Gazza Wrote:
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> svendborg Wrote:

> I'd say Dylan, but I'm biased of course!
>
> I'd say that Lennon-Mccartney were the most
> important songwriting 'team' though (even if I
> prefer Mick and keith personally and, yes, I know
> that John & Paul did write a lot separately)

Well Dylan off course is one of the all time greats, I have to agree on that. And there's off course Ray Davies of the Kinks, who wrote some great stuff as well and many others.
Yes Lennon/McCartney were the most important "team", although 80 per cent were written separately. Mick and Keith is a different ball game, they're great as well. I won't go into the Lennon/McCartney vs Jagger/Richards thing. The first two were the best writers for the Beatles and the latter two the best writers for the Stones. There's really no point in comparing the two bands as they were quite different. Love both bands.
Talking of the Beatles we must not forget, that they had a third great writer, but that's a different story.

Gazza Wrote:
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> same could be said with McCartney, in fairness.
> Dont get me wrong, svendborg, I'm a big Beatles
> fan (2nd favourite band) and I love some of
> Lennon's solo work..I just think that as a solo
> artist, his actual output was uninspired
> post-1971...which basically means most of his
> career outside of the Beatles.

Yeah Paul made a lot of classic songs during the Beatles years as well, sure he did. You're right concerning John's solo years, his best work were the first two albums, although I still think there were great songs on the latter albums as well, but unfortunately also some uninspired things. But I think even on Doubble Fantasy he had quite a few great songs.

Good points on both of those replies!

Double Fantasy is surprisingly crisp & good when ya put it on nowadays!

Baboon Bro Wrote:
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> Double Fantasy is surprisingly crisp & good when
> ya put it on nowadays!

Yeah I quite like that album, not just because it was his last. I really do think that even some of Yoko's songs on it is worth listening, sorry ;-)

So help me God, I do too. She aint hopeless with music either;
but her voice is/was (esp. in 60s/early 70s) unbearable.

Baboon Bro Wrote:
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> So help me God, I do too. She aint hopeless with
> music either;
> but her voice is/was (esp. in 60s/early 70s)
> unbearable.

Excactly what I pointed out earlier in this thread, but things really did change down the line. That was point I tried to make and nothing else :-)

Sorry, didnt follow it from scratch.
Have tried to prove that before, here; but gave up.

Al female artists are slashed down to pieces at this site.

Baboon Bro Wrote:
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> Sorry, didnt follow it from scratch.
> Have tried to prove that before, here; but gave
> up.
>
> Al female artists are slashed down to pieces at
> this site.


Well that's alright :-)
People in this thread are still concerned about her performance in the Rock and Roll Circus and judge her only on that, even if they havn't heard anything she's done since.

She may be one of the reasons why the Beatles split up. She may be. I will always hate her for that. Sorry.

Svartmer Wrote:
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> She may be one of the reasons why the Beatles
> split up. She may be. I will always hate her for
> that. Sorry.

That old story dosn't become anymore true being repeated down the years. Come up with some other reasons to hate the old lady :-)

Svartmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She may be one of the reasons why the Beatles
> split up. She may be. I will always hate her for
> that. Sorry.

Or we could thank her: picture them as some kind of B-Crosby, Stills.. :OS

Baboon Bro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Or we could thank her: picture them as some kind
> of B-Crosby, Stills.. :OS

Ouch ;-)

I just think it was very selfish the way Lennon/Ono behaved. "I´m in love with this woman and therefore she must participate in everything we do from now on".
Had Mick or Keith accepted that? No way.

Svartmer Wrote:
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> I just think it was very selfish the way
> Lennon/Ono behaved. "I´m in love with this woman
> and therefore she must participate in everything
> we do from now on".
> Had Mick or Keith accepted that? No way.

Well John never quite said that. He just wanted her to be around, not being a part of the band.
I don't know what Mick and Keith would have accepted...but they might have a different view concerning women...quite a few of their lyrics tell us, that they don't figure women as equal persons.

That´s not the point. The band is one thing, the family another. Basic stuff really.

ok ok ok...let's break down this Yoko Ono is a genius stuff...
First let's look at some definitions of genius:

Someone who has exceptional intellectual ability and originality;
*Gotta give Yoko the nod on originality; I don't know her personally, but Lennon found her to be highly intellectual.

Unusual mental ability
*What Yoko does is highly unusual as per her mental abilities. +2 Yoko

Exceptional creative ability
*Whether you like her or not, she is extremely creative.

A person who influences another for good or bad:
*She influenced Lennon/Beatles...most people think it as bad, but she did influence him/them.

A peculiar, distinctive, or identifying character or spirit
*Yoko is definitely all of the above!


A person endowed with transcendent mental superiority
*Subjective-Some will agree, others will argue the above.

Here's a tribute site to her "genius"
[www.seattleschool.net]

Here's the most recent example of her genius:
John's birthday poem...I can feel the spirit of John Lennon conveyed by Yoko as I read it.
[blogs.guardian.co.uk]

Now...Yoko's genius is not like Einstein was a rocket scientist genius...her genius is artistic genius.
Of course, if you have disdain for her role & association with John Lennon and the Beatles, then that will always be a barrier for you.

Personally, I think she's a riot! She cracks me up...
Very funny lady...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-20 04:25 by NumberOneStonesFan.

her intelligence and originality arent in dispute

I'm still curious as to what part of her actual creative output you find worthy of the term 'genius'?

Was it the fact that she wrote all those early unheard of Beatles songs that you think the Stones were covering when they 'started out'?

Yeah the Yoko-Noise was awful.


On an 'If Only' note, whan I hear the Dirty Mac play Yer Blues, and think of the Roof-Top jam, together with Lennon singing Come Together live (which I heard on the radio the other day, New York?), If Only the Beatles had toured longer playing their good stuff, instead of that early crap.

nothing specific, just her whole package is of genius, and what a package it is.
Me-owww!

Human garbage.

i think many of her art installations over the years...from pre beatle john days till just recently, show distinct a genius for original contemorary art;
a lot of her work is interactive and i've enjoyed and been touched by many of her installations...

i think people might have to consider man ray and other early 20th century modern, post modern contemorary artists movements, to sort of appreciate the general tradition from which she is operating from...

also seemingly a direct desecendant of these kinds of movements and philosophies, the early solo john/yoko albums, which i personally bought at the time and had no problem appreciating or enjoying...
...the baby's heartbeat and the silence tracks and some of the other stuff on 'two virgins' and 'life with the lions' were very moving piece in their own way, and even as a kid, i sort of 'got' that this was adventurous and challenging pop conventions and i dug it...

...and some of their short films, amateur as they are, showed two people enjoying and living their own renaissance of expression and i wouldn't have wanted to deny them that...

her sound and vocalizing experiements with ornette coleman preceded her relationship with john also...she really did have her own career without him...
i guess you could say the same about linda eastman and her photography at the time, to a lesser extent in a different and more commercial medium...

i liked 'two virgins' and 'life with the lions' and the whole drama of their love.
john was very insecure, despite the wry arrogance...remember he was the one who would throw up from nerves before beatle concerts in the early going...

i don't know what the personal dynamics of all that stuff was...it's been written about ad infinitum...but i always thought their relationship was touching, and had respect for her.
if i was in their band and along came her in a bed in the studio, i don't know how i would have responded...there was so much bitterness and competition in in the band at the time of 'let it be', instead of love and humor and acceptance...

she influenced john's writing from 'norweigan wood' and on a quite a bit of their entire catalog, as a muse anyway, and also to some degree, as a sort of influence, and encouragement of his more prosaic and imagery ridden work...maybe she made him feel safe enough and free enough to go into those directions...
i have respect for her.
i think she made Julian suffer quite unnecessarily for a very long time over his rightful ineritance, and i don't really understand that bit, nor do i like it...but generally speaking, i think she gets a lot of hatred for being the symbol of a band already breaking up, and also her avant garde work just plain frightens people who don't like that kind of thing or want to take the time to appreciate the genre...she is justifiably huge in the contemporary art world for almost fifty years.

and i dug 'why' and some of her stuff with the plastic ono band.
and also thought some of it very embarassing and out of place, naieve...silly...
so, it's a mixed 'bag' pardon the expression.

i understand why people don't like her i think...i mean, that is an awful caterwaul when you're expecting one of the best singers and rhythm guitar players in rock and roll, in these super groups with keith or eric etc...
both rs circus and live in toronto side two...
and you get thirty minutes of wailing...well, it does test one's patience...