1..HE SOUNDS BETTER THAN EVER...

I can see griping about the drum sound on UNDERCOVER and DIRTY WORK (much of which isn't Charlie or was fashionably over-produced). Faulting his playing on SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE, and TATTOO YOU is beyond me. Likewise STEEL WHEELS found Charlie in fine form and VOODOO LOUNGE and BRIDGES TO BABYLON see Mr. Watts often playing brilliantly. I particularly love the production on those two discs and "Continental Drift" on STEEL WHEELS. Admittedly, I'm less enamored of Charlie's playing on A BIGGER BANG, but that has more to do with my disdain for the sound of the album and, in some cases, the songs themselves. As a live act, I often hear shows or watch DVD's where I feel Charlie is going through the motions as much as Keith and Ron are posing while Chuck overcompensates with keyboards. When I've actually attended shows from 1989 on, I always feel the sense of excitement and excellence of the band's playing just never translates to recordings the way it is experienced in person. That makes the latter a tougher call. As it stands, I don't think Charlie has lost his chops over the years. No, I may not get goose pimples the way I do on the studio recording of "Tumbling Dice," but I hear plenty of latterday Stones that make me realize what would be lost if we didn't have Mr. Watts on the drum kit.

great post rocky!

*everybody need a little help sometime!*

Sometimes I feel people are here just to preach for the Stones instead of just discuss what they do. Some people feel they`re not `true fans` when they criticize the band. Don`t worry: we`re all here because we love them.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Long John Stoner Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I haven't liked the way the drums have sounded
> > since Some Girls, to be brutally honest. Not
> every
> > song on Some Girls or every song since Some
> Girls,
> > but that's when I noticed the decline in
> quality.
> > For the lack of a better description, they
> sound
> > all trebly to me, no bass or bottom to them.
> > Whatever happened to the Sticky Fingers sound?
> You
> > can take the drum parts from any number of
> songs
> > and interchange them and no one would know. The
> > drum parts on Flip the Switch, for example,
> could
> > be from Hang Fire. I hated and actually still
> hate
> > the drums from Neighbors. You Got Me Rocking,
> on
> > the other hand, has a drum sound I like. But
> those
> > moments are few and far between anymore.
>
>
> You dont like the drum sound on Tattoo You? Christ
> - I think thats the best SOUND on any Stones album
> ever - and especially the drums ("Slave" being the
> standout example), although I can understand you
> not liking the drum sound on 'Neighbours', even if
> I like it personally.
>
> I liked the sound on ABB too - especially It Wont
> Take Long and Dangerous Beauty. On the latter, it
> absolutely SNARLS. Great stuff.



I didn't say that. I said "I haven't liked the way the drums have sounded
since Some Girls, to be brutally honest. Not
every song on Some Girls or every song since Some
Girls..."

I realise that..I'm just surprised that you think its declined overall that badly as early as that - when "Tattoo You" (to my ears) sounds so good.

On ABB the drums are very good, Charlie saved some of the 2007 shows as the guitarists were not reliable this year. Charlie's playing has become a little softer in the last 15 years, but he swings like hell, especially on a bigger bang. In fact Jagger and Watts are in very good shape, the Stones' problem are Richards and Wood! I admire these guitarists, but we all know that they put up some horrible shows in Euorope this year.

I thought they brought a trash can in for Charlie to bang on for Neighbors. Nothing more irritating then the neighbor banging on a trash can.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I realise that..I'm just surprised that you think
> its declined overall that badly as early as that -
> when "Tattoo You" (to my ears) sounds so good.


Yeah, but if memory serves, Tattoo You was a conglomeration of previously recorded songs, most before Some Girls, with touch up work done here and there to get an album together.

The question is ridiculous. Charlie is firing at 100%, 100% of the time.

Lukester Wrote:
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> ....regarding #5, above, the other night I found
> what I think might have been some of Charlie's
> lost groove. Well, I'm not sure it was Charlie's
> but it was lost. Come to think of it it wasn't
> even a groove......oh well, nevermind.


Maybe it was Stella's Groove? If so, you should give it back to her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-19 04:14 by ryanpow.

hey he can only play what the so called glimmer twins serve up to him, its mick n keiths bed they have to make it

There are many sets of ears in the studio when recordings are made. You check your ego at the door if you are a pro. Charlie is a pro. If someone doesn't like what he is playing it will be discussed and worked out to the satisfaction of the team. That's where hits are made. Go Charlie Go!!!!

<Charlie's playing has become a little softer in the last 15 years, but he swings like hell>

Has Charlie's playing on ABB really become softer? I don't think so. IMO he's louder than ever. Both in the mix and in his punches.

Listen to the first album - Route 66, Carol etc. Tell me what the difference is between the drumming then and now...?

I hear basic back-beat drumming - that is Charlies trade mark. Its what he's always done and what he does best. The fills over the years have changed I agree and the lift off the hihat - but little else.

As for the drum sound - it's a contempary drum sound, but quite natural with little effect. All sounds good to me and nothing to worry about or cast blame for.

Yeah, Turd but that is the difference!

The fills and his hi-hat work has changed! And that was the best and most special from him! Just listen to YaYa's and his 70's stuff.
The rest is mostly straight back-beat.

And the "sound" doesn't really come from Charlie. Engineers work on that!

CousinC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Live he's now just playin straight on without
> imagination and all those little tricks and breaks
> from the original records.


Well, his live playing is completely different since 1981. Since then they have gotten into specific click track tempos/BPMs.

And those tempos are usually a bit slow for my tastes. Common example:

Let's Spend The Night Together - I could slip out and have a few pints with me mates by the time they finish _that_ intro. these days. They've turned it into a bloody ballad!

J

Long John Stoner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I realise that..I'm just surprised that you
> think
> > its declined overall that badly as early as that
> -
> > when "Tattoo You" (to my ears) sounds so good.
>
>
> Yeah, but if memory serves, Tattoo You was a
> conglomeration of previously recorded songs, most
> before Some Girls, with touch up work done here
> and there to get an album together.



Not quite. Most of the recordings date from 1977-80.

From wikipedia, for what that's worth-

"Tattoo You is primarily composed of outtakes, some dating back a decade, with new vocals and overdubs. Along with two new songs, the Rolling Stones put together this collection in order to have a new album to promote for their worldwide American Tour 1981/European Tour 1982 beginning that September:

"Tops" and "Waiting on a Friend" were cut in late 1972 during the Goats Head Soup sessions (thus featuring Mick Taylor, not Ron Wood, on guitar; Taylor later demanded and received a share of the album's royalties).
"Slave" and "Worried About You" were recorded in 1975 during the Black and Blue sessions in Rotterdam. They feature Billy Preston on keyboards and Ollie Brown on percussion. Wayne Perkins plays the lead guitar on "Worried About You".
"Start Me Up" was originally written and recorded in 1977, during the Some Girls sessions in Paris, as a reggae number called "Never Stop", but was left unreleased at the time because Keith Richards had expressed concern that he might have inadvertently taken its main riff from another song he had heard (something that was later to happen with "Anybody Seen My Baby" on Bridges to Babylon).
"Hang Fire", "Little T&A", "Black Limousine", and "No Use In Crying" all came from the Emotional Rescue sessions in 1979.
"Neighbours" and "Heaven" were the only new recordings (from April to June 1981), although the band began a version of "Neighbours" during work on Emotional Rescue.
"Heaven" has an unusual lineup, consisting of only Charlie Watts on drums, Bill Wyman on synthesizer and bass, Mick Jagger on guitar, and producer Chris Kimsey on piano. Some sources also claim that Wyman plays guitar on the track.
Some of the older tracks were overdubbed and mixed during the 1979 Emotional Rescue sessions or in 1981 as Tattoo You was being compiled."

If this is accurate, about half were pre-Some Girls, some during Some Girls, some after.

Charlie both plays and sounds better than ever! Love the overall drumsound on VL, B2B and ABB. Thunderous and crispy at the same time! You can really feel Charlies touch!

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