Black & Blue is just great and I agree that it could have been greater with a couple of more songs. Have great teen memories with this album.

But more important some songs should have been played on the '75 tour. Don't think they did.

leteyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Black & Blue is just great and I agree that it
> could have been greater with a couple of more
> songs. Have great teen memories with this album
> But more important some songs should have been
> played on the '75 tour. Don't think they did.


That's not very common for Rolling Stones; playing songs before they are released. They weren't even sure about which ones to include on the album in June 1975, either. But they did CHerry Oh Baby at 2 MSG concerts.

mrD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh no not you again, has the same feel as it's
> only rock and roll and nobody liked it.


IMO those 2 songs are way different, especially the studio versions

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> That's not very common for Rolling Stones; playing
> songs before they are released. They weren't even
> sure about which ones to include on the album in
> June 1975, either. But they did CHerry Oh Baby at
> 2 MSG concerts.

Didn't know about the MSG,thanks..I think they did played some SF songs before their release.

leteyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't know about the MSG,thanks..I think they did
> played some SF songs before their release.

Yes they did - but that situation differed from 1975/1976, as they had the material in hand, but saved it for their own release - on the future Rolling Stones Records.
In 1975 - they were, to a certain extent, touring behind both GOats Head Soup and It's Only Rock'n Roll - and didn't need to include any "new" material.

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes they did - but that situation differed from
> 1975/1976, as they had the material in hand, but
> saved it for their own release - on the future
> Rolling Stones Records.
> In 1975 - they were, to a certain extent, touring
> behind both GOats Head Soup and It's Only Rock'n
> Roll - and didn't need to include any "new"
> material.

Good points..Thanks for the info Erik

Love the Album. It would be the best album since A Bigger Bang. If Some Girls was released today I would do the same thing I did when it first came out. Never listen to it again.

You don't know what your missing........

as long as we're being historical: they performed LIB and Exile numbers in concert
before those album were released too

meanwhile, i love Black & Blue and if it were released now, i'm 100% sure
it would elicit cries of outrage over the nonStones featured on it,
just like it did at the time

leteyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Black & Blue is just great and I agree that it
> could have been greater with a couple of more
> songs. Have great teen memories with this album.
>
> But more important some songs should have been
> played on the '75 tour. Don't think they did.


Actually, they caught a bit of flack for touring behind "Made In The Shade", I seem to recall - first time ever they went on the road without new "product"? ;-)

I've always loved the album. Hot Stuff is killer.

keeffriffhard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When it was released in april 1976 it was a
> totally disaster...the worst Stones-album
> -ever...now, 30 years later it's a classic!


A disaster? It was #1 during 4 weeks in U.S with a Top 10 and a Top 50 single. A disaster was ABB which after 4 weeks was out of the Top 40 and it was the first Stones album without a Top 100 single in U.S.

If "Black and Blue" was a new release this year...
- the press would have laughed at The Stones and said they were too old
as they needed to hire new guitarists on about every track.

No, no - if Black And Blue was a new release this year...
the press would have loved it - "Rolling Stones are reborn again"

And besides, RS hire guitarists for their shows as well



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-22 20:12 by Erik_Snow.

Well, I think they had a great "rebirth" with A Bigger Bang. At least the press did appreciate it better than VL and BTB. Having said that, Black and Blue is a very good album - it would have been perfect without Cherry Oh Baby. But that is just my opinion.

accoarding to the press ABB was like the second coming. it has some stuff on it that I like but I just dont get all the hype there was about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-22 20:17 by ryanpow.

The Worst. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I think they had a great "rebirth" with A
> Bigger Bang.

You think so ? There sure are mixed emotions about that album [...ehem.....]
But you're right; most of the press-reviews were positive

I always thought that Made in the Shade was just a way to distract attention from Metamorphosis, which came out around the same time.

The 40 Licks tour included new product, I guess, but only Don't Stop made it in the sets, as far as I remember.

Don't think they ever performed Losing My Touch, Stealing My Heart and Keys to Your Love live. (Gee, look at all of those possessive pronouns in those song titles. The Stones sure were focused on ownership in 2002, weren't they?)

OK Just tke your pick. Black and Blue or A Bigger Bang. Give me A Bigger Bang anyday.

Black And Blue is in a different class to A Bigger Bang.

The Stones hadn't quite lost their muse at that point in time although i think it's fair to say they were no longer as focused as they had been at the turn of the 70s. The greatness was still very apparent if not quite so finely tuned.

With A Bigger Bang the emphasis is more on crafting a palatable album which is easily digestable to the masses by incorporating a few typical Stones sounds which weakly echo the Stones at their best. However,the genuine Stones magic by this time was long gone.

Black And Blue isn't prime Stones but it contains enough flashes of the old magic to show the Stones still at that point in time had a relevant place in the music scene.

My Stones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK Just tke your pick. Black and Blue or A Bigger
> Bang. Give me A Bigger Bang anyday.

I'll take Black and Blue

come on! black and blue is 10 times the album that is a bigger bang! you can't compare!

If Black And Blue was released this year, we could expect the "reverends" Al (The Dookie Artist) Sharpton and "Shakedown" Jesse Jackson to lead a massive media hullaballoo over the lyrics and premise of "Hey Negrita," a song about a black streetwalker. They would no doubt agitate to ban ALL Rolling Stones music from the public airwaves, demand apologies and payouts.

Edward Twining Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Black And Blue is in a different class to A Bigger
> Bang.
>
> The Stones hadn't quite lost their muse at that
> point in time although i think it's fair to say
> they were no longer as focused as they had been at
> the turn of the 70s. The greatness was still very
> apparent if not quite so finely tuned.
>
> With A Bigger Bang the emphasis is more on
> crafting a palatable album which is easily
> digestable to the masses by incorporating a few
> typical Stones sounds which weakly echo the Stones
> at their best. However,the genuine Stones magic by
> this time was long gone.
>
> Black And Blue isn't prime Stones but it contains
> enough flashes of the old magic to show the
> Stones still at that point in time had a relevant
> place in the music scene.


Exactly my thoughts!

BLACK&BLUE was much better effort than IT'S ONLY ROCK AND ROLL (that was their first effort to play as 'they used to do', and it can been heard as quite uninspired material), but somehow the band did not totally found its new focus or direction yet. They are in the middle of process that never quite accomplished. With SOME GIRLS they were found new muses (punk, disco) and there they nail the thing 100%. But there is something peculiar in BLACK % BLUE that can not be found in any other Stones album. I think one can call it 'maturation'. If they would have included "Worried About You" or "Slave" as well (as is recommended here), this theme would be even clearer. It's quite 'odd' Jagger there, don't you think? The guy who sings about his daughter who tell to his daddy to not to cry, tells long stories about 'memory motels' and strange shooting accidents in 'one-horse-town'; quite strange, and even idiosyncratic stuff sometimes. You don't find story-ballads like "Memory Motel" or "Fool To Cry" in any other Stones album. Something was going with Jagger at the time, and his usual irony and laugh was not so much present but something else (a brief melancholy even?) The mood of "Hand of Fate" is also unique piece of work by the Stones; I don't find that anywhere else. Even the rocker "Crazy Mama" has a sort of dark, not so light-hearted, usual 'let's just fvck' feeling in it; there is some distance with the band and the style of the song it is; they - especially Mick's voice - played with a 'I've seen it all, but I am not too impressed, but more like bored now' attitude, new way the same old thing (for example, the attitude in SOME GiRLS towards the rockers is very different). The jazzy "Melody" is a new kind of 'sophisticated night-club Las Vegas-friendly' reading of their blues past, where Muddy and Robert Johnson are left behind. Maybe Jagger felt this was going too far, and decided to leave "Slave" and "Worried About You" out, to not show too much sensitivity or vulnerabilty or sounding like old fart or whatever.

But then there are those crazy experimets with recent black music. I personally love "Hot stuff" as one of their strongests statements ever. It is really 'fvck you all who thought we should sound something you suggest'. That's living and breathing, bad-ass Rolling Stones I love. "Cherry Oh Baby" is a reggae experiment and one of their biggest failures ever, and think it really is one of the main reasons why the whole album never reached any masterpiece status. Because there is only 8 songs, each of them weights quite a lot. For example, compared to "Hot Stuff", "Hey Negrita" sounds quite lame, and the standard of the album obviously suffers from that.

I think if BLACK&BLUE would be released now, and some of its 'maturation' themes would take bravely further, perhaps added with Keith's recent 'matured' ballad stuff, we might have The Stones' own TIME OUT OF MIND in our hands, a new chapter in the recorded history of The Rolling Stones. Instead of that we got new versions of the same IT'S ONLY ROCK'N' ROLL album again and again (well, to be true: not very often...).

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-23 01:54 by Doxa.

I used to hate Black & Blue, actually the first time I heard it I thought it sucked completely. However, over time I've grown to enjoy it more and more. I like the proposed tracklisting from the first page in this thread that was put forth too. The only song I really don't like on it is Melody; now if we only had something else to put in it's place...

Lukester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My Stones Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK Just tke your pick. Black and Blue or A
> Bigger
> > Bang. Give me A Bigger Bang anyday.
>
> I'll take Black and Blue


Tough call. I'll take ABB for it's depth. But the good songs on B&B are better than the good songs on ABB....Does that make sense?...I didn't think so.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

What is it about Cherry Oh Baby and Melody that so many do not like? No they are not great songs but they do give the album perspective.

They both work for me. Yes even live in 75 at MSG. At that show Cherry Oh Baby was followed by Angie and Wild Horses. IMO one of the best three song sets of slower numbers the Stones have ever done. They all rock.

A Bigger Bang having greater depth makes sense to me.That's how I feel.Although there probably are no songs on ABB as good as Hand Of Fate for example,ABB has a higher total of quality songs.Having said that,I think the '90's albums were better than both ABB and Black and Blue.

As for ABB,and any other Stones album for that matter,there are going to be some sounds in the traditional Stones style because,they are the Stones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-23 06:59 by Theif in the Night.

R Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Black And Blue was released this year, we could
> expect the "reverends" Al (The Dookie Artist)
> Sharpton and "Shakedown" Jesse Jackson to lead a
> massive media hullaballoo over the lyrics and
> premise of "Hey Negrita," a song about a black
> streetwalker. They would no doubt agitate to ban
> ALL Rolling Stones music from the public airwaves,
> demand apologies and payouts.


....I think the media buzz would have made it a Bigger Black and Blue and a hot seller.... Virgin pretty much killed the last album.......marketing wise....