see, i don't understand that. why did you have to be there tonight? why won't the resulting recordings paint the picture accurately? they always have in the past....

No comments on that reply....

Jan Richards

[www.stonesondecca.com]

Jan Richards Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No comments on that reply....

what? why not? not a legitimate question? all i'm saying is that i've got recordings of each and every one of the 33 stones shows i've been to and in each case the recording captured the essence of the performance. so why not now? or did i just get lucky 33 straight times?

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jan Richards Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > The solos he did tonight... well you had to
> be
> > there to understand what I mean.
>
> you mean the recordings of the show won't bear
> this out? are the bootleggers gonna dub in some
> different solos or something?????


Bootlegs NEVER do justice to the feeling of actually being there and experiencing the moment. It's just a fact of life - there are those who were there, and those who listen to the bootlegs.

I wasn't born in 73 so I can only imagine what it must have been like to see the stones at their peak. However, tonight was truly wonderful - and I mean that. Different to 72/73 of course but but the feeling was really intense. The were excellent at twicks 2 last year gig definitely surpassed that. It will be interesting to hear what people say tomorrow once they've had time to reflect. However, there is a certain buzz from being at a gig and I am still high from it - and that can never come across in a bootleg.

i'm not talking about the experience of being there. i agree with that point. i'm talking about the music. recordings don't alter that....

Well, a boot recording is not the same as a live experiance. Thats it.

Jan Richards

[www.stonesondecca.com]

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jan Richards Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No comments on that reply....
>
> what? why not? not a legitimate question? all
> i'm saying is that i've got recordings of each and
> every one of the 33 stones shows i've been to and
> in each case the recording captured the essence of
> the performance. so why not now? or did i just
> get lucky 33 straight times?


I've got recordings of the shows I've been to too and they don't always do justice to what was experienced on the night. That is because an audio recording can never capture the interaction between the band and audience. Tonight was probably so special because of some inaudible reaction between the two. Maybe it will come across in the botleg but maybe it won't. I was definitely disapointed with the Twicks 2 bootleg from last year which in no way caught the essence of what made the show so great - and that included Ronnies solos.

Ronnies solos were LOUD tonight and were definitely smoking. But were they technically brilliant? I can't honestly remember! A bootleg would tell me about the technicalities of his playing for sure. But you have to be there to understand the dynamics between the band and the audience - and it is this that makes a show truly great.

okay - fair enough. that's one interpretation. one i happen to disagree with, but whatever.

Well, maybe the bootleg will reflect how good tonight was. I truly hope it does! I am often disappointed by bootlegs of shows I have been to and I want to be able to relive tonight for the rest of my life!

The basic fact is this - I had a much better time at tonights show than I can remember having at any other show (my first was Wembley 95 and I've been to a fair amount since). In a few days that may change - time can temper the highs of being there that night. But I don't think that will happen this time. Sometimes you just know that you experienced something truly great.

Maybe I was too busy having a good time to notice whether or not the music was great. I thing it was. There can be no doubt that MR was brilliant. It's certainly better than I've ever heard it - whether it's better than other performances I can't really say. Ronnie just seemed more into what he was doing than normal. It was his concentration and having a good time that came across to the audience. But he has been good this tour! No-one can say anymore that he can't play etc. He can for sure, Ronnie is back like we've never really heard him!

Anyway, let's have a listen to the boot when it emerges and we'll discuss it then. But please believe us when we say that tonight was great! I wish you were there - I wish I could be there for the next one!

I agree with sjs12

I was amazed how good the band was on the boot from the Hamburg, at the show it didn't travel well - all the way up in the rafters and it was a so-so experience. not bad but not moving.

In Paris I was overwhelmed from the band live on stage and later on, from the boot I discovered how many f***ups there actually were. but what a rocking show, I still glad I went there.

oh, and there's always good seats or spots and the same with recordings...

Well,I've held my tongue long enough. Please do not dismiss this as setlist whining. By all accounts,the Stones have performed very well leading up to and including the 2 London shows so far. Allright I'll take people at their word for that. Although,if I traveled from the US to go to a Stones show,I don't think it would matter,what the reality is. I would come back and say it was great, to justify my actions.
But let's say,the reports are accurate. The stones are on fire,playing better than they ever have. Let me ask a few simple questions and I hope I get some honest answers.

1.Are the versions of IORR,JJF,BS,ICNS,Etc., really better than they have ever been?

2.If they really are that good,don't you think they might be able to tackle more obscure material and play that well?

3.What if they totally ignored warhorses,came up with 1 setlist that did'nt include them and played the same songs night after night? Would'nt they be able to master that set and kill,the same way they do now?

Charmer:

you're treading on the implausibly theoretical now.

i will say this - given the fair number of more obscure numbers they had rehearsed for this leg of the tour, i was not expecting any of them to surface UNTIL these 3 arena shows. so, even I am a little surprised that they have played it so safe and close to the vest. why on earth were they spending hours working on a song like Ventilator Blues if there obviously was no clear intent to actually play it?

Alas, even my most faint hopes for something interesting are turning out to be for naught.....

StonesTod, I consider you a buddy, BUT, you seem pathologically obsessed with picking apart shows you didn't attend. Is this just to make yourself feel relevant?

C'mon, you're better than that, aren't you?

Read the reviews, man.

bassplayer617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> StonesTod, I consider you a buddy, BUT, you seem
> pathologically obsessed with picking apart shows
> you didn't attend. Is this just to make yourself
> feel relevant?
>
> C'mon, you're better than that, aren't you?
>
> Read the reviews, man.

i read reviews. i listen to boots. i trust my ears. this baloney that you "had to be there" is pure bunk. i have no agenda. but, my opinion is as good as the next's....

sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well,I've held my tongue long enough. Please do
> not dismiss this as setlist whining. By all
> accounts,the Stones have performed very well
> leading up to and including the 2 London shows so
> far. Allright I'll take people at their word for
> that. Although,if I traveled from the US to go to
> a Stones show,I don't think it would matter,what
> the reality is. I would come back and say it was
> great, to justify my actions.
> But let's say,the reports are accurate. The
> stones are on fire,playing better than they ever
> have. Let me ask a few simple questions and I hope
> I get some honest answers.
>
> 1.Are the versions of IORR,JJF,BS,ICNS,Etc.,
> really better than they have ever been?
>
> 2.If they really are that good,don't you think
> they might be able to tackle more obscure material
> and play that well?
>
> 3.What if they totally ignored warhorses,came up
> with 1 setlist that did'nt include them and played
> the same songs night after night? Would'nt they be
> able to master that set and kill,the same way they
> do now?

1. IORR did seem to be better than ever tonight. Other versions of those particular warhorses were as good as ever. Paint It Black and Midnight Rambler seemed better than ever too. I've never seen them do Shine a Light or ADTL before but those really were excellent.

2. No - not necessarily. I've seen them f*ck up songs like Loving Cup before and it's just painful to see. Also, the audience don;t always dig the songs as much so the audience / band interaction isn't there to make it as good as it was to night - unless you're in a club of course. That said, I would back them doing some more regular back catalogue obscurities as long as they practiced them properly

3. Maybe - but the vast majority of people at each gig want to see the warhorses.

I actualy think they do a good balance of warhorses to more obscure stuff. I think I would liek maybe a couple more obscure songs but I'm not really that bothered. I just have a great time if they play well and dig it.

I do see your points but the stones are something to everyone. That is to say that every single person can probably see things that they would like to be done better but you can't please everyone all of the time. The stones do a pretty good job of pleasing the majority of people most of the time!

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Charmer:
>
> you're treading on the implausibly theoretical
> now.
>
> i will say this - given the fair number of more
> obscure numbers they had rehearsed for this leg of
> the tour, i was not expecting any of them to
> surface UNTIL these 3 arena shows. so, even I am a
> little surprised that they have played it so safe
> and close to the vest. why on earth were they
> spending hours working on a song like Ventilator
> Blues if there obviously was no clear intent to
> actually play it?
>
> Alas, even my most faint hopes for something
> interesting are turning out to be for naught.....


Maybe VB didn't work out very well in rehearsals!

sjs12 Wrote:
> Maybe VB didn't work out very well in rehearsals!

hey, now! there's a thought. same must have applied to:


19th Nervous Breakdown
All About You
Back Of My Hand
Can't Be Seen
Everybody Needs Somebody To Love
Far Away Eyes
Gimme Shelter
How Can I Stop
I'm Free
Infamy
Just My Imagination
Losing My Touch
Loving Cup
Nearness Of You
Out Of Control
Pretty Beat Up
Rip This Joint
Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin) The Worst
Thief In The Night
Thru and Thru
Undercover
When The Whip Comes Down
You Don't Have To Mean It



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-08-24 06:17 by StonesTod.

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bassplayer617 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > StonesTod, I consider you a buddy, BUT, you
> seem
> > pathologically obsessed with picking apart
> shows
> > you didn't attend. Is this just to make
> yourself
> > feel relevant?
> >
> > C'mon, you're better than that, aren't you?
> >
> > Read the reviews, man.
>
> i read reviews. i listen to boots. i trust my
> ears. this baloney that you "had to be there" is
> pure bunk. i have no agenda. but, my opinion is as
> good as the next's....

Okey dokey. I paid $16 to see them in 1981, and weirdly enough, they sounded better on the boot (acquired just recently) than how I remembered it!

bassplayer617 Wrote:
> Okey dokey. I paid $16 to see them in 1981, and
> weirdly enough, they sounded better on the boot
> (acquired just recently) than how I remembered it!

well, there you have it! and, i agree...and i find it odd that somehow today's boots don't measure up, while those of past tours do or even improve on "being there." i think that's pretty "telling." i'm glad everyone seems to enjoy the shows...and i agree - i saw many shows from this tour - but i find the boots (yeah, even the good broadcasts) to be borderline "unlistenable."

Fantastic concert - never heard a crowd so excited on the way out of a gig...

Just got back - hello to the father/daughter I was chatting to in B3 block tonight
Father's first gig Hyde Park, daughter's first tonight (I think) - both well up for it - great stuff!!

Jet were very good - a sort of Australian Black Crowes with a touch of Slade occasionally - no problem with that...

Forget the set list, it's the performance that matters when you're there - although great to have 6 different songs from Tuesday including top performances of MR and Shine A Light - as stated already, Tuesday VG, Thursday awesome

Crowd louder, Guitars louder [as requested :-)], Sound excellent and the whole band on the money - the whole 'atmosphere' of the show was really positive and rocking!!

Hope they continue this upward curve for Sunday for all of you at the last show - even though I can't go :-(
and go out with A Bigger Bang

this reminds me of grumpy old men who whine about ticket prices and say "I'll wait for the DVD and it will be just as good as being there.."

losers.

being at a show with the band is completely different than listening to it later or watching a dvd. it just is.

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bassplayer617 Wrote:
> > Okey dokey. I paid $16 to see them in 1981, and
> > weirdly enough, they sounded better on the boot
> > (acquired just recently) than how I remembered
> it!
>
> well, there you have it! and, i agree...and i
> find it odd that somehow today's boots don't
> measure up, while those of past tours do or even
> improve on "being there." i think that's pretty
> "telling." i'm glad everyone seems to enjoy the
> shows...and i agree - i saw many shows from this
> tour - but i find the boots (yeah, even the good
> broadcasts) to be borderline "unlistenable."

Tod, you can only blame that on the recording source. The soundboards are great. The audience recordings generally suck (St Petersburg isn't all that good, either)

That being said, a poor quality recording is no way to judge a band's performance ( I played for 30 years, and heard some great performances poorly recorded, and vice versa).

That being said, I'll take an average performance with excellent sound quality over a great performance that sounds like crap any day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-08-24 06:36 by bassplayer617.

hmmm...well even the so-called crappy boots of yestertour are much easier to listen to than some of the better ones from this tour. not sure if i'm following your line of reasoning there.....

>
> i read reviews. i listen to boots. i trust my
> ears. this baloney that you "had to be there" is
> pure bunk. i have no agenda. but, my opinion is as
> good as the next's....


your opinion is hilarious. this music is about the live performance-thats why they do it live-thats why its better when the crowd has alot of energy-thats why people fly all over the world to see it live. you are entitled to your opinion but your opinion is clearly not "as good as the next". laughin my ass off in London...b

you're right, coco. i take it all back. the recordings lie. how all these performers get away with selling live product is beyond me. they ought to be arrested.

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm...well even the so-called crappy boots of
> yestertour are much easier to listen to than some
> of the better ones from this tour. not sure if i'm
> following your line of reasoning there.....

Uh oh. Now you're revealing your true colors. Why are you hanging around then, just to wallow the rest of us in your misery?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-08-24 07:02 by bassplayer617.

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you're right, coco. i take it all back. the
> recordings lie. how all these performers get away
> with selling live product is beyond me. they ought
> to be arrested.

recordings don't lie-they only lie by omision. they only record one sense-sound. i like the feel, smell, sights, and the TASTE baby of a stones show...on the other hand I love live recordings, they just don't even come close my brother Tod...

ah...well, that explains it. i'm a "sound" guy. i guess i need to find a new band where sound isn't important....

I believe Stonestod seems to be saying that the Stones are inferior live to what they were in the past.
I think we can all agree on that to some degree.

dude sound is the most important thing, calm down. it's just not everything. i love to listen to Miles Davis but that one time I saw him play a free show at Grant Park in Atlanta (i was 15) changed my life. Never saw Billie Holiday but she can make me cry on a record, wish I was there. You're not going to find a band where sound isn't important and you're never gonna find a Rock n Roll band where LIVE isn't what it's all about. just my humble opinion my friend....