sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know it doesn't excuse anything. But I've always
> wondered just how invovled the actual 4 members of
> the band are in business matters and the web site
> specificly. I know if you lend your name to
> something then you should be responsible for that
> product.But somehow I can't picture Mick,Keith,Ron
> and Charlie sitting down and figuring out how many
> different ways to screw the fans.

considering the fact that Jagger admitted some years ago that he was instrumental in deciding the structuring of ticket prices (source - Forbes Magazine Nov. 2002 for anyone who's interested) I can picture it quite easily.

The Stones make decisions as a business unit, by voting etc. If the others are happy enough to let these sort of decisions go ahead or to leave them in the hands of others acting on their behalf, theyre de facto culpable as far as I'm concerned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-23 14:20 by Gazza.

As I can easily follow your line of thought Gazza, I'm trying to picture a guilty face on Charlie.... But it just doesn't work... ;-)

Jelle

guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Toronto girl,
>
> I received DVD and tour poster last year, although
> I never received anything when I first joined, the
> ticket options i have only found to be marginally
> useful as there is no real choice. If the Stones
> rhemselves are not aware of how their fanclub
> website works they should be made aware.
> I THINK WE SHOULD START A PETITION!


Wow! My hero! One of the few known living witnesses to... The DVD! Have you... touched it?

This is beyond frustating. If the the threat of a lawsuit is the only thing that worked for one fan, that is just sad. In Canada we have laws about deceptive marketing practices. Most of these are designed to target scam artists such as telephone / telemarketer fraud, so their tip line is called "Phonebusters" but they actally deal with any and all major marketing deceptions. Wouldn't it be a hoot to tip them off to this? If you believe that some of the Stones don't know what goes on, wouldn't you love to see the meeting with Cohl after that one hits the fan (no pun intended...)

Maybe there is actually a way to hit their pocket and ensure their attention. When I joined and bought tix to their concert last year, I thought that maybe they don't send the swag until after the concert, to ensure you don't just join for the DVD and ask for a refund when you don't use your ticket code. So... after the concert, I started to follow up. Eventually they sent me a refund. Why don't we all give them until Sept 1, when the concerts are over, and request the stuff en masse? If they don't or can't deliver, they will have to give refunds or they are in breach of contract... It would be interesting to see the band's reaction when fan club revenue drops. ... or maybe I just need some caffeine ...

SomeTorontoGirl Wrote:
hy
> don't we all give them until Sept 1, when the
> concerts are over, and request the stuff en masse?
> If they don't or can't deliver, they will have to
> give refunds or they are in breach of contract...
> It would be interesting to see the band's reaction
> when fan club revenue drops. ... or maybe I just
> need some caffeine ...

I do believe that the lady has hatched a plan so cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a fox...

rigth - that's it, IORRers...if you're a fan club member, then come Sept 1, or whenever the frig the tour is over, anybody with a membership who didn't get the dvd/hat combo, fires off an email thru the site, one every 24 hours and see if anyting happens...

If you are looking for charity then you have come to the wrong place. Like most other on this planet they live on profit. It's a commercial world. They are just cashing in like anybody else.

Bjornulf

They are pirates, not charity of course.

I don't read anything about charity in the initial post... Just a proposal for a fan-friendly way of raising just as much, maybe even more money... :-)

Jelle

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are looking for charity then you have come
> to the wrong place. Like most other on this planet
> they live on profit. It's a commercial world. They
> are just cashing in like anybody else.

Charity my hole; honesty comes into it. If the bargain is struck that

a) you pay me $100 and in return
b) I give you early access to tickets, a free hat and a free DVD

then dammit, i'm entitled to my hat and DVD. (I suspect I shall use neither, but it's my money, and i'll get my worth for it)

As for the other stuff about selling tracks with tickets...fine, brilliant, but if i'm honest i'll not give a fig for the new stuff, relatively speaking!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-23 16:52 by textmonkey.

Turd,

Thanks for once again bringing the tough issues to the forefront.

As an interesting side note, has anyone been following the Ozzfest 2007 concept this summer? Say what you want about Sharon Osbourne, but...she's attempting to make some changes in the concert industry right now.
Ozzfest has consistently been the top grossing festival/traveling outdoor road show each summer in the States for over 10 years. Ticket prices have escalated each year, VIP packages have been sold, etc. Last year Ozzy didn't even bother to show up at most venues. The backlash had begun.

This year, the concert is FREE. Sponsors have been lined up to front the cost of everything. In order to get tickets, you need to visit the sponsors' websites and request codes. The codes are then exchanged for tickets. Also, the new OZZY CD comes with a code good for two tickets. I'm sure that there will be plenty of on-site advertising the day of the show. Jager, FYE, Trojan, etc. But, in my opinion, so what. The sponsors get what they want, the artists get what they want, and the fans feel like they are special. Do I have a problem with sponsorship at shows nowadays? NO. Can anyone say Ameriquest, Radio Shack, Budweiser, Sprint, or Jovan for god's sake?

The industry will watch this one closely. Something must be done to keep music alive and well in the corporate world. Sharon just might be on to something here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-23 17:13 by Kurt.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are looking for charity then you have come
> to the wrong place. Like most other on this planet
> they live on profit. It's a commercial world. They
> are just cashing in like anybody else.


It has nothing to do with charity - it's a legal contract.

i mean, spending $100 on a hat and DVD is doing charity from my behalf to them^^

I am stunned and disillusioned by BV’s reaction to our comments. The tone of his observations is pure cynicism. And the substance is nothing but 4 acerbic clichés strung together, one after another, to spell screw you. Is this what it’s come down to?

BV: “If you are looking for charity then you have come to the wrong place.”

Nobody here is ‘looking for charity’, BV. Fairness, perhaps. A reciprocation of our respect and commitment. And creative ways to get the music to the fans.

BV: “Like most other on this planet they live on profit.”

Profit is one thing. The Stones are Masters Of The Universe at Profit. We genuflect at their feet at their ability to generate ‘Profit’. We know how they ‘live’, BV. But fair-mindedness and respect for / commitment to the customer in pursuing just gains [Profit] is quite another thing. The mighty Stones are perhaps lacking in that department.

BV: “It's a commercial world.”

So that justifies outrageous rapacity and stubborn refusal to honor their own art and the commitment of the fan base?

BV: “They are just cashing in like anybody else.”

This is disgusting. The contempt for the normal fan and the cynicism dripping from those words are rot to the soul. I am appalled.

A fan is someone who invest emotionally in a performer, but still has enough emotional distance to think reasonably.

A sycophant is someone for whom that emotional investment has crossed over to blind worship.

BV, your comments indicate that you have become a sycophant...and the ultimate apologist...and I am surprised, because your attitude is not worthy of your efforts and accomplishments in providing this wonderful forum for fans to communicate. And if your attitude toward our suggestions and hopes mirrors the Stones' attitude...it is a sad day, but it explains everything.

With all due respect, BV, I expected better from you.

If I am kicked off this board for these comments, so be it. I stand by them.

Diamond rings, Vaseline, you gave me disease, well, I lost a lot of love over you.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are looking for charity then you have come
> to the wrong place. Like most other on this planet
> they live on profit. It's a commercial world. They
> are just cashing in like anybody else.


There are many different ways for corporations to make profits.

A corporation that wishes to conduct business and make profits for a long, long time generally has a very good track record of treating its customers well.

A corporation that is looking only at the short-term profits it can make will, in the end, be a short-term corporation.

The Stones as a profit-making corporation have milked their fame and success very well, for 40 years.

However, how many of us truly believe they will be this successful from a profit standpoint 10 years from now? Not many of us, I'd bet. My guess is they know the gravy train is going to end soon, so they might as well ignore the "customer-friendly, socially-responsible" business model, and maintain the "rape the fans" model they've adopted for the end years of their run as a band and a corporation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-23 22:01 by highanddry.

textmonkey Wrote: SomeTorontoGirl Wrote: why don't we all give them until Sept 1, when the concerts are over, and request the stuff en masse? If they don't or can't deliver, they will have to give refunds or they are in breach of contract... It would be interesting to see the band's reaction when fan club revenue drops. ... or maybe I just need some caffeine ...

I do believe that the lady has hatched a plan so cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a fox... rigth - that's it, IORRers...if you're a fan club member, then come Sept 1, or whenever the frig the tour is over, anybody with a membership who didn't get the dvd/hat combo, fires off an email thru the site, one every 24 hours and see if anyting happens...



Hmmmm... I'd forgotten about this until the other posts about the sad little trickle of hats and DVDs started. I've received nothing, not even a notice that anything is being readied for mailing. And since I got my best tickets after the pre-sale or from eBay (at face value !!!) I really didn't benefit at all from the membership. Am starting to become somewhat suspicious of the corporate goodwill of RS.com...

Mr. Turd, I doff my cap and raise my glass in your direction. Your post was very eloquent and expressed your view point (and mine) very well indeed. Bjornulf, I have to say that I'm surprised by your response. You seem to have missed the point entirely. For the life of me I can't see what's wrong with a long time fan asking for a bit of respect from the "fan club' of a band that he obviously loves.

And to the poster who said that if you don't that like the Rolling Stones then don't buy their products that is a gross oversimplification. It really is not that simple if you love the band as Turd clearly does. The Stones could set a truly great model for what a fan club could and should be, but alas it seems the 'fan' is not foremost in their thoughts unless of course its as source of income.

no turd not a "season in hell" only affluent a%$wipes could think this. look around the world at the problems and you're crying about your little rs fan club. people threatening legal action over a ballcap? sad mate. the judge would kick your as# for bringing such stupidity to a courtroom. take a deep breath and think about what you guys are saying....

Great post Turd, very well written and some interesting and thoughtful ideas. I wish the Stones focused more on their music rather than profits on tours and merchandising, I am a fan of Dylan and Neil Young and they seem to do exactly what I'd love to see as a fan... hear evolving music and see them play in venues for the fans at reasonable ticket prices (I saw CSNY last summer for $35 a ticket, face value lawn seat..)

Someone wrote...

"That is unless they are willing to fork out big bucks to see them as tiny dots in venues with lousy sound"

This describes the stadium shows for sure..... and add the static set lists they repeat at these shows..

so , we hate michael cohl , and the guys that accept your memberships , i'd say.maybe yes , they have to do more music , we want it and need it , not the same , and i wont buy an account , the only thing you have to do is to buy tix at an early time , just the day theyre released for the general public , you just have to win that place you want , we dont even need a membership , and a ps : i hate seated shows

wipeacdc@hotmail.com
never too old or young to rocknroll!!!!!!