Little Queenie, you and I have discussed primate behavior, treatment,ownership etc. many times. I have been lucky in life to be the steward/guardian throughout my life of several monkeys. Except for very early on I never felt that I "owned" a sinlgle one: by happenstance we co-habitated. I have always been amazed when a "lower primate" defies expectations and definition on of what research institutes such as Yerkes reports as expected species behavior. Nevertheless I am totally against the average household "adopting" such and animal; theses people while well intentioned are generally ill prepared. I lived with a marvelous macague for over 20 years, and if people asked "does she bite, I would always respond, "she has not bitten anyone in over 10 years , but I would hate for you to be the first."They are at heart independant thinking creatures of variable mood and personality that can always surprise.

One of the great problems with legislation has been that there are very few uniform guidelines. In the early 80's , depsite my efforts, several healthy macagues at a university were detroyed after 5 years of being fed special diets, because state law at the time in that location mandated the termination of any animal used is medical expereiments. For Washoe in particular, I am aware of the fact that as she aged, and her particular site in housing seemed to be limited, there was an effort, or at least an inquiry, about having her moved to a tropical reserve with plenty of room on the island of Maui. The state laws were so Byzantine that even for such a distinguished guest, not much beyond an initial inquirey was made.

What is considered acceptable by one state is criminal in the next.

kahoosier - i agree that most people are ill-prepared for a pet monkey - they will destroy most houses then the family looks for a sanctuary to take them (most are full up and zoos don't want ex-pets). plus even having them means you fuel the pet trade - monkeys taken from natural habitats or if born in captivity, at least taking them from their mothers.

but regarding maui, you are confusing washoe with koko the gorilla who lives at the "gorilla foundation" in california - i worked with koko too. her "caregiver" penny patterson started the maui campaign over 10 years ago and is still using it to fundraise (robin williams just made a public service announcement asking for help). robin doesn't realize what idiots they are at the gorilla foundation. they got the land, they even laid the foundation but never took the next step - now the foundation is cracked and is useless. plus the state now wants to take the land for the university. if they had done it right and maybe not bought a huge house and multiple corvettes, it would've been built long ago. however, i think it was doomed from the start. penny and her ex-boyfriend envisioned a partnership with other primatologists but no one will work with her - they'd never be able to run the place - they can't even run the two-bit operation they've got going now (can you tell i had a bad experience with them)? poor koko...

washoe lived in an enriched zoo like environment at central washington university - the "chimpanzee and human communication institute":
[www.cwu.edu]

I don't have much to add to this thread as far as the whole captivity issue but after reading all of your posts LQ I can say with certainty that you are one of the warmest, kindest people I have ever known when it comes to animal rights and I think every animal you have worked with is all the better for it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-21 07:15 by FrankM.

thanks frank! i do try...i just hope i see some improvement before i die...

I stand corrected, it was Koko now that I think about it. Oh OH OH...how strange you know Penny also; this world is too small!I think my "ex-wife" and Penny probabaly spent many dark nights awake with kahunas layng curses on each other and sticking pins into voodoo dolls. Penny hads her place on Maui, Kelly had her place, Rainbow Zoologic, on the Big Island.

interesting...i googled it but couldn't find a web site. penny wouldn't want people to visit koko. even if you worked for the place didn't mean you necessarily got to meet koko. and even if you were her caregiver, as i was, didn't mean that you got to inside her enclosure with her. only celebrities get to do that, like leonard dicaprio and mr. rogers.

Now this is interesting:

[www.abc.net.au]

Monkey's or humans. One way or another the males always pay.LOL

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

Well, if humans evolved from primates,
then it really would be the "world's oldest profession!"

interesting - thanks for posting! in many species, the males have to put on a show of some sort (birds compete with song and dance). however, we women do quite a bit too to get noticed - look at the amount of time many women spend getting ready to go out.

here's a bit about Washoe (and the recently deceased famous parrot, Alex) in the New York Times:

[www.nytimes.com]

I was glad to see this on the news last night:

[www.wwltv.com]

I'm a monkeeeeeeeeeeee!