any of our scholars know about this? have a confirmed source that says it exists along with a longer, unreleased outtake of Loving Cup among other EOMS unciruclating outs.

yeah, it's said to exist, but i've never heard of it being in circulation;
never even heard of anyone claiming to have heard it, except for the band.
maybe someday :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-08 20:02 by with sssoul.

I have never heard Rip This Joint with Richards on vocals, either. If it's circulating among some collectors...then they sure are faithful to their sources, and not passing it on.

I've always wondered if its just the session reel for Keith's backing vocal track.

uuuh....its difficult with these rumours....remember a time in the early 80s or so when hardcore collectors talked about fabled outtakes like a 12 minute-version of Little Red Rooster amongst other things that someone claimed to own...now 30 years later it has yet to surface...then again, talking about a 12 minute blues probably meant the long version of Hillside Blues which indeed surfaced shortly afterwards.

also remember that for decades Key To The Highway from the Chess sessions was only rumoured to exist until it surfaced on Time Trips 5 when nobody really expected it!

and 'English Summer' - one of the holy grails in Stones mystery...some of us take it for granted that this fabled unreleased mid-sixties single really exists, then again, so far no trace.

as Ive said, its difficult handling these rumours...the might be true, they might not. who knows until they finally see the light of day?

well, i can definitely tell you it's not just a rumor. there's a master reel that's in a tight circle of collectors and hasn't yet leaked....

cool. so can you ask this person how much of the lyric of Rip This Joint is on this demo?
(that's what it is, right? a demo rather than an outtake in the strict sense?)

alimente Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> uuuh....its difficult with these
> rumours....remember a time in the early 80s or so
> when hardcore collectors talked about fabled
> outtakes like a 12 minute-version of Little Red
> Rooster amongst other things that someone claimed
> to own...now 30 years later it has yet to
> surface...then again, talking about a 12 minute
> blues probably meant the long version of Hillside
> Blues which indeed surfaced shortly afterwards.
>
> also remember that for decades Key To The Highway
> from the Chess sessions was only rumoured to exist
> until it surfaced on Time Trips 5 when nobody
> really expected it!
>
> and 'English Summer' - one of the holy grails in
> Stones mystery...some of us take it for granted
> that this fabled unreleased mid-sixties single
> really exists, then again, so far no trace.
>
> as Ive said, its difficult handling these
> rumours...the might be true, they might not. who
> knows until they finally see the light of day?


What's 'English Summer'? I've never heard of it before, but you've got my interest. :-)

StonesBlake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's 'English Summer'? I've never heard of it
> before, but you've got my interest. :-)


There's also a couple of songs from 1969: Toss The Coin, Old Vulture and eh one more, that may be just myths - but one is always on the lookout.

Most fans believe "English Summer" (which was also cut by Marianne Faithfull and never released) is a lost Jagger/Richards composition. I've always wondered if it wasn't an early title for "Dandelion." Something between "Sometimes Happy, Sometimes Blue" and the finished version. Just a guess.

Rocky Dijon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most fans believe "English Summer" (which was also
> cut by Marianne Faithfull and never released) is a
> lost Jagger/Richards composition. I've always
> wondered if it wasn't an early title for
> "Dandelion." Something between "Sometimes Happy,
> Sometimes Blue" and the finished version. Just a
> guess.


strange, real strange! because these are exactly my thoughts too! whenever I imagined how English Summer possibly sounded I always had Dandelion in mind too! probably because Dandelion always sounded indeed like a lost single from the summer of love in my ears.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-09 00:04 by alimente.

Its the time frame both titles came from as well. While "Dandelion" remained an A-side in the US, in the UK it was relegated to the flip side of "We Love You." It would certainly fit the bill of the legendary "lost single." Who knows. Maybe a future TIME TRIP will prove us both wrong. I certainly wouldn't be disappointed.

The tapes released on the Time Trip series and VGP's Hillside Blues all came from Jimmy Miller himself, and were part of a '93 Sotheby's auction. There's quite some stories about the last two or three years of Miller in London, circa '90.

Miller was a recovering alcoholic who was very much in demand as a producer due to his Stones relation. The stories go that Miller was struggling wth his addictions, and prefered taking bands to bars then recording them. The stories are that he loved telling everybody about the Stones, whom he still deeply amdired. He had a set of tapes, and he made copies of the tapes for his friends. Several of these tapes have been released on bootlegs, but there's still some floating around.

Mathijs

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 18:42 by parislocksmith.

parislocksmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I met Johnny Thunders in 1983 and asked him what
> it was like working with Jimmy Miller. Thunders
> (of all people) bluntly replied: "Jimmy? He's just
> an old junkie." Still, to Miller's - and Thunders'
> - credit, "In Cold Blood" is not half-bad.

It would have been interesting to have heard Jimmy Miller play drums for the Heartbreakers too.

Can't understand why people would have a small network of traders and not want to share their music with people. I suppose they don't want a bootleg label making money of their stuff but still it kills me that we can't hear this stuff.. Someone here recently was trying to sell 1972 clips for insane amounts of money.

Hound Dog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can't understand why people would have a small
> network of traders and not want to share their
> music with people. I suppose they don't want a
> bootleg label making money of their stuff but
> still it kills me that we can't hear this stuff..
> Someone here recently was trying to sell 1972
> clips for insane amounts of money.


It's exactly the bootlegers that make people keep such material to themselves - well in addition to having paid a lot for the stuff themselves.

I wonder how it went with the money-eating ghost of MSG 1972...

well if someone paid thousands for something why would they give it away to all for free.

OLDKR

There is a very good reason for keeping goodies in a closed circle. Once it is getting out of the hands of people you do know personally it will be used commercially, not for your own personal interest, but for some other people's commercial interest only. If it took a lot of hard work to get there that is not what you want.

Bjornulf

I guess its really the bootleg companies that are really the scumbags so to speak, like those who took Drake's recordings and started selling them all over the internet. But there are also people like the owner of that bar in Fairfield the Box Car, where Keith got up on stage recently and did a blues set. I spoke to him and he is holding on to the tape of that performance hoping to make cash from it.. Now would be a good time, that bar went out of business a few months after Keith played there.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 18:54 by parislocksmith.

parislocksmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am, however, somewhat intrigued by what you are
> saying about keeping the 'goodies' to oneself. If
> someone disseminates previously unreleased
> material via, say, IORR will that material
> necessarily end up being used commercially? I may
> be overly naive, but it was my impression that the
> commercial bootlegging business had been almost
> eradicated by the fan-to-fan swapping of
> unofficial material on the internet.


Uploading "bootlegs" to the web, surely is the bootlegers loss.
But it's the other way around when somebody is uploading "uncirculated material"....in decent quality.
About 60-70% of the bootlegs released today, are copied from torrents.

Hardcore collectors like rare things. A recording no one has, or few others have, would make it pretty rare. The more rare to them, the more valuable.

I never quite got that. I get more satisfaction out of sharing something I have and get a kick out of others enjoying it. Whether it's music, a painting, a great wine or anything else.

But to a lot of serious collectors, the joy is in possessing something unique, not in sharing it. Not my thing, but, to each his/her own...

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 15:53 by parislocksmith.

buffalo7478 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I never quite got that. I get more satisfaction
> out of sharing something I have and get a kick out
> of others enjoying it. Whether it's music, a
> painting, a great wine or anything else.


Yes - sharing for free is the way to do it - but in some cases I do understand why it's better to keep it to oneself.

You might view things different, if you had

- bought the recording for a lot of money
- you had promised your "source" to not pass it on
- you had shared other recordings in the past, which the bootlegers made a lot of money of...without asking

parislocksmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Erik,
>
> You are no doubt correct, but it also seems a bit
> odd that anyone who is interested enough in the
> Stones (or in any other band) to buy - often quite
> dearly - unofficial material would not be familiar
> with the other means of acquiring it.


Hello Paris, eh, sorry I didn't quite catch you.... do you mean "buying bootlegs" or "buying uncircualated material" ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-09 23:27 by Erik_Snow.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 15:51 by parislocksmith.

parislocksmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I meant that the people
> who take the trouble of finding shops/people that
> sell bootlegs would also be likely to find the
> forums on the Internet from which they could
> acquire the same material. In other words, it
> would be easier for a Stones fan of today to find
> his or her way to IORR - and then to Hungercity
> and Dime - than to find a shop that sells very
> expensive bootlegs. (Not to mention that it's
> infinitely more sympathetic that unreleased
> material is handed from fan to fan, without anyone
> making a profit out of other people's work.) Given
> this, my naive question is simply, who is still
> running around in record stores in search of
> bootlegs?

But - there's still a lot of people who's not into torrents.
So it's either trade or buy for them

And..from what I've seen - the majority of bootlegs being sold, are bought by people who have no knowledge of what's out there.
That's why there's so many piss-poor bootlegs being made. SOme people will still buy it...
This category of releases, are the ones that's most likely to find in stores, as people who "order them per mail" usually know what they're buying.

It's also the "collectible"-part of it- the same reason people collect rare and expensive 7" singles, even though they have the songs allready.

Also....a real boot -CD or LP- will last for a lot longer than a CDR...

I can't refuse to buy a new bootleg - if it's really a "new/upgraded/great" release. 95% of bootlegs released now is either torrent-copies, or re-hash - with fake desciptions on all these "Bootleg-review-webpages".

But every once in a while...there's a nugget! God bless..!



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-11 01:38 by Erik_Snow.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-24 15:52 by parislocksmith.

don't know if keef could keep up with that fast jazzy pace
knowin him its sorta comical

circa june 1972 Kid Thomas famous for his dancy jazz