I have read a lot about them, and I will try them out very soon. They are quite cheap, and come up thumbs up in most reviews.

By the way, the Philips tubes will remain available for some years at relative low cost. And if you look around you will find a pair of GE for not too silly money once in a while.

Mathijs

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My Stones Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hey Mtfan; All vacuum tubes by GE/Phillips are
> > made in China. There are a few off brands that
> are
> > made in Russia. I don't know what this Mathisj
> guy
> > is talking about.
> > Mr Mathijs. Funny how you get caught up in
> you
> > own talk. You say one time to get GE and
> Phillips
> > becasue they are good than in another post you
> say
> > they aren't produced in certian countries
> anymore.
> > YUP they are made in CHINA!!! IT SAYS IT RIGHT
> ON
> > THE TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> (you
> > not gonna start telling me about Martin guitars
> > again are you? I guess you think they were made
> in
> > Holland too
>
> If you don't know what you're talking about then
> please stay out of this discusion.
>
> As is explained already, there's a difference
> between New Old Stock and new production. To this
> day, new production still isn't as good as NOS,
> but they are getting close (I have JJ 6V6 in my
> Tweed Deluxe -sounds almost as good as GE or RCA,
> but are only a fraction of the price, which is
> good for a tube-eating amp). JJ is good, Sevtlana
> is good, Sovtek is decent.
>
> These days some good tubes are produced in Russia
> and in the Czech Republich, which produce tubes
> under their own brand name, as well as for big
> companies like Boogie and Marshall. They also now
> own some old, famous brand names like Mullard and
> Tung Sol, which is now owned by the New Sensor
> Corporation, which is the same parent company as
> Sovtek and the old Electro-Harmonix.
>
> So, some of the NOS names are being produced
> again, but unfortunately are not yet comparable in
> quality.
>
> The biggest producers are in China, but
> unfortunately the China production is terrible
> -there is not ONE good sounding tube that is
> produced in China. Also unfortunately is that the
> Chinese aren't bothered by brand names and
> patents, and they literally print whatever they
> want on the bottle. I have seen Chinese Mullards,
> Tung Sol's, Svetlana's, Golden Lion, Telefunken
> and whatever. Strangely I have not seen any
> Chinese Philips tubes yet, but that's probably due
> to the fact that Philips is still a very strong,
> internationally operating (Dutch) company, who
> defends it's legal rights strongly.
>
> When I say "NOS Philips is very good", I can still
> say they are not the best of the NOS tubes in my
> Boogie. Philips 6L6 tubes produce 25 watts in A/B
> class, which is too little for my boogie. If you
> have an old Tweed Bassman you MUST get these
> Philips tubes because these tubes are encredible
> for these amps, yielding big and loud distortion
> at low volumes. The same with RCA 6L6: probably
> the best ever 6L6 made, but I find them yielding
> not enough compression in my Boogie. However, if
> you have a blackface Twin and you play country,
> there's no other tube than RCA to go for.
>
> Mathijs


I do know what I am talking about. YOU have no idea what you are talking about. Especially with Martin Guitars. I've worked hand in hand with the greatest. Steven Stills, Neil Young, James Taylor. Being a dealer I've sold hundeds and hundreds and I've also played hundreds 0f Martins.
If you don't know anything about guitars please don't post. By the way you can't tell one tube from another. I'm not a fool.

And why do you always contridict yourself? You say that you can 'know the tubes' blindfolded in one post and then in the next you say you only know your own! You always seem to say one thing and mean another! And what the heck? With a guy with your vast knowledge and expertise, you should be famous internationally by now! But who are you????? Just a poster like the rest of us!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-04 01:49 by My Stones.

Hello My Stones:

Don't bother.
Specs are specs to me .


"Never argue with a fool,others might not hear the difference or he beats you
on experience"

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mathijs Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > And, placed in my own Boogie, I
> > > can pick out each and every of these
> > manufacturers
> > > blindfolded.
> >
> >
> > If you can really do that, you're not a music
> fan.
> > You're a superhero.
>
> No, you just have to know what to look for: RCA
> has (whem used in my Boogie)deep bass, shimering
> highs but not so much compression, GE has a little
> less bass but much more compression, Philips sound
> squashed with grainy midrange, and Svetlana sounds
> very upfront, with too much presence. I prefer GE
> in my amp.
>
> I have tried all these brands, and if you know
> your own amp well it's easy to tell the
> difference. I probably will not be able to tell
> the difference that easy in another amp,
> especially not with Marshall amps.
>
> Mathijs


My amp is so small it could fit under my nuts (Then I could work as a foley artist in porn movies). I never had any idea what to look for in an amp. When I buy a new one at some point, I'll probably have to consult you..... :-)

JumpingKentFlash