mofur, i can't believe it!! Just saw "World Top 50 Albums", as you!!!

You say: "and if one cares to look back - Stones sold 608.700 in their second week. I don't know what happened to that first week - they only sold 72.300. Must be something to do with what day they count the numbers??"
If i remember correctly, georgelicks said that 72.300 copies had been counted a bit earlier, in Japan. Actually, ABB first week's sales number was 681.000, especially when we draw comparisons between ABB and other albums that, by contrast with ABB, hadn't a "prologue-first week". Bruce (first week 566.000 copies), Foo Fighters (477.400) and ALL the acts i mention in this post had directly "full" first weeks.

So let's see various artists from various kinds of music these days...


BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN: As mofur estimated, 1.406.600 copies sold during five weeks. ABB after five weeks: 1.711.900. I'm sure huge majority of the fans in this site had the impression that Bruce's new album does sell ...two times better than ABB. You know, also many fans here thought that Stones are selling lower than "Macca" worlwide! With all this moaning...

EAGLES: First week, 998.700. Monster sales, indeed. I saw somewhere that in USA they sold 700.000, so in the rest of the planet they sold almost 300.000. Very good number.

FOO FIGHTERS: after six weeks, 1.094.000. ABB: 1.871.500.

KID ROCK: after four weeks, 373.900. ABB: 1.581.700.

JAMES BLUNT (yes, the guy who had so huge success two -three years ago): after seven weeks, 1.530.500. ABB: 1.871.500.

MATCHBOX -20 (if i remember correctly their album from 1997 sold better than B2:
after five weeks, 439.700. ABB: 1.711.900

BACKSTREET BOYS (do you remεber them?): after two weeks, 316.200. ABB week:
1.112.200.

50 CENT (one of the most famous and popular rapers): after nine weeks 1.808.000. ABB: 1.927.400.

JENIFER LOPEZ: after three weeks, 203.600. ABB: 1.395.600

ROBERT PLANT & ALISON KRAUS: after two weeks, 279.100 (!). ΑΒΒ: 1.112.000.

Also, i see on "World Top 50 Albums" some such poor sales that i really wonder whether some cases are refering to DVD's, not to CD's (any information about it would be welcome)...

Santana ("Ultimate Santana"): after three weeks, 220.000
Eric Clapton ("Complete"): after four weeks, 309.000
Neil Young:after two weeks, 160.000
PJ Harvey: after two weeks, 74.000
Van Morrison: after two weeks 76.400

The following acts remained just one week on Top 50: Stereophonics (55.700), Hives
(31.600), M. Etheridge (51.700).

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the level of the album sales today. If you think ABB sold poorly worldwide, you live in a fantasy land. Or just in the past. Since ABB came out, i was looking often at "World Top 50 Albums" chart. Same conclusion. How many rock bands and rock artists do sell more than 2.600.000 today? What do you think? Nickelback, Linkin Park, Green Day (as for an album, atleast), U2, maybe Killers and a few others. I repeat, the Stones never had been "monster" as album sellers. But they are stable enough.

Some folks are judging from US market, as if USA was the whole planet. US market today would be an interesting topic, indeed. By the way, is it me or non- Americans rarely dominate Billboard anymore? Just a question.

Theif in the Night Wrote:
> The new songs are not as good as some older
> songs but,they are better than other older
> songs.It depends on which songs you are talking
> about.It's ridiculous to say that all newer songs
> are worse than any/all older songs.


No one would argue that Jagger/Richards isn't a great song writing team, or that they aren't capable of writing an amazing song. That would be ridiculous.

However, collectively (i.e. assembled or accumulated into a whole) the newer songs/material don't add up, and anyway you slice it, dice it or spin it the sales have not added up in this....THE mega huge era of international and instantaneous P.R. which the Rolling Stones basically own.

I think I'll go buy a Stones album tomorrow just for the heck of it and prove that someone (me) will still buy a Stones album... I have them all but my Satanic Majesties Request copy is a bit worn so I'll go ahead and replace it.

Interesting numbers Sticky. Although all the bands we have been talking about in this thread are popular worldwide it seems like The Eagles and Springsteen have the sales demographics The Stones used to have where at least half of their sales are in the US.

Because everybody got the albums already !!!!!!

Talk about over analyzing and missing the obvious. I grew up listening to the Stones and have never missed a new release since Sticky Fingers, always excited about getting the new album, and at 49 years old I still get a charge out of going to buy the "new" album but here is my take. The complete overexposure and availability of almost anything on dvd, etc. has taken away the anticipation completely, now even for me it's going that way. I remember unless you managed to catch them on Ed Sullivan, you just didn't see them and this gave the mystery/love/ affection thing much more.......why is Led Zep so big now? Because you never see or hear anything about them so people are hungry. The Eagles, well, the fans are American mostly as is the band and the easy listening retro thing they do is easy to swallow. But..most of all.....the old classics are very hard to live up to, how do you come out with something anymore that beats Let it Bleed, Exile or Some Girls? My fave period 78 when they were last really cool to me.....I could go on but the Stones have given so much and the well is getting dry......ABB is pure nonsense..IMO.
I tried very hard to get into it, it just sucks, and makes me sad they didn't realize it. Hang it up guys and go out with some respect..

"Hang it up guys and go out with some respect."

If you don't like ABB that's your problem. It was well received by both critics and fans and outsold the latest releases by Macca, Springsteen and Dylan but yeah I guess they should hang it up because the great Forligan says so.

Why don't you hang it up before you embarrass yourself with another ridiculous post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-17 02:35 by FrankM.

FrankM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Hang it up guys and go out with some respect."
>
> If you don't like ABB that's your problem. It was
> well received by both critics and fans and outsold
> the latest releases by Macca, Springsteen and
> Dylan but yeah I guess they should hang it up
> because the great Forligan says so.
>
> Why don't you hang it up before you embarrass
> yourself with another ridiculous post.

C'mon, after the immediate thrill of a new Stones release, ABB was treated with mixed emotions here. And as far as the critics go, for them is always 'the best since Exile'. And the Stones should always out-sell the names you mentioned, even half-sleep...

There was nothing ridiculous in Forligan's post. Quite Contrary, well-based thoughts and opinions I would say.

- Doxa

thank you Doxa

Doxa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FrankM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Hang it up guys and go out with some respect."
> >
> > If you don't like ABB that's your problem. It
> was
> > well received by both critics and fans and
> outsold
> > the latest releases by Macca, Springsteen and
> > Dylan but yeah I guess they should hang it up
> > because the great Forligan says so.
> >
> > Why don't you hang it up before you embarrass
> > yourself with another ridiculous post.
>
> C'mon, after the immediate thrill of a new Stones
> release, ABB was treated with mixed emotions here.


Well then maybe too many people have unreal expectations and hold The Stones to their earlier masterpieces. They won't reach that level again so maybe some people need to get out of 1972.


> And as far as the critics go, for them is always
> 'the best since Exile'. And the Stones should
> always out-sell the names you mentioned, even
> half-sleep...


Really? The critics always say it's the best since Exile? What planet have you been living on? Then how come SW and BTB were given a three star rating by AMG and VL got three and a half stars. Those are Exile level reviews? Methinks you are full of boloney. And they do outsell the other artists I mentioned ninety percent of the time except maybe Springsteen who sometimes outsells The Stones.


> There was nothing ridiculous in Forligan's post.
> Quite Contrary, well-based thoughts and opinions I
> would say.
>
> - Doxa


Well he and you are entitled to your opinion but I am entitled to mine which states that anyone that thinks ABB sucked is darn near of their rocker. I'm not saying people have to think it was a great album but to say it sucked is just ludicrous and speaks of people longing for the good old days of bell bottoms and giant Lincoln Continentals. Get into the modern age peeps.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-17 05:53 by FrankM.

The original point of this thread was about subpar album sales by The Stones and if anyone wants to see the truth and stop living in fantasyland they can read the post by Stickydion and see that they are still selling well.

Obvioulsy some people don't want to see the truth and would rather whine and complain about poor album sales.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-17 05:56 by FrankM.

Perhaps if the Stones start covering & releasing Beatles songs on their albums then perhaps their sales will pick up again?

Exile wasn't received with open arms by the critics in "the day".

J.J.Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exile wasn't received with open arms by the
> critics in "the day".

True, neither was Dirty Work...

There's one thing that has always struck me these recent years. When the band plays new songs, Keith is simultaneously rushing back to the rear, to the noticeable exception of Rough Justice. And from this position he seems to get profoundly annoyed and,even worse, not involved like mumbling : hummm, this ain't Stones music. I drew the conclusion that The Stones will never be able to produce an international # 1 song anymore but will keep rollin'on with Start Me Up as their ultimate and definitive standard, a combination of simple Keith choruses.

phd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's one thing that has always struck me these
> recent years. When the band plays new songs, Keith
> is simultaneously rushing back to the rear, to the
> noticeable exception of Rough Justice. And from
> this position he seems to get profoundly annoyed
> and,even worse, not involved like mumbling :
> hummm, this ain't Stones music.

well it was just your imagination running away with you

phd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's one thing that has always struck me these
> recent years. When the band plays new songs, Keith
> is simultaneously rushing back to the rear, to the
> noticeable exception of Rough Justice.

Except for This Place is Empty...he likes that one too...

NumberOneStonesFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps if the Stones start covering & releasing
> Beatles songs on their albums then perhaps their
> sales will pick up again?


LOL...love it. Yeah just like they did when they were starting out!

Yes, and so is the circle of life....

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NumberOneStonesFan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps if the Stones start covering &
> releasing
> > Beatles songs on their albums then perhaps
> their
> > sales will pick up again?
>
>
> LOL...love it. Yeah just like they did when they
> were starting out!


Yeah.... perhaps someone could say to Paul McCartney that there is a nice 'little' band touring around the world regularly... go and check them, and if he likes them, could he do a kind of favor to boost their recording career.. give them a nice song or something...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-19 09:46 by Doxa.

But what has happened to "World Top 50 Albums"??? It has not been updated since the week 29.10.2007 - 04.11.2007.

Just kinda curious to see how the Eagles were getting on after the initial week.

Thy are producing garbage ,maybe a handfull of good songs after"Black&Blue...

Yeah, but it's a big old hand IMHO

Put it into perspective the 'Stones' creative peak song writing wise was from 1964 - 1978 yet they did not have any serious money due to their tax problems in the UK in 1970 which took 7 years to resolve.
By 1979/ 1980 they discovered that they could make loads of money by playing largescale concerts worldwide and there was no need to bother seriously about song writing especially as their back catalogue of great songs was enormous.
Obviously there are still some chesnuts on ER,Tattoo You,DW,SW,Voodoo Lounge and BTB but their creative juices have mainly dried up and the real stomping songs are few and far between.
Yet people on this board are surprised because their latest album ABB only sold 2.5m copies worldwide.
Crikey they are all over 60 years old and their fanbase is still buying 2.5m copies of their new material which is a fantastic achievement for the 'Stones' whose lifespan is now 45 years in the rock and roll world in both live concert and the recording business.

stones40 Wrote:
> Yet people on this board are surprised because
> their latest album ABB only sold 2.5m copies
> worldwide.

Don't know if you have actually read the thread? The general conclusion to all but the deaf and blind is that 2.5 millions is no small deal in the record business today.

As of your comments about the Stones recorded output since 1978 - well, everybody's entitled to his opinions, just don't present them as facts. IMHO some of the Stones' greatest songs have been made after 1978 and the last one is a masterpiece.

mofur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't know if you have actually read the thread?

Trade mark of Mofur

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mofur Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Don't know if you have actually read the
> thread?
>
> Trade mark of Mofur


I'm not sure what you mean?

Compared to what other people write about each other on this board, my remark is hardly offensive?

And reading his comment I think it is valid to speculate whether he had read the whole thread or just the headline? If he had read the thread he would have seen the comparisons to sales of other artists and - hopefully - concluded that 2.5 millions sold by a group of Stones' stature is no mean feat in the prevailing market.

Mofur - Yes i read the thread from start to finish and am not deaf and blind.
We all have different tastes and opinions which should be respected and perhaps you mis-interpreted the different contents of my post.
One thing is for sure is that the 'Stones' song writing creativity nose dived from 1979 onwards versus their output from 1964-1978 and that is a hard fact of life.
This is not critising the skinny english cats as the quality of the songs they wrote and recorded over a 15 year period could never be surpassed.
Yes 2.5m sales ABB is still pretty good but with 4,680,000 fans attending
Bigger Bang world tour concerts the conclusion must be that they are paying to hear the 'Stones' play songs from the great songwriting era (1964-1978) as they are certainly not particularly interested in buying ABB CD.
With all the promotiom/advertising that ABB had from the world tour /free concert in Rio the overall sales figure is considerably poor but the main missing ingredient was a really good song released as a single that would have appealed to the masses.
The 'Stones' during the course of ABB Tour seemed to support this by reducing the ABB songs played at a concert from 4 in the beginning to just two and even one which confirmed that they thought in view with public opinion that the collection of songs on the album was below par.

stones40 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mofur - Yes i read the thread from start to finish
> and am not deaf and blind.
> We all have different tastes and opinions
> which should be respected and perhaps you
> mis-interpreted the different contents of my
> post.
> One thing is for sure is that the 'Stones'
> song writing creativity nose dived from 1979
> onwards versus their output from 1964-1978 and
> that is a hard fact of life.


This is your opinion not a fact. Certainly their songwriting was better earlier in their career but I don't see it as "nosediving" as you put it. I see their later stuff as good but not as good as their earlier stuff which is the case with just about every other artist.


> This is not critising the skinny english
> cats as the quality of the songs they wrote and
> recorded over a 15 year period could never be
> surpassed.
> Yes 2.5m sales ABB is still pretty good
> but with 4,680,000 fans attending
> Bigger Bang world tour concerts the conclusion
> must be that they are paying to hear the 'Stones'
> play songs from the great songwriting era
> (1964-1978) as they are certainly not particularly
> interested in buying ABB CD.
> With all the promotiom/advertising that
> ABB had from the world tour /free concert in Rio
> the overall sales figure is considerably poor but
> the main missing ingredient was a really good song
> released as a single that would have appealed to
> the masses.
> The 'Stones' during the course of ABB
> Tour seemed to support this by reducing the ABB
> songs played at a concert from 4 in the beginning
> to just two and even one which confirmed that they
> thought in view with public opinion that the
> collection of songs on the album was below par.

2.5 million albums is good no matter how you try to slice/dice/spin it. Yes they should have played more ABB songs on tour but all the promotion in the world wouldn't change the fact that they have been around for forty five years and their album sales to a large degree are a normal decline for a band that has been around that long.

Where is this public opinion view that the songs are subpar? From what I see the majority of fans and critics like ABB so where is this public opinion you are talking about?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-23 23:25 by FrankM.

stones40 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> We all have different tastes and opinions
> which should be respected.
> One thing is for sure is that the 'Stones'
> song writing creativity nose dived from 1979
> onwards versus their output from 1964-1978 and
> that is a hard fact of life.

I don't believe that qualifies as a fact.Besides,you could break it down further if you want to take a negative point of view - their output from the first few years was mainly covers - the '73 to '76 era may not deserve to be grouped with '78 or '68-'72.Maybe they're just an average band that had a good stretch for a few years and for some reason huge masses of people still pay good money to see them three + decades later.

> Yes 2.5m sales ABB is still pretty good
> but with 4,680,000 fans attending
> Bigger Bang world tour concerts the conclusion
> must be that they are paying to hear the 'Stones'
> play songs from the great songwriting era
> (1964-1978) as they are certainly not particularly
> interested in buying ABB CD.

Well,by those numbers a solid half of the people who attended ABB shows could have bought the ABB album.(It is probably more like a third.)Also,with repeat concert goers,I doubt that it was 4,680,000 different people.Factor in a group of people,for example,who went together and may have only bought one copy between them with one copying it on a CD-R for the others.

> The 'Stones' during the course of ABB
> Tour seemed to support this by reducing the ABB
> songs played at a concert from 4 in the beginning
> to just two and even one which confirmed that they
> thought in view with public opinion that the
> collection of songs on the album was below par.

Exactly how many Let It Bleed songs were played between '69 and '70?
Let It Bleed?No.
You Got The Silver?No.
Monkey Man?No.
You Can't Always Get What You Want?No.
Gimme Shelter?Rarely.