duece no disresect,but its apparent you have not seen the stones lately,with a good seat like in a arena.theres no way you would say this.have you heard the sound board from rio,06.i ordered it from www.rsconcerts.com.no overdubs,100 percent pure stones.listen to keiths playing on iorr,midnightrambler,oh no not you again,and tumbling dice,just to name a few.then respond to this post and be honest.

john scialfa

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> he started last autumn's leg in a poor state but
> seemed to pick up after a few shows. Hopefully
> we'll have no reason to write him off too soon.


Your right Gazza. I saw the Oakland,Phoenix and LA shows on the fall leg and it sure seemed like keith was carrying the band at that time.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

open-g Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LA FORUM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >


> >
> > This sounds like crap. He's not improvising.
>
>
> Of course it sounds crap - it's a crappy video
> with lousy audio on You Tube.


No, it has nothing to do with the sound. He playes really bad here. He can be so good and this is not him at his best but his worst. Meaning something's wrong. Maybe he was just nervous who knows.

PiotrRSpl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you want to justify The Rolling Stones from
> watching some crappy sounding videos made by
> digital camera and than compressed to youtube
> service than well, maybe you should stop making a
> fool of yourself.


But I understand your point, of course they are better when you're there. However, even really cad bootlegs sound better than this, it's not about the sound at all.

deuce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone's talking about how you can't judge the
> shows based on audio or YouTube video or whatever,
> and to an extent this is true - but come on...put
> up an audience recording of a gig from '78 (let's
> hope!) and then compare it to these vids. I'll go
> with the '78, thank you. Even with subpar quality,
> you can still make out what sounds good and what
> doesn't. Now I'm expecting the usual comments "You
> can leave then", "Why do you stick around?"...I
> stick around because they used to be great and I
> still believe in them but it's hard to stick by
> their side when their just sucking more and more
> lately. If this is the best they've got to offer,
> then maybe they should hang it up after this
> tour.
>
> By the way, Keith just plays the same solo every
> song. I'm sure Mathjis knows what I'm talking
> about


Amen.

what`s wrong with keith.....
Nothing the Rock Utopia can't fix .......



ROCKMAN

We shouldn't overreact. It's true that it wasn't Keith's finest performance but it doesn't mean anything. Over the years Stones have had numerous bad shows (remember first Philly 81 or 78 SNL?) and it seems it was one of these shows. Don't judge them only after one performance. True, I wanna Hold You and Satisfaction were utter mess (look at clips from Youtube - even Mick is confused) but i believe that after a few shows they'll be back on the track. It's usually that way.
There were times in Stones history when Keith was the main motor and there were times when Mick pulled the Stones. I think that today Mick is again on the lead but Keith still is doing fine. That's what I think at least.

I'm usually one of the positive,optimistic types, but the clips really have to concern you.

KR really seemed to be lost/dazed and confused/wasted/senile. Hopefully, tonight's show will be back to normal. A whole tour like this seems hard to imagine.

Do they normally play better in Europe or America? Or about the same?

"No Anchovies, Please"

franzk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We shouldn't overreact. It's true that it wasn't
> Keith's finest performance but it doesn't mean
> anything. Over the years Stones have had numerous
> bad shows (remember first Philly 81 or 78 SNL?)
> and it seems it was one of these shows. Don't
> judge them only after one performance. True, I
> wanna Hold You and Satisfaction were utter mess
> (look at clips from Youtube - even Mick is
> confused) but i believe that after a few shows
> they'll be back on the track. It's usually that
> way.


In fairness, Franz - I dont think I've read a review from anyone who said that the "Stones" as a band had an offnight as a band in Werchter - just Keith.

Agree with you that its too early to write the man off after one apparently sub-par performance. However, it being acceptable that he's back "on the track" after "a few shows" isnt going to be much consolation to those with tickets for shows prior to that. At this level, at these prices and with a band who have a high reputation (GRNRBITW, etc), using a few shows as a warm-up before you hit some acceptable sort of groove isnt the way to do it.

But Gaz, don't you think its more than a band being 'rusty'? It aint like KR hasn't played Brown Sugar in a while.

ablett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But Gaz, don't you think its more than a band
> being 'rusty'? It aint like KR hasn't played Brown
> Sugar in a while.


Come on, Keith´s just played it a couple of thousand times. Give him a little time to get into it.

I can never resist contributing to this type of thread. I'm never comfortable doing it... but I still can't help it...
I've always been one for moderation in all things I suppose [boring ?] and I'll always try to identify the reasonable middle ground between polorised opinions on lots of issues.
Sometimes an opinion at one pole of the issue will be totally correct...I accept that. At other times the truth is somewhere in the middle.

The thing with this Keith issue is that it's impossible to answer. We don't know. How can we ?
It's even more ambiguous because we know that Keith's always been capable of big screw ups and of "not turning up" for some shows.
For whatever reason... but often simply down to his bloody minded "I'm going to play what I'm going to play and you can like it or lump it" attitude.
It's a mind set that just seems to grab him at certain times...with no regard to the hours of rehearsals that he's often so fiercly driven himself !
At the end of the day, you'll never know whether there's anything wrong with him or not until he drops down dead on stage...which is, I supect, how he'd be perfectly happy to go ;^)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-08 16:21 by Spud.

Sarcasm Svartmer! Lowest form of wit.....

ablett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sarcasm Svartmer! Lowest form of wit.....


Sorry, I´m not myself today, I´m usually a nice guy.

Its friday pal! Go get a beer n sit out in the garden......

Svartmer AAhhh that's nuffin' ... Ya shouldn't take it so HARD....



ROCKMAN

I've not been around and just looked at the reviews and this thread, thinking that people were over-reacting again, moaning like they usually do - then I looked at some of the Werchter footage on Youtube, my God, Keith really was out of it, wasn't he, I could hardly believe my ears and eyes.
Poor Keith, I hope for his sake this was just a one off.

I was losing my touch for a moment, sort of slippin´away, better coming down again before you make me run...

What's wrong...

I'll tell ya... Check the photo at Rockman's scanned posting
in the other thread... Thats what's wrong. See his hands?

i do believe 99% of this threads contributors,
are genuinely, concerned for Keith

We want our main-man firing on all cylinders-
and from the youtube clips, he clearly isn't.

i wish him well and hope our Dutch friends get the real-deal, tonight.

Hi!
Wasn´t at Werchter, saw the tube stuff and the official virtual ticket. Yes, Keef looked a little bit worn out, played out of tune and didn´t get his lines right. But guys and girls, this was one night, this was the opening night and many nights will follow. Don´t judge a book by its cover. We´ll see in fall what this leg of the tour has been and how Keef is going on.
God bless, and it won´t be another goodbye to another good friend. Yes, few people would like to have sensation but, well that was only two hours, I often have heavy two hours...
greetings from austria

And that is true, it's only one night, but still.

At Werchter he was dead drunk too, as I got it.
The Arthritis is enough imho.
Hope he can say bye bye to King Alcohol most nites before.

I think any musician who gets up on a stage in front of an expectant audience should treat them with respect, no matter if you happens to be Keith Richards or Ron Wood. It´s their damn responsibility, and if they can´t hack it anymore, well maybe it´s time to think things over.
I´ve seen Rory Gallagher, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jimmy Page and other guitarists drunk, stoned or both unable to play a decent note and that´s just contempt for the crowd in my opinion. They´re supposed to be pros aren´t they?

Svartmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think any musician who gets up on a stage in
> front of an expectant audience should treat them
> with respect, no matter if you happens to be Keith
> Richards or Ron Wood. It´s their damn
> responsibility,

No, clearly its not, have you seen bob dylan, or van morisson? both absolute legends, neither has any responsibility to the crowd. Neither do the stones. The fan pays for the tickets to see a band play for the amount of time alotted by the ticket. That is the beginning and the end of it. The stones have no responsibility to their fans, just as, as a fan at a live show i can sit down if i want to, i can talk on my cellphone all night, I can leave when I choose.

OLDKR

Love Keef but I just watched Wanna Hold You.... he sucks sometimes, I hate to say.

Here's hoping he's "better" for the Paris show!!!!!!!!!!

oldkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Svartmer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think any musician who gets up on a stage in
> > front of an expectant audience should treat
> them
> > with respect, no matter if you happens to be
> Keith
> > Richards or Ron Wood. It´s their damn
> > responsibility,
>
> No, clearly its not, have you seen bob dylan, or
> van morisson? both absolute legends, neither has
> any responsibility to the crowd. Neither do the
> stones. The fan pays for the tickets to see a band
> play for the amount of time alotted by the ticket.
> That is the beginning and the end of it. The
> stones have no responsibility to their fans, just
> as, as a fan at a live show i can sit down if i
> want to, i can talk on my cellphone all night, I
> can leave when I choose.
>
> OLDKR

OLDKR is wrong, completely.

SVARTMER ir right-on!!!


One point I'd quible aboout is I don't think Keith is being contemptuos, but rather perhaps still addicted. Drunk & Age hurts the playing.

All musicians should have responsibility to their fans in the sense that they should do their best to play their best even if that means they have to wait untill after the show to party-hard.

If not, maybe those incompetent @#$%& should refund some of their fans money back.

The Fans -- Us -- we're paying the @#$%& rent!!

Still I like Ketih and if he's drinking to much, I pray, not just for our sake, but for his and his family's sake he gets the booze under control.

Go Macrobiotic for 10 days and see the energy, and lightness of body it will give you keith, you too Ron. You don't have to do it forever.

You're playing will be on fire.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-09 02:59 by deadegad.

I think its pretty obvious he blew it big time.
But I've still got much hope for the rest of the gigs.

deleted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-09 03:02 by deadegad.

Rockman's posted pic from UNCUT JUly 2007

Check his right hand. This is a tough case.
Not just the fingers now.