What's wrong with Keith?.........nothing.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

Nothing is wrong with Keith. it's just some bullshit one more time. The man is still the best rock'n roller in the world!

I'm a little bit buzzed now and didn't read the entire thread...I was amazed at how much footage of Werchter is on youtube.

In all fairness, hearing something that's 200 yards away on a video camera, is far different then you actually hear it.....BUT, having seen the Stones numerous times, I fear Keith is heading down the same path as Jerry Garcia.

Sometimes he's great, but those times are now not as often, he's there, but he's not. More posing and less playing...I don't care if your God, if you want people to keep coming back, you can't go through the motions...you better PLAY and play well.

If I want to hear sloppy Stones songs, I can go see any cover band.

Sometimes it's not cool to be to out of it...even if you're Keith Richards.


PS
If you saw The Who and then saw The Stones...I'm sorry, but Keith is not on the same level as Pete...Pete comes and plays his ass off every night.
I hope Keith steps up his game...I believe he can if he wants to.

...nicely done bingo....the comparison to Garcia was brilliant.....

I have to mildly disagree with you Bingo. At least on Townsend. I saw The Who in Reno a few months ago and Townsend did not bring it at all. He went through all the motions and windmilling but very little playing. Very few solos. imho



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-07 04:24 by sweetcharmedlife.

I think he might keep playing guitar at perpendicularly-placed position.
His guitar play on It's All Over Now at B-stage was really excellent.

After reading all this I still don't get a clear picture of what is going on. Too many different points of view from those who were present.

A question that occurred to me is, how does the supposed underperformance of Keith relate to the big number of Keith songs they rehearsed? Was the emphasise on Keith solo songs necessary because they could not find two songs he could work out from start to finish? And how does his remark about “them wanting him to do Slipping Away” fit into this?

Speaking as a musician with a forgiving heart: Keith's playing was really sloppy and giving the band a hard time to keep everything together. Way beyond the charming roughness that defines the Stonessound. Don't know why, but he definitely was not in the groove. Too much booze or simply one of those days....
Expect to see a better Keith tomorrow in Nijmegen.

I wonder what Keith´s answer to this question would be:
Are you satisfied with your playing nowadays?

I agree with Bitney... but if you closely look at Keith's hands, you will find some strange nodules on his fingers.. I am afraid of polyarthrisis or something like that, very damageable for a musician... (but I am not a Doctor).

But they are many reasons for Keith's rather bad playing in Werchter... and it is not the first time and not the last time.

Rolling Stones offers a real live show.. which imply ups and down, brilliant nights and weaker nights. But even a weak Rolling Stones show is a fabulous show....

We will see what happens the following nights.. surely he will be better.

I saw The Who last Saturday at Southampton, not one of my favourite bands, but my older son wanted to see them... Townsend was excellent. I hadn't realised how much of the vocals is him, his voice is still very good, his guitar playing superb and the band were a team, with no one member standing out as playing better, or worse, than another. No one person was carrying the show, it was a joint effort.

I don't feel I can make any valid comments about Werchter based on low-quality videos posted, but watching 4Flicks, my hero, Keef, on stage, does not come close to Townsend, though it pains me to admit it. I'm still looking forward to 02 but I'm sad that things did not go as well as they should for Werchter.

sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to mildly disagree with you Bingo. At least
> on Townsend. I saw The Who in Reno a few months
> ago and Townsend did not bring it at all. He went
> through all the motions and windmilling but very
> little playing. Very few solos. imho

a clear picture....? well, its difficult. I was there, and I was not happy with Keiths playing. but Werchter, thats just one show. pity for those who were there and did not get to see (or better hear!!!) Keith in best form or least normal form. but a clear picture? lets wait and see how this develops during the tour. I just hope that is was just this one show. however if Keith continues to play on this level (it cant get much lower, honestly) I see no reason to go see the Stones again cause I want to keep them in good memories. but so far its just one show, but again: pity for those who were there and for for whom it was their only show in 2007 because they cant afford to go to other shows. and surely not a show to win new fans for the Stones.

Had to chortle about the complaining that Keith sang the wrong lines in Wanna Hold You, you guys obviously dont listen to many Stones boots, Mick sings the wrong words a few times at every gig, hes just better at covering up,b y singing another verse or a verse that that he already sung. This is a trick ive used myself on many an occassions. Thats rock n roll.
Also expecting a member of the Rolling Stones to be sober because you paid a lot for a ticket has me rolling on the floor in hysterics, Keith has been sober about twice in the whole Stones career.

praline Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > BUT, Mick has noticed that Keith's performance was
> bad, and he will get him to achieve a great show
> for the next concerts to come.
>
Where did Mick say so ?...

sorry humanriff77, its not just singing *wrong lines in Wanna Hold*. but ok if you werent there its understandable that you have the impression that people are bitching about Wanna Hold You only. but Wanna Hold You it became most apparent that Keith was faaaaaar from his best form, and still faar from even normal form. and those prices arent Rock 'n Roll anymore. if you charge opera or classical music prices, dont act surprised that people dont want hanna hear excuses like "thats Rock 'n Roll, baby!". some even expect opera perfection if they pay that much, I dont belong to them, but I dont wanna hear drunk, lacklustre performances which show absolutely no respect for the fan.

That's a fair point Humanriff, but it now seems to becoming a problem and none of us wish to see a guy who we have all admired for decades go down the slippery slope and become an embarrassment.I can never get Elvis' final appearances out of my mind because that's what is implanted in your memory. Let's all hope and pray he can get it together and soon.

My 2 lads ask me why I have been obsessed by the Rolling Stones for all these years.

My reply is, "Just you wait till we see them in Barcelona, they will blow your mind".

So please guys, get it sorted cos I don't want to be am embarrassed dad 2 weeks from now. May be this quote sums it up:

"One thing you can't hide is when you're crippled inside."
(John Lennon)

Lukester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...nicely done bingo....the comparison to Garcia
> was brilliant.....


not to mention somewhat frightening and disturbing

What was the story with Garcia in the end then?

stonesrick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a fair point Humanriff, but it now seems to
> becoming a problem and none of us wish to see a
> guy who we have all admired for decades go down
> the slippery slope and become an embarrassment.I
> can never get Elvis' final appearances out of my
> mind because that's what is implanted in your
> memory. Let's all hope and pray he can get it
> together and soon.

this sums it up perfectly what I mean. Keith is hero of mine since decades and I dont want to see him become an embarrassment (or like one of the people who I spoke to after the show mentioned: "Keith is becoming more and more a clown in a sad way".) thats why I said if it continues like this this will be my last tour because I want to keep the band I love in good memories.

ablett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What was the story with Garcia in the end then?


he died

a brief summary of his sad decline here - [en.wikipedia.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-07 15:44 by Gazza.

I think the point of view of each of us is Ok. Certainly, it is Rock'n roll, and to see Keith drunk on stage with a poor performance is rock'n roll too. But sure the price to pay are expensive and we expect a great performance. Not for the fans (I include myself) who can accept a bad performance from time to time, but for "normal" people who would like to see living legends and can be deceived.

I have been to Paris last year with my wife. It was here first Stones concert and, as I always say for a first Stones gig : "they can be the best and much far beyond any other band, but they can also be the worst. It depends..."
Fortunately, for her (and me) Paris show was nice and, even if she don't like rock'n roll, we were in the FOS and she has understood why I am a fan... my honour was safe.

This year I will take my dad and mom (separately) to the last two O2 shows.. good seats (Keith's side) and I hope a good performance (as StonesRick, I have told them , let's see them and they will blow your mind..). In fact I was thinking that bad shows were belonging to the past (I have been deceived by 1982 european tour), but we will see.

But I think we are very lucky to be fans of such a band... they keep on rolling after 45 years (from 1962) !! How amazing shows they produce these days... who can be compared to them ?? They keep on being smart, slim and good looking, and good music !! I have loved the title of a french newspaper last year : "... Rolling Stones are not old, they are coming from outter space.."

Maybe Keith was simply under treatment in werchter because he was ill and he will recover very quickly. I remenber the beginning of 76 European Tour : it was in Frankfurt and the newspaper titles after the show were "was it the beginning of the tour or the end of rehearsals ?". This time Keith was ill (he had a toothache and you can check on the pictures it was visible on his face.. like he was chewing something)... and the rest of the tour was excellent (according to me, it is their best tour.. just to check on youtube angie, fool to cry, hand of fate in Paris.. or wild horses in Knebworth).

By the way, I have seen Start me up in Werchter on youtube, badly filmed and bad recording but... it was excellent.

Now we have to wait and to check keith's performance next concert... I bid he will get his best level in one or two shows.

the weird thing is reading reports that suggested that in the early part of the show he seemed fine and then deteriorated as the show progressed. If true, that could suggest being under some kind of medication which gradually wore off. a lot of the talk in the early days of last autumn's tour suggested that he seemed stiff and in physical pain and that his poor condition may have been due more to being medicated due to ill-health as opposed to being stoned or drunk.

I was getting texts during the show from Mr Jimmy who was enthusing about how good it was (although he didnt mention any band members individual performance) - especially early on. So, maybe our reasons are speculative about whether he was overindulging or was just ill.

he started last autumn's leg in a poor state but seemed to pick up after a few shows. Hopefully we'll have no reason to write him off too soon.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the weird thing is reading reports that suggested
> that in the early part of the show he seemed fine
> and then deteriorated as the show progressed. If
> true, that could suggest being under some kind of
> medication which gradually wore off.


I think you are touching an important point here. Perhaps he was just suffering from heavy headaches due to his head injury last year and wasn't just completely drunken as many posters claim. I had the same impression of a Keith Richards who was slowly fading away during the second half of the show which might be caused by heavy medication He seemed not to speak, move and otherwise behave drunken but rather sedated. And by the way (but I might have observed wrong here): has he even touched one cigarette during the whole show?

"And surely not a show to win new fans for the Stones."

Mmm... Don't be absolutely sure about it, alimente. You know, people who aren't fans appreciate various good elements, things and virtues seeing the Stones live, even if the particular gig has a serious problem (as Keith probably was during this concert). What are all these virtues for us? Something usual, something imperative, just a basis.

The singularity of the fans, especially hardcore fans, lies to the fact that they're analyzing every minute of every band's member on stage. That's normal. We have strong opinion about how the things are and stronger opinion about how things should be. Anytime. For any Stone and for any song. But the so called general public is impressed, very often, by things which to us aren't so impressive anymore. Just because we are accustomed to seeing and hearing them in the last 20 - 25 years or even more.

Mick's performances, good team- work, energy, band's ability to overcome difficulties that are coming from an "off night" of a member... What do all these mean? To us, nothing special. But very often these things are making the general impression of a big audience.

The weakest Stones gig i saw last summer (i saw four) was Porto's concert. In addition, the sound was bad. But it was the gig that prompted my girlfriend, who loves a lot U2 and REM, to say "God, these old guys are the best live act i have seen..." And she have seen a lot. What about the worst Stones gig in Europe 2003? Judging from the reports, i suppose it was Amsterdam (#1). But i saw on this board comments like that: "I can't believe it... I was disappointed, but my friends said that the gig was excellent". The man is a fan, but his friends were not...

Ludwig8745 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > the weird thing is reading reports that
> suggested
> > that in the early part of the show he seemed
> fine
> > and then deteriorated as the show progressed.
> If
> > true, that could suggest being under some kind
> of
> > medication which gradually wore off.
>
>
> I think you are touching an important point here.
> Perhaps he was just suffering from heavy headaches
> due to his head injury last year and wasn't just
> completely drunken as many posters claim. I had
> the same impression of a Keith Richards who was
> slowly fading away during the second half of the
> show which might be caused by heavy medication He
> seemed not to speak, move and otherwise behave
> drunken but rather sedated. And by the way (but I
> might have observed wrong here): has he even
> touched one cigarette during the whole show?


why should he have a headache of an injury that happend last year
and by the way I really do not think there has been a head injury last year
that story is pretty lame ass and absurd
but I do not see why people start the keith bashing thing again
he played well and again most people here can not play any instruments at all
so they should not dare to judge a musician but go home and listen to their cows on their farms

Ludwig8745 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
by the way (but I
> might have observed wrong here): has he even
> touched one cigarette during the whole show?


yes - see pic

[www.iorr.org]

Well I'm betting he'll be shit hot tomorrow night... and I'm not listening to any more arguments until then ;^)

Take a look on RS.com - video of "It's all over now" from Werchter.

He doesn't look drunk or anything similar, the guitar playing is ok - except, there could be much more guitar playing...

Mmm.
Looks pretty much OK to me.
Big improvement on the rather over excited versions from that song's last outings.
Some of the old songs have sort of come full circle over the last couple of tours.More more like the original arrangements and tempos.
It's worked with some songs better than not others. It definately works with this one.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-07 23:10 by Spud.

Could just be he was a bit under the weather, maybe with a touch of the flu. He's not getting any younger and its no fun playing when you feel like that. I know.
Added to that, there is no way they can start cancelling or postponing shows on this tour, so the band have got to be up there no matter how bad they are feeling.
Keef and his various falls have been the reason for most of the cancelled shows these last few years and I would reckon he would crawl onstage on his hands and knees rather than be the cause even more chaos (not to say ridicule).