I Wish I Never Met You Wrote:
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> LA baseball fans are front running clowns. Even
> when they are good they show up late and leave
> early.

Yeah, I went to the Red Sox @ Anaheim series last August for 3 games. My wife and I got there 2 hours before each game to enjoy the baseball park atmosphere (no smog those days) and watch warm-ups. We had decent seats, RF box near the field. Each game was a "sell-out" as per the signs at the front gates and box office. However when each game started there were many empty sections and rows.
By the 4th inning the stadium was full each game. Then by the 7th inning the statdium was emptying out each night. The good thing about it was that my wife and I, and thousands of other Red Sox fans migrated down to the empty infield box seats right close to the action, and it was great.

Contrast to Fenway where you're lucky to get a ticket, and that's your seat the entire game as the park is full 30 minutes before each game and remains full until the last out. The exception being if the Sox are down 5 or more runs in the final innings which happens on occasion.

So in conclusion, by reviewing the stats combined with observations, LA Dodgers and Angels have large capacity stadiums, sell alot of tickets, but the majority of fans don't stay for 9 innings a game.

The shame of it all........

NumberOneStonesFan Wrote:
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> ok, my apologies...the dodgers draw far more than
> it appears on TV as they operate at an 85% average
> capacity. Do Dodger fans show up in the third
> inning and leave after the 6th inning like the
> fans do at Angels stadium? That might explain the
> empty looking park despite the high ticket sales.
> Did you see where Fenway/Boston Red Sox avgs 101%
> attendance avg? Fenway is a small park so it's
> very difficult to get a ticket at face value.


Well after seeing the Stones at Dodger Stadium last year,I can understand why people show up late and leave early. The place is impossible to get in and out of. Sat in a massive traffic jam getting there. Then left early during the encore to beat the traffic. Plus as a big Giants fan,it was tough just walk in there,even for a concert. I don't see what all the hoopla is,about Dodger Stadium. Didn't seem like anything special to me.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

Oh, the drama. Waling and gnashing of teeth. Get over it. Baseball has survived past scandals, and will do so again. I love the game, and its illustrious history.

I nearly lost it when we had the strike in 1994, but that was the same year that Ken Burns' "Baseball" documentary was aired. It couldn't have been more timely.

We live in such an odd time, when every ill can be cured or masked by a pill. Who here can claim themselves to be 100% drug free?

To voodoolounge13, in particular, I recall that Pirate pitcher Dock Ellis once pitched a game while high on acid. Don't lose it for the Rocket, man. He's a product of our society, and no one is innocent. He's a human being, not some freakin statue.

The game is bigger than any particular player. Yeah, an idol might disappoint you, but if you love baseball, you won't give up on it.

There isn't a human being who ever lived who hasn't done something wrong. I know what this means to you, but this idol of yours deserves your forgiveness.

about bagwell and ortiz and pujols and tons of other players,,,,remember mitchell basically had only TWO sources, one from the mets cloubhouse and another from the blue jays/yankees clubhouse. he didn't get balco guys and many others, which would undoubtedly name many many more players. pujols however, said "you can test me any day." i dont know why, but somehow i trust him

Well now that Andy Petitte has come out and admitted to using HGh. Maybe his best buddy Roger will admit what everybody else always suspected. He was jucied as well.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

NumberOneStonesFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok, my apologies...the dodgers draw far more than
> it appears on TV as they operate at an 85% average
> capacity. Do Dodger fans show up in the third
> inning and leave after the 6th inning like the
> fans do at Angels stadium? That might explain the
> empty looking park despite the high ticket sales.
> Did you see where Fenway/Boston Red Sox avgs 101%
> attendance avg? Fenway is a small park so it's
> very difficult to get a ticket at face value.

____ it stands out to me also stonesfan, while viewing on television, the many vacant seats in the various sections of dodger stadium are soo noticeable ,, the visual does conflict with the numbers,,, its a beautiful park to attend, and getting up close to the game is not a problem...

Clemens had a nickname around Boston when he was here: The Texas Con Man.

Everyone criticized the inept Dan Duquette who said Clemens was in 'the twilight of his career' when they didn't resign him.

Actually, they didn't laugh until Clemens started winning Cy Young's again in Toronto (the place he went after he said he wanted to 'go home to Texas') and New York.

And the reason they didn't laugh until then is because Clemens had stopped winning Cy Young awards here because he was out of shape and doing ridiculous things like injuring himself moving his own furniture in the offseason, costing him many starts. True enough his stats weren't as good because he was 'backed' by crappy teams in turmoil. But just as significant was that The Rocket simply didn't care enough to keep in shape then. And there were plenty of people happy to see him go, and not have the team cave to his salary demands, because if he continued on the same trajectory, he would have looked like Terry Forester in 3 years.

His 'amazing workout' routine was nowhere to be seen in his final years in Boston.

Then Clemens had age-defying season after season, he was committed to showing up all those that lost faith in him, Until his fradulent retirement from the Yankees (remember they asked for the Hummer back?) so he could bedazzle his 'hometown' crowd and watch his kids play.

And when the Astros fell short, he sought to return to New York who were stupid enough to pay him that much money in hopes that he would make up for their horrendous free-agent signings and aging pitching staff. Funny how he seemed to break down these last couple of years since the real testing started. But that was because of age.....obviously.

Sure he was old, but just give him a few extra weeks to 'get in shape' and be the savior (I thought he had some outrageous workout routine??). Not that his extra time could be used to clear his bloodstream of anything.

And now with a paper trail the leads to the feds front door, and a trainer with the goods on him, the once proud, always got something to say Roger Clemens goes mum when asked to defend himself before the report gets published, and has a country lawyer speak for him denying that same paper trail.

So tell me, how many innocent people would let someone level a charge of breaking federal laws against them, charges that would tarnish their image forever, that would remain silent on it?

Read Canseco's book. Steroids and other 'performance enhancing' drugs don't just make you big and 'muscle-bound' like Bonds and McGwire. They can also make you recover from workouts and injuries faster. They can make your shoulder feel brand new a day or two after pitching 9 long innings. They can help you heal faster. And they can increase your muscle twitch and reflexes so you react faster.

Clemens has been true to only two things: himself and his own glory.
His ego is the only thing bigger than Texas and someone just cut him off at the knees.

J

looks good on roger....could not stand him when he was a blue jay...if he thinks he so innocent, let him sue....

The value of my baseball card collection is plummeting faster than Enron stock did a few years ago. First Griffey (who was expected to break the record of Aaron) suffers injury after injury, then Bonds and his antics, now Clemens. I have a lot of rookie cards of all those players. I'm not doubting his guilt but they should go into more details about how they know these players used the stuff instead of just coming out with a list and making it look like the Salem witch trials where you are guilty if you are named by someone looking to save their own hide.

Tbe investigation was New York centric that is why there are no Red Sox on the list as I'm sure there have been players from just about every team that have used either steroids or human growth hormone.

To me Clemens was not as obvious as Barroid. Barroid was better in his late thirties than he was in his prime. Clemens was not. He really only had one great year with The Yankees (2001). The other years were subpar or merely good. Then he did have some astonishing years with The Astros but it was against the weak National League hitters so I guess it was less obvious than it was with Bonds.

BTW I'm glad all this stuff came to light but Canseco in my book is nothing but a rat. He was probably the biggest user and then he finked on a lot of people a few years ago just to sell books. Piece of crap in my book.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-17 06:04 by FrankM.

canseco was right all along, go figure

I wouldn't be surprised if ol' Rog was juicing long before Toronto & NY. Any Sox fans here remember just how badly he sucked (relatively speaking) during the dark ages of Butch Hobson & the crappy early '90s teams? He was overweight and constantly on the DL with pulled hamstrings and the like. Fast forward to 1996 - it's a contract year and, half way through the season, Roger decides to get his sh*t together. He went on the DL that August and came back like it was the late '80s all over again. Won a bunch of games, struck out 20 Tigers that September, and then famously packed up his locker the last week of the season when the Sox were still in contention for a Wild Card berth.

Two points - I think Roger juiced himself up something fierce during that August trip to the DL. It's not like there weren't 'roidheads on the team at that point - I mean, CANSECO was a Sox at that point, not to mention Greenwell and John "I doubled in size during the '94 strike" Valentin (as well as Big Mo, who was named in the Mitchell report)... but I dunno - either Roger juiced or, and I think this is equally offensive, decided to actually get in shape and apply himself for the benefit of his own upcoming free agency after coasting the previous few years when he was either the best payed player or pitcher in the game (I forget which).

Though I will say, in his defense, that he had some awful teams behind him in the early '90s. Anyone remember two-time all-star Scott Cooper? Quintana? Rob Deer? Good God, some of those Sox teams were bone-chillingly bad.

As for Big Papi, I don't think he's juicing. And I'm not being naive - it's obvious in hindsight that Nomar had more of that crap flowing through is veins than Keith had smack in '74 (STONES CONTENT - YAY!), don't even get me started on Trot Nixon, and I'm betting Pedro may have taken some funny vitamins in '04 to help strengthen his shoulder. But Ortiz was stuck in small-ball purgatory in Minnesota - the dude is a pure power hitter and the Tom Kelly Twinkies were trying to get him to advance runners with ground balls. He gets released, signs with the Sox, and gets the green light to finally swing away, which played into his strengths (i.e. hitting very long home runs at very opportune moments, God love him).

Anyway, getting back to Roger... though he may be a charmless mercenary prick, he's also probably the greatest pitcher of the last 50 years (if not ever) and if he was juicing, so what? So were probably 80% of the batters he was facing. Chalk it all up to the "Steroid Era" and move on. No bannings from the Hall Of Fame, no asterisks... enough self-righteous crap. Just move on.

Here's a scary thought:
Nolan Ryan on steroids.

Can you imagine?

He'd still be pitching.

just goes to show how talented kofax and aaron really were, among other non steroid users

NumberOneStonesFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a scary thought:
> Nolan Ryan on steroids.
>
> Can you imagine?
>
> He'd still be pitching.

I was thinking about this same thing the day the report was released.

Hell, what about Cy Young or Walter Johnson? They'd each be starting 75 games a year!

Speaking of ageless, I just picked up the Cincy Reds '75 DVD box set. Yeah, the ending sucked, but I can't wait to watch El Tiante toss 155 pitches in Game 4 when he was "35" years old!

... good to see some baseball observers here,,,, ,,, boy, in this age, each individuals performance is so graph'd out, its easy to draw up realistic, undieable conclusions,,, i'd comment more, but the curve ball aint breakin' and the fastball is being hit..... but can i remind, it aint just steriods or human growthers, but amphetamines and synthetic opiates are prevailent as well ... sweep up the dugout floor and shake up in the quisenart blender, then get back to us........

JuanTCB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Speaking of ageless, I just picked up the Cincy
> Reds '75 DVD box set. Yeah, the ending sucked,
> but I can't wait to watch El Tiante toss 155
> pitches in Game 4 when he was "35" years old!


It's great. I'm currently in Game 5 of it.

Talk about a different game!

J

soundcheck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> but can i remind, it aint just steriods
> or human growthers, but amphetamines and synthetic
> opiates are prevailent as well ... sweep up the
> dugout floor and shake up in the quisenart
> blender, then get back to us........


They banned amphetamines the year after steroids. That's why Johnny Damon has become a platooning 4th outfielder/substitute DH these days.

J

Well Clemens is still saying he didn't take any steroids. Apparently denial ain't just a river in Egypt for Roger.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-19 06:51 by sweetcharmedlife.

yeah ok roger didnt do it, just like bonds didnt do it, lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-19 05:21 by melillo.

There is a great picture of Carl Yaztremski sitting in the lockerroom during the 75' season with a cigarette in one hand and a Coors in the other...no HGH there and one of the purest players ever... Tate is correct, take a ride to Pawtucket and on a nice warm August night there is no place like McCoy stadium and a good game...The game in slightly tarnished but will bounce back like it always does...Perhaps now teams won't be throwing useless money at Clemens to play for ten minutes....

jeff14 Wrote:
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>..Perhaps now teams won't be throwing
> useless money at Clemens to play for ten
> minutes....


And poorly at that.

J

JuanTCB Wrote:
> Anyway, getting back to Roger... though he may be
> a charmless mercenary prick, he's also probably
> the greatest pitcher of the last 50 years (if not
> ever) and if he was juicing, so what? So were
> probably 80% of the batters he was facing. Chalk
> it all up to the "Steroid Era" and move on. No
> bannings from the Hall Of Fame, no asterisks...
> enough self-righteous crap. Just move on.


I agree with Juan, let's just all move on.....fvck the asterisks.


.....oh, and Big Papi is just naturaly big and yes, FrankM, Canseco is a freakin' rat.