Good post, oldkr. Well put and initiated.

>> This behaviour is not unusual for a man of his age. <<

LoFL: it is indeed unusual behaviour for anyone of any age to release *any* music,
let alone a studio album, a concert album, three dvd sets plus a bunch of other projects
in between three world tours and one international one. but like i said earlier: ... good health to you :E


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

I am listening to some old Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly and Gram Parsons tunes, maybe I get an interesting idea for a new STONES-album

Hey, we got ourselves a real Keith on board (see post above) :O)

F.U.C. the Captain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>He showed it with "Losing my touch" (crap) and his
> relative non-existence on "A bigger bang". There
> are various reasons: the no more existing Glimmer
> Twin-relationship,

Now - I've read this statement in a lot of threads in various forms - but when and how did it become a fact, that Richards did not contribute much to ABB??

Mick Jagger himself has stated in a lot of interviews that he and Keith worked closely together on this album - the same has been stated by Watts and Wood.

I've read interviews with Jagger concerning other albums where he has been quite happy to claim ownership to particular songs - Keith Richards the same. This time not so much - they have even stated publicly that they worked more together on on the songs on ABB than any album since God only knows....

...so this leads to the conclusion that Richards did not contribute his fair share? I'd at least like to see some sort of circumstantial evidence for the truth in this??

Maybe it's just some information that I'm not privy to - but then enlighten me. It seems as if something is stated often enough it becomes a fact.

...and btw: I love "Losing My Touch" - I think it's way better than the other three new tracks on "40 Licks" - including "Don't Stop" ;-)

Just my personal view, mind you ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-09 19:34 by mofur.

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-31 06:06 by cirrhosis.

>
> Now - I've read this statement in a lot of threads
> in various forms - but when and how did it become
> a fact, that Richards did not contribute much to
> ABB??
>
> Mick Jagger himself has stated in a lot of
> interviews that he and Keith worked closely
> together on this album - the same has been stated
> by Watts and Wood.
>
>

i read a quote from Keith, i dont remember where. He said, he had infamy, this place is emty and half of rough justice, and that Mick was far more prepared.

ilikemick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i read a quote from Keith, i dont remember where.
> He said, he had infamy, this place is emty and
> half of rough justice, and that Mick was far more
> prepared.

That was always the case - not just for ABB ;-)

frankotero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Either of Keef's solo releases are better than all
> of Mick's put together (my opinion). Would be nice
> to have a third album, wonder if it would be rock
> n' roll, reggae or country?

I think that Talk is cheap is a @#$%& great album :-)

toomuchforme Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gwen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I believe Keith has been disappointed with the
> > sales of the Wingless Angels CD and the way it
> > affected his relationships with the some of
> Angels
> > who felt they were not paid enough. That's
> > probably why Keith never released a Volume Two.
>
> I have the cd and even with the HDCD encoding
> providing a nice sound, it is boring

That record was a real eye opener for me. Made me interested in a part of Jamaican music that I didn't know much about

The main reason for the lack of Keith solo album (apart from the lack of creativity) is the failure of Main Offender. He release an album in 1988, it got great reviews, it reached the Top 25, it was Top 100 during 5 months and it sold about 2 million copies worldwide.
In 1992 the Stones' last studio album was 3+ years old already and a new solo album is a good move, in theory, but when it was released it bombed, charting only at #99 and selling less than 1/4 of Talk Is Cheap, even with a tour behind the record. By worse, Mick released his best solo album which got good reviews and good sales. Keith buried his solo adventure.

A new solo album NOW means:
- Get a band
- Get a record contract
- Write about 10-11 songs alone in a couple of months
- Release the record
- Promote the record
- And maybe a tour

It's TOO HARD WORK for Keith, and worse with the Stones touring so frequently now, if he didn't record a solo album between 1999-2001, it's impossible now. A Stones album is always more easy with Mick doing the 80% of the work.

mofur Wrote:

> Now - I've read this statement in a lot of threads
> in various forms - but when and how did it become
> a fact, that Richards did not contribute much to
> ABB??
>
> Mick Jagger himself has stated in a lot of
> interviews that he and Keith worked closely
> together on this album - the same has been stated
> by Watts and Wood.


Fair point although,in fairness say (hypothetically of course) Jagger wrote an entire Stones album because Keith was out of it/washed up/lazy (tick where applicable) - do you think theyd seriously admit that in interviews? There's a certain public face that has to be presented.

Being a huge Stones fan I have always enjoyed both Mick and Keefs solo outings when they came out. I liked Keiths a little better, but now with hindsight, and a replaying of Micks compilation, I have to say Keith blows Mick away in the solo category. Mostly due to the legs. Keith's songs still rock and groove years later. Mick's stuff mostly seems dated, and makes me stretch to remember why I liked it when it came out. I find myself skipping over almost everything but Evening Gown and the newly released tracks on his best of. Sorry Mick, I love you, but you need Keith much more than he needs you. Having said that Mick is still at the top of his considerable game regarding live performances, wheras Keith has lost a bit.

keith should do another solo album instead of sitting around waiting for mick to arrange another world tour

melillo, thats just ignorant my friend. We all know micheal cohl arranges everything!

Seriously I bet keith spends more days behind a microphone or on a stage off tour than mick does. He plays all the time - invites many great musicians to play with him and is invited by just as many.

to think that keith wont make another album "because the last one didnt sell" is also missing the point entirely.

OLDKR

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fair point although,in fairness say
> (hypothetically of course) Jagger wrote an entire
> Stones album because Keith was out of it/washed
> up/lazy (tick where applicable) - do you think
> theyd seriously admit that in interviews? There's
> a certain public face that has to be presented.

Yes, but this is all speculation, and even if this is/was the case, nowhere does it say that it applies to ABB.

This is almost an argument in reverse - because if they will not deny it publicly, it must be so? Reminds me of a presidential campaign in the USA, where one of the candidates (I believe it was Lyndon B. Johnson) is said to have wanted to call the other a pigf*cker.

His campaigners warned him that it was not true but as Lyndon B. remarked, "I know, but I would like to see him deny it publicly" (If you fling a bowl of pasta at the wall some of it is bound to stick!)

We can speculate all we want - only the four main Stones know what went down in the studio, who did what and why. And I don't see any reason why Keef should not have contributed to ABB - this was before his fall and he seemed in fine shape.

Mind you, I'm not saying that Mick Jagger did NOT make the whole album by himself - I would not know.

There is one thing, though, that supports the defence for Mr. Redlands - ABB does not sound remotely like "Goddess"

And, they seemed happy enough to admit that Ronnie Wood had mainly served as an expensive session man on these recordings, which is also a bit unusual for them.

Summing up, my point was only that we should not make facts out of something that we really do not know anything about. And I'd been reading in so many threads that Keith did not contribute - yet have never seen any evidence to support this. So to me it seemed that "somebody at some time" had made this observation and now it is being perpetuated as a fact.

But - ah well - if they don't deny it, it must be true?? ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-10 09:49 by mofur.

Not many of us are in a position to know the real whys and wherefores.
My own position is purely personal and selfish ;^).
I'd love to hear some of the great music that Keith can [and does] create released.
As, I suspect, would very many of us !



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-10 10:25 by Spud.

cirrhosis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's nothing wrong with calling Keith on his
> empty threat of a new solo album.

Did Keith actually say something about a solo album???

If so, that would go along with the parting words in London of a friend in the Keith/Tony Russell backstage camp: "See you on Keith's solo tour next year!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-10 10:56 by little queenie.

>> we should not make facts out of something that we really do not know anything about. <<

thanks mofur - i've noted the same thing regarding the second-guessing about songwriting,
but ... you know they never listen to me :E

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> we should not make facts out of something that
> we really do not know anything about. <<
>
> thanks mofur - i've noted the same thing regarding
> the second-guessing about songwriting,
> but ... you know they never listen to me :E


Weeelll....I have no hard evidence to prove they ever listen to me, either ;-)

oldkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> melillo, thats just ignorant my friend. We all
> know micheal cohl arranges everything!
>
> Seriously I bet keith spends more days behind a
> microphone or on a stage off tour than mick does.
> He plays all the time - invites many great
> musicians to play with him and is invited by just
> as many.
>
> to think that keith wont make another album
> "because the last one didnt sell" is also missing
> the point entirely.
>
> OLDKR

let me tell you something boy, you call me ignorant, if you think mick does not have alot to do with getting these tours together your nuts and have not been paying attention for the past 35 years, even before cohl jagger was incharge of
overseeing everything, so stop calling the kettle black, i dont care how much keith fiddles around with his guitar, thats not an album for the public now is it

C'mon, Melillo...OldKR didn't call you ignorant and his Michael Cohl remark was a joke. That's why the next sentence begins with the word, "seriously." Look you think MAIN OFFENDER's commercial failure has influenced Keith's decision not to make another solo album, OldKR disagrees. So what? Neither of you know for sure. They're just posts on a messageboard, lets not blow things out of proportion and yes, I know you didn't start it. But just agree to disagree.

its Ok for melillo to have a hissy fit. I wont stop it! i was just voicing an informed opinion,

OLDKR

little queenie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> If so, that would go along with the parting words
> in London of a friend in the Keith/Tony Russell
> backstage camp: "See you on Keith's solo tour next
> year!"


That is interesting. I spoke with 2 people from that camp that were literally crying because they said they couldn't believe they were watching him for the last time.

"Compared to "Wandering Spirit" "Main Offender"
sucked"

Maybe you should give these 2 discs another listen?

Main Offender sucked...

No..No...go back and have another listen...
That baby has grooves that cut deeper than an oxen plowed paddock...



ROCKMAN

F.U.C. the Captain Wrote:
-------------------------
> 32 songs in 10 years is just not enough, babe. It
> won't count as a "creative pause" anymore. This
> behaviour is not unusual for a man of his age. It
> just shows he's essentially finished. Only he's
> still twitching sometimes. The reflexes, you know.

1994/95 15 songs on VL and 4 b-sides
1997/98 13 songs on BTB and 1 b-side
2002 4 new tracks on 40 Licks plus the leftover Hurricane
2005 16 songs on ABB plus 2 bonus tracks

And the live recordings like Like A Rolling Stone, Corinna, The Nearness Of You, Night Time etc.

I count 62 songs in 13 years (not included: the two jams on FF).

You might say 'They didn't write these cover songs.' That's right. But they recorded them. Just like Harlem Shuffle, Going To A Go-Go and everything in the old days.

> F.U.C. the Captain Wrote:
> -------------------------
> > 32 songs in 10 years is just not enough, babe.

Pokalheld Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I count 62 songs in 13 years (not included: the two jams on FF).

This doesn't change the fact he has only recorded (about) 32 songs in the studio in the last ten years. After "Bridges of Babylon" he became really lazy or burned out or whatever, unwilling to release. It simply cannot be denied. Playing the same old stuff he has played for the last 45 years cannot be called "creative" however.

F.U.C. the Captain Wrote:
--Playing the
> same old stuff he has played for the last 45 years
> cannot be called "creative" however.

Neither can some of these posts.

Yep, Keith got lazy after BRIDGES TO BABYLON. When should he have recorded a new Stones album? While they spent three years on the road promoting BRIDGES? When Mick took two years off to make two movies and a solo album? When they only had time to complete a handful of original songs before rushing back out on the road for two years? When Mick darted off to compose a movie soundtrack? That brings us to Autumn 2004 when they did sit down and record a new Stones album...the very first chance Keith had to do so in seven years. They then spent three years on the road promoting A BIGGER BANG and now we're antsy because there's no word of recording sessions since they got off the road 6 weeks ago? So we give Keith shit for not recording a solo album during the downtime? Essentially we got two studio tracks...both covers...one from 2000 and the other from 2001. He must be finished right? The trouble there is both tracks originated as contributions to tribute albums so of course they were covers. We have Sheryl Crow's word that Keith had a fantastic track called "High or Low" that she was trying to get him to record with her in the same era. We have the word of musicians like George Receli, Blondie Chaplin, Bobby Keyes, and Al Green that they have taken part in numerous recording sessions with Keith during the downtime. No one has said they only played covers. A select few have heard some of these tapes. The public may get it, they may not but the evidence appears to be the well's not dry, its just being kept indoors.