Love this album.

It is definitely a landmark in popular music if only for the arrangements/orchestration and the wonderful album cover. I wonder why they left Strawberry Fields & Penny Lane off of this album.


Compare SGT Pepper's to TSMR and it's apparent why TSMR got panned.

I remember the summer of 1967...I was 12. My friend's brother bought this album and played it to death the entire summer. I didn't mind.

A masterpiece !!! Fixing at Hole... haunting guitar solo by George.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mathijs Wrote:
> > The difference is: the Beatles never were a
> live
> > band, they were a studio band.
>
> what were they doing onstage in those hundreds of
> shows in Hamburg and the Cavern for years before
> they ever got near a record contract?
>
> Playing cards?

It depends on where you put the emphisis. To me personally, until Rubber Soul they were a pop band, much like Michael Jackson. New Kids on the Block, Wham -you name it. They were much bigger than the music they made. No mistake here: they diserved every bit of it. But, to me -personally- the classic songs were made between late '65 and late '68, and this is the time they decided to not play live anymore and to focus and the creattional part of the music bizz, in the studio.

Of course they played their buts off from `61 to '65, but it wasn't until they shed their live legacy off when they started producing this encredible body of work.

Mathijs

yes, but you stated they were 'never' a live band, which is simply untrue

To compare playing rock n roll for hours a night for months on end in clubs in Hamburg to Wham or New Kids on the Block is nonsensical.

The funny thing I noticed today listening to it again,is that Ben Harper totally ripped off "Within You Without You" on his song "Better Way".

Ben harper did a lovely cover of Strawberry Field Forever on the I Am Sam soundtrack.

Only a couple of losers on SP to me - "Within Without" "Rita", and "She's Leaving". Many might disagree with these. Still, I don't mind listening to the whole thing all the way through. Groundbreaking.

Love "Getting Better".

"No Anchovies, Please"

Elmo the only one I might disagree with on is,Rita....Only cause, it's just a catchy, bouncy little ditty. But it was funny today when I heard within you,without you...the opening is exactly like the Ben Harper song I mentioned. Well,if your gonna steal,ya might as well steal from the best.

So true. "GB" is the perfect difference/balance of John and Paul to me.

Paul: It's getting better all the time.
John: It can't get no worse.

Those two lines really sum up these guys.

"No Anchovies, Please"

whiskey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was going to add to this thread but I cant be
> bothered, because after writing my thoughts over 1
> metre of post it wont make a scrap of difference
> to those under 55, those over 55 understand what
> Im saying and would write exactly what I am
> saying.

________ i hear you..... i was 17 when peppers 'arrived' ....

its truely a case where " you just had to be there', ,, ,,,

let me say this,,, what it sounded like then is not what it sounds like today!

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes, but you stated they were 'never' a live band,
> which is simply untrue

What I actually meant was "never much of a live band". I personally see the Beatles as a studio band, while the Stones are much more a live band than a studio band. Of course, the Stones made some brialliant albums, and the Beatles played a gazillion live shows.

Mathijs

I don't think the Stones was much of a live band either before 1968 (Rock and roll circus). Until then the PA-systems were bad and the sound was drowned with screaming girls. Artists couldn't hear themselves on stage properly.

I don't think there's a single live recording of any song of the Stones where I prefer the live version more than the studio version before 1968.

But since 1968 the Stones have been the greatest live act in the world!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-02 20:24 by folke.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > yes, but you stated they were 'never' a live
> band,
> > which is simply untrue
>
> What I actually meant was "never much of a live
> band". I personally see the Beatles as a studio
> band, while the Stones are much more a live band
> than a studio band. Of course, the Stones made
> some brialliant albums, and the Beatles played a
> gazillion live shows.
>
> Mathijs


John liked to say the Beatles "best work was never recorded", meaning "You should have heard us live in the clubs before we started making records", but this was pure bull shit. If Live At The Star Club In Hamburg, Germany; 1962 captured anything like a typical performance, then what Mathijs says is true. They were never much of a live band.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the Beatles had been around today they would
> have been performing in Las Vegas and been
> charging 1000 dollars per ticket.

...like the Stones for the past 20 years ???
Hardly new...

personally have always liked 'the early beatles' that got released in the states after they had already broken with an album or two...
obvious later achievements as writers, 3 part harmonists, and recording artists solidify their reputation, legacy hugely etc...like much of that...love the 'single' version of 'revolution' they did that early vid of...circa their latter days...But

have always, even at first, been especially drawn to recording work they did early on while still a very busy live act, before worldwide beatlemania...and maybe sometimes very shortly thereafter...even as a kid felt more sweat and blood in these tracks, tho enjoyed the other stuff too...

this earlier stuff is kind of hard to 'track,' and was from the beginning...we were being fed stuff very differently, and on a different time-table, and in different fashion from UK releases...on top of that we'd get alternate versions, and stuff that was re-mastered, or "re-eq'ued" for yank market, sometime major difference between stereo and mono versions, (sometimes something that was a double-tracked lead vocal in stereo, would be single track solo lead trk. on mono and vice versa...there were 'true' stereo and the fake 'stereo' double-mono thing they called a variety of things, 'duophonic' and several other flashy marketing type descriptions in that vein...somethings had more reverb than their original euro releases, or additional harmonica parts etc...and on it goes...

so what the heck people are listening to when they talk to each other about this is in question...this continues to this day as with that sonically inacurate and horrid (but hugely mega-platinum dung-hill beatles "1" compilation...much much worse and far less groovy than any of the 'fake stereo' things (which were very cool sometimes) from 40 years prior...so much for the sonic fidelity advancement in an audiophile direction this past half century in the brave new digital world...
i think devo would call that devolution...

good thing is beatles and stones were so huge and original and persnickety that they would break that standard forever pretty much and get artistic control of at least what songs in what order on which album got released exactly as they sequenced it and everyone in the world was hearing the same beggars banquet or rubber soul etc...

still that early period from when they were still slugging it out all the time more on the road and stage than in recording studios...has always been attractive to me...(i also liked poppy 'i want to hold your hand' ...admittedly and unashamedly...)it's got amazing energy and harmonies and spirit, cool handclaps...incredible supersonic harmonies...(dylan thought they were singing "i get high, i get high, i get high........" and got a kick out of that...and met them early on on their first trips to n.y. and got them buzzed on grass with a local writer, al aronowitz...and everyone knows their history already but...

examples of what blew mah young mind, and still holds up for me from then?

anna
mr. moonlight
slow down
baby it's you
bad boy
dizzy miss lizzie
you can't do that

u know some stuff like that...i think get's mostly overlooked...this stuff is more interesting and listenable and full of heart and soul to me than pepper or a lot of their other stuff actually...i think trying to denigrate them for not being the stones is a blind alley...and i appreciate how many peeps here take their music to heart...
in my personal life, i love them so much, but i do not listen to them every day like the stones, nor even every week or month or every few months...i do listen to aftermath and a bunch of early stones stuff all the time, all of that still means something to me in every phase of my life...

and maybe it's irony...certainly unrelated, seemingly...but in regard to commeicality aspects of beats vs. boyz...many good points all over this thread in every direction...but ironically, i will say that i've heard that obnoxious horrid tambourine drive re-mix of 'i'm free' (oh the irony) for the credit card commercial...TWICE in the few minutes it took to jot this down...

mick's voice sounds squeezed and adenoidal, the tamb drives me sick...it's just sick and slick...fun the first few times i heard it because i adore the song and the band...but it really sucks to have that song on a tv commercial; it just does...it's a sick dilution of such a heavy and wondrous recording and composition and performance by my beloved and amazing band...it just shits on itself so guys who have a quarter billion $$ or much more can get song royalties from a commercial that ruins their song?
did they think it would bring them new generations of fans or press or visibility? did they think at all? or care at all? the way we do...it don't keep me up nights, it's just a commercial...but as a deep fan on an almost spiritual level of love and what i get from their art...it's getting harder and harder to just slough it off with an amused laugh...it's like a sewer spill...a debasement...

boy i love the version from 'liver than you'll ever be'...that's an important song to me 'no bullshit no bullshit' said mick over and over live in '69...no bullshit...so come on guys.

anyway...baby it's you and that little bunch there and stuff like that, their r&b covers etc...were also what drew me to them very early on...
pepper was a defining line...what came before, and after, was better imo, but it's hard to criticise such an album...it's fun and brilliant and colorfun and alla that...it's just that i haven't reached to put it on in decades and decades and don't particularly desire to, at all...for whatever reason...
i'm a busy guy with music...it takes banquet or something like that to get me to put on an album and listen all the way through...
...tho pepper will be their most famous and beloved one i guess...it's cool...
but i don't reach for it.

if theres ever a nobel prize for internet literature, im sure beelyboy is a shoe-in. superb post, 'thru and thru'

why not post an alt serg pepper on hot stuff

the 4 yellow submarine tracks..are great..and magical mystery tour..
i listen more to them than serg p...

The best thing about the album is the words on the doll or little girls shirt in the right hand corner of the album that reads "Welcome The Rolling Stones"

I heard John Lennons comments about the album today and he talks about how people think its a concept album but to him it isn't because nothing ties everything together and he also points out that aside from the title and reprise, all the songs could have appeared on any other album.

Prior to hearing that I was thinking the same thing. To me it is a mash of songs that really don't seem to belong together.

"To me it is a mash of songs that really don't seem to belong together."

True. But I think you can say that about Revolver, White album and Abbey road as well.

I'll say this about the Beatles beginnings. They started off by playing charged, adrenalin filled sets in Hamburg clubs in front of drunken sailors and prostitutes.

The Stones started off by playing cosy gigs around Surrey and Richmond to a middle-class audience who probably got up at 7am to go to work the next day.

A little tame in comparison to this so called 'pop' group, no?

The Sicilian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The best thing about the album is the words on the
> doll or little girls shirt in the right hand
> corner of the album that reads "Welcome The
> Rolling Stones"


actually the doll's sweater/jumper has the phrase "WHK (radio) Welcome Good Guys The Rolling Stones."

WHK is a Cleveland Ohio AM radio station that sponsored both The Beatles and The Rolling Stones first Cleveland Shows...the Rolling Stones show had a female fan who fell from the balcony on the stage next to Brian Jones...(a local Cleveland tale...it is true...the Cleveland Plain Dealer and the defunct Cleveland Press archives both had pictures of the girl lying on the stage and being helped off as Brian Jones curiously looks on with an amused detachment)

Why this doll was included on the album cover?...I wish I knew.


the part of this album that always gets me is at the very end when my dog goes crazy because of the high frequency whistle and the what sounds to me like "all that work never to see Annie" repeats a couple of times....this was recorded to play after A Day in the Life when the needle of albums would play up until the label of the album...they put this in as a joke. It was taken off after after the first couple of pressings and then included again on the CD's released in the late '80s.

the shoot 'em dead, brainbell jangler!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-05 02:47 by rattler2004.

they get big extra credit from me for having dion, who preferred the stones*, as one of only two or three recording artists on that cover.





(*a full quote documented by rockman from a dion interview paste...)

....of course Bob Dylan is on the cover, too.......

Here ya go beeely.....


Record Collector



ROCKMAN

thanx a million for that rockman...just dylan and dion the only two musicians pictured there i guess...(unless tom mix, the early cowboy star was a singing cowboy star...but he might have pre-dated talkies actually)

very grateful for the re-post of that, ty. always good to see the man...
hope UK friends had a chance at 'bronx in blue' (2005) but just released in europe if i'm understanding this right...real down country soul blues...just great singing and picking...all solo...naked...hugely talented...all blues covers...stones fans would dig this i bet.
___ ____ _____

from one of the amazon user reviews:

"Bronx In Blue is an all-acoustic blues outing highlighting the music that first inspired Dion as a child growing up in the Bronx. With songs by Robert Johnson, Willie Dixon, Jimmy Rogers, Hank Williams, Lightnin’ Hopkins and Jimmy Reed, the collection is a soulful tour de force for Dion, not only in his familiar role as a magnificently interpretive vocalist but, also, as a brilliantly innovative guitarist."
[www.amazon.com]

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-31 03:37 by cirrhosis.

>actually the doll's sweater/jumper has the phrase "WHK (radio) Welcome Good Guys The Rolling Stones."

According to this article it was WMPS from Memphis:


Mary Anne May's entry in a contest to meet the Rolling Stones in 1965 ended up on the iconic Beatles cover.

'Sgt. Pepper' has Memphis connection
By Leanne Kleinmann

February 4, 2007

"It was twenty years ago today, Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play ..."

Just those words can start die-hard Beatles fans, from middle school to middle age, singing through the iconic songs on what Rolling Stone magazine called the "most important rock 'n' roll album ever made."

From the concept to the music to the cover art, "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" was groundbreaking. It's also 40 years old this year, an anniversary that's contributing to a storm in the blogosphere about exactly what Apple, creator of the iPod, is going to announce tonight with its ad during the Super Bowl.

But back to "Sgt. Pepper," and that psychedelic album cover. There are the boys, John, Paul, George and Ringo, in their Day-Glo satin military coats. There's an army of cardboard cut-outs of people the Beatles admired, from Bob Dylan to Sigmund Freud. And there, in the far right corner, is a slouching Shirley Temple doll, wearing a striped shirt that says, "WMPS Good Guys Welcome the Rolling Stones."

The sweater was the creation of Mary Anne May, at the time a senior at Immaculate Conception High School. WMPS, a big AM-radio station in town, had a contest to win a chance to meet the Stones at their 1965 concert at the Coliseum.

May, a big fan, was determined to win, so she "bought a kids striped shirt at the dollar store." Mick Jagger was wearing striped shirts a lot onstage then, she pointed out. She stitched the letters on and hoped for the best.

Her dream came true, and during intermission, she went backstage, holding her contest-winning creation. "Is this for me?" asked Jagger, taking the shirt. That's the last she saw of it.

It eventually made its way to Peter Blake, the British Pop artist behind the Sgt. Pepper cover. May found out her shirt had made the big time when someone at WMPS spotted it on the album cover in the summer of 1967.

"I rushed over to Pop Tunes to have a look," she said, but she still had to save up her money to buy the album. (She no longer has her copy.)

Tonight, Apple may announce that, at long last, the Beatles catalog will be available to download from iTunes. "When I'm Sixty-Four," "With a Little Help from My Friends," "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds," all there, 40 years later, as digital music files.

Mary Anne May is now an elementary school art teacher who still lives in Memphis. Of her shirt's brush with fame: "I have no idea where it is now. I'd love to have it back."

Wanna see my imitation of ssoul? (ahem):

[www.iorr.org]

It is absurd to rate Sgt. Pepper as a mere 'Rock' album. Sgt. Pepper was a socio-cultural event.

It dropped like a nuclear bomb and changed everything. It was the clarion call that changed 'Rock' music from a 'youth culture' phenomena to an Art form. It was the first 'Rock' album that was reviewed on the same terms [by the mainstream media] as a new Kubrick film, or a Balanchine Ballet.

And it simply captured, defined, synthesized, and distilled a [brief] moment in time unlike any other album release...ever. That moment in time passed quickly [and some say thankfully]. By the time the Stones got around to releasing Satanic Majesties, the flowers were wilting and the air had grown stale.

But the music in Sgt. Pepper was so complex and refined for its' time...the Beatles jettisoned any semblance of 'blackness' from the music and made it pure Psychedelic English Music Hall...a real gas and treat...if they had included Strawberry Fields & Penny Lane on the album it would have made it even better.
There were arguably more lasting musical statements in 1967...more timeless albums...The Velvet Underground, Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, the Kinks, The Byrds, The Jefferson Airplane, The Moody Blues, and The Who released monumental works in 1967...but none were more significant than Sgt. Pepper.

It was epochal and era-defining. And it still sounds veeeeeeeeeery groovy.

Glam Descendant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >actually the doll's sweater/jumper has the phrase
> "WHK (radio) Welcome Good Guys The Rolling
> Stones."
>
> According to this article it was WMPS from
> Memphis:
>
>
> Mary Anne May's entry in a contest to meet the
> Rolling Stones in 1965 ended up on the iconic
> Beatles cover.
>
> 'Sgt. Pepper' has Memphis connection
> By Leanne Kleinmann
>
> February 4, 2007
>
> "It was twenty years ago today, Sgt. Pepper taught
> the band to play ..."
>
> Just those words can start die-hard Beatles fans,
> from middle school to middle age, singing through
> the iconic songs on what Rolling Stone magazine
> called the "most important rock 'n' roll album
> ever made."
>
> From the concept to the music to the cover art,
> "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" was
> groundbreaking. It's also 40 years old this year,
> an anniversary that's contributing to a storm in
> the blogosphere about exactly what Apple, creator
> of the iPod, is going to announce tonight with its
> ad during the Super Bowl.
>
> But back to "Sgt. Pepper," and that psychedelic
> album cover. There are the boys, John, Paul,
> George and Ringo, in their Day-Glo satin military
> coats. There's an army of cardboard cut-outs of
> people the Beatles admired, from Bob Dylan to
> Sigmund Freud. And there, in the far right corner,
> is a slouching Shirley Temple doll, wearing a
> striped shirt that says, "WMPS Good Guys Welcome
> the Rolling Stones."
>
> The sweater was the creation of Mary Anne May, at
> the time a senior at Immaculate Conception High
> School. WMPS, a big AM-radio station in town, had
> a contest to win a chance to meet the Stones at
> their 1965 concert at the Coliseum.
>
> May, a big fan, was determined to win, so she
> "bought a kids striped shirt at the dollar store."
> Mick Jagger was wearing striped shirts a lot
> onstage then, she pointed out. She stitched the
> letters on and hoped for the best.
>
> Her dream came true, and during intermission, she
> went backstage, holding her contest-winning
> creation. "Is this for me?" asked Jagger, taking
> the shirt. That's the last she saw of it.
>
> It eventually made its way to Peter Blake, the
> British Pop artist behind the Sgt. Pepper cover.
> May found out her shirt had made the big time when
> someone at WMPS spotted it on the album cover in
> the summer of 1967.
>
> "I rushed over to Pop Tunes to have a look," she
> said, but she still had to save up her money to
> buy the album. (She no longer has her copy.)
>
> Tonight, Apple may announce that, at long last,
> the Beatles catalog will be available to download
> from iTunes. "When I'm Sixty-Four," "With a Little
> Help from My Friends," "Lucy in the Sky With
> Diamonds," all there, 40 years later, as digital
> music files.
>
> Mary Anne May is now an elementary school art
> teacher who still lives in Memphis. Of her shirt's
> brush with fame: "I have no idea where it is now.
> I'd love to have it back."

Interesting...hmmm...

the shoot 'em dead, brainbell jangler!