I had the same intial reaction as everyone else. I just watched the west coast feed, and I must say a brillant ending. Did you notice the guys from the restaurnt..The russinan in the Members Only coat, the guy Tony busted out who owned the sporting goods store, the two black guys who tried to kill Tony in season 2. Great moral, their is no happy ending for Tony. Does it really matter if he dies or goes to jail?

I don't think any of the seedy looking guys at the diner were from previous episodes. If your point is that they represent people from past episodes it might be a keen observation on your part.

Just got done watching it a second time and although we will never know what happened (unless there is a movie) I'm leaning towards Tony living for the following reasons.

1) No one in Tony's family that would off him (Janice etc.) was at the diner.

2) The little New York guy just made peace with Tony and wouldn't want to start another war which would be bad for business.

3) If any of the people in the diner were hitmen they would have hit Tony right away- not loiter around for a few minutes before the hit, unless they wanted to kill the whole family which is a mob no no.

4) The blank screen time seems a lot shorter the second time you watch it. It seems like an eternity the first time since you are anticipating what will happen.

The menacing people in the diner and the blank screen were just a way of Chase screwing with our heads and ensuring we will never know for sure.

As far as the episode itself goes a lot of people wanted more action but there were a lot of things to fit in the same episode. The business with New York, Tony having final scenes with Syl, Paulie, Janice, and Uncle Junior, and his own family business.

"4tlyx" posted this in another Soprano thread and I like the take.

"It sucked ONLY if there's a movie...that means it was a cliffhanger disguised as a finale. Otherwise, it was pretty clear...he was watching Meadow come through the door and didn't see it coming when he got popped in the head...LIGHTS OUT!!!

No need to see anyone's reaction or even the actual hit...it was Tony's show. We saw it the way he did and then he was gone...the last word was "stop"...it's over...

If I'm wrong and there's a movie...it was a shameless ploy for more dollars. If I'm right, it will become a legendary and forever discussed ending."

Here are 5 reasons why Tony Soprano died in the finale of the Sopranos.

1 - Godfather references - In a show that has reveled in Godfather references one can not ignore the references in the final episode. The most damning of references is Tony eating an orange when talking with Carm earlier in the episode. It is well known that in the Godfather films, the inclusion of oranges have always preceded some sort of death or tragedy. There are two more references to the Godfather in the final scene. The obvious is the creepy guy going into the bathroom; nobody expects that he came out with just his dick in his hand do they? The less obvious is the quote Tony uses when describing the onion rings. Tony says they are "The best in the city" and this is the same quote used to describe the food at the restaurant in the Godfather shortly before Michael carries out the hit.

2- Members Only - The creepy guy going into the bathroom had on a Members Only jacket. This is significant because in the FIRST episode of this season Eugene is made fun of for wearing the same jacket. In the same episode Tony rejects Eugene's plea to leave the mob and as a result Eugene hangs himself. The creepy guy in the Members Only jacket could be a relative of Eugene's seeking revenge for what Tony did to his family. This would also explain why Tony is killed even though the hit on him was called off.

3- Death Discussions - In this season Tony talks with both Bobby and Sil about death. In the boat with Bobby it is discussed that you probably don't see it coming and things just go black. This scene is also observed later in the season via flashback, further during home its significance. The discussion with Sil comes after the New York capo is hit in the restaurant. The guy didn't see it coming, nor did Sil until it was to late. Sil discusses this event as surreal.

4- Meadow Can't Park - Meadows parking problem delays her getting into the restaurant resulting in her not sitting next to Tony. If his daughter is sitting next to him, Tony probably does not die on that day as there is not a clear shot. The shooter would not risk shooting around Meadow, so her not being there is significant.

5- Abrupt Cut - Every episode of the Sopranos ends with music and the picture fading to black and then the music continues over the credits. Until now. The abrupt cut to black and silence, then holding on black and silence for a while suggests that what Bobby and Tony discussed on the boat is true. He does not see it coming and then everything is just black and silent. This must have been what is was like for Phil, talking to his grandchildren one moment and the next everything is black and silent.

It is my opinion that Tony dies in front of his family, just like Phil.

if you all remember they show tonys father being killed in front of the whole family at a pizzeria first season. he's gone and there is no movie. gandolfinin said in an interview he is releaved that he is not playing the character anymore

If you guys go to Yahoo news and type Sopranos in the search box, you will pull up an article where Steven Van Zandt is already hinting at a Sopranos movie. When asked about the ending before last nights show Steven was quoted as saying "We're not sure if it is ending". Go check it out yourself on Yahoo news- I would link the story but I'm using Msntv right now and can't. Maybe someone else can link the story here.

I originally thought Gandolfini was sick of Tony and wouldn't do a movie, but he has done Tony for eight years- it would only take him about three months to shoot a movie and the thing would be a cash cow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-11 19:52 by FrankM.

Van Zandt was on the radio this morning and that point is verified FrankM. He also said he knew for a while how this episode would end. When asked why no one leaked anything he replied that everyone understands that it is not something to be discussed. Thats just the way it is.

In an interesting twist on a talk show today someone suggested that the blank screen was the audience getting whacked. The show whacked the fans. One way of looking at it.

yes i saw the VAN ZANDT quote in the newyork post today

Tony Lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some more info on the final episode:

JOURNEY ROCKER KEPT SOPRANOS BOSS WAITING

World Entertainment News Network


Rocker STEVE PERRY refused to let THE SOPRANOS creator DAVID CHASE use his classic song DON'T STOP BELIEVIN' in the mob show's final scene until he knew the fate of the drama's leading characters. The ex-Journey frontman kept Chase waiting until three days before the long-awaited finale aired in America on Sunday (10Jun07).

Perry is a huge Sopranos fan and feared his 1981 rock anthem would be remembered as the soundtrack to the death of James Gandolfini's character Tony Soprano - until Chase assured him that wouldn't be the case.

Perry says, "The request came in a few weeks ago and it wasn't until Thursday that it got approval, because I was concerned. "I was not excited about (the possibility of) the Soprano family being whacked to Don't Stop Believin'. Unless I know what happens - and I will swear to secrecy - I can't in good conscience feel good about its use." And Perry was so true to his word, he didn't even tell his family the song featured in the finale.He adds, "I didn't want to blow it. Even my wife didn't know. She looked at me and said, 'You knew that and you didn't tell me?'"

The bold print in this article would settle the question as to the fate of Tony. Tony does not die he lives.

I can understand where he is coming from. The song would have a stigma to it if it was being played while Tony was shot. I'm not a huge Journey fan but I actually like that song and thought it fit well in this episode.

Frank Vincent (Phil) also did an interview recently. He believes Tony lives. He also explained the Meadow parking scene. He explained that it was a joke. The car she drives has some new device that is supposed to make parallel parking a breeze. Not sure it this was ever mentioned in an episoded but that's how he explains it- hence the humor in her having so much difficulty with parallel parking.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-13 08:59 by FrankM.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-13 16:04 by arizojp.

[www.littlestevensundergroundgarage.com]


IORR............but I like it!

Some more food for thought:

• That rumor that David Chase shot three different endings for the series, all of which will be on the final-season DVD? Not true, according to USA Today. But apparently there was a original page to the script in which Meadow takes her seat with the family before the cut to black. Make of that what you will.