I was just listening to SFM from "Stripped", and Charlie's sound is amazing -- I recently tweaked my EQ settings, and the power behind the snare drum alone is like a rifle shot.

Yeah, some may complain that Charlie is mixed too loud on recent recordings, but I beg to differ.

As an addendum, I think most of us would agree that the studio version of "Honky Tonk" set the benchmark for recording drums.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-04-29 22:46 by bassplayer617.

Recording studio drums is not up to Charlie. Charlie has the attack .like few others. Live he has that great sound. I love his 70's sound even more when the snares were a little looser, and I also think Charlie might have used a slightly smaller (as in not so high) snare back then.
Totally agree about those drums on HTW. When Jimmy Miller came on board he pretty much changed recorded drums for everyone.
Charlie's use of the racktom and of the cymbals is excellent.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

ChelseaDrugstore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Recording studio drums is not up to Charlie.
> Charlie has the attack .like few others. Live he
> has that great sound. I love his 70's sound even
> more when the snares were a little looser, and I
> also think Charlie might have used a slightly
> smaller (as in not so high) snare back then.
> Totally agree about those drums on HTW. When Jimmy
> Miller came on board he pretty much changed
> recorded drums for everyone.
> Charlie's use of the racktom and of the cymbals is
> excellent.


Charlie´s drumsound is part of the more soulful sound (incl. the hooooorns)
I don´t really like much. The main problem is his snare, it sometimes" sounds
like the toms. The snare should sound crackier, like on TY´s Neighbors for example.

Interesting to note that the change in Charlie's snare sound came in tandem with the arrival of Darryl Jones. A coincidence, or a conscious decision to alter the sound palette of the rhythm section?

Seriously, early on, I sensed a move towards projecting power rather than the unique swing style that Bill and Charlie had. I have no complaints with it, as Darryl, over the years, has leaned more towards the "Stones sound", whatever that is.

That being said, I truly believe that Darryl's presence has helped make Charlie a more disciplined drummer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-04-29 23:24 by bassplayer617.

charlie is my darling; more charlie? no arguments from here...
now if we can find him a rollin' rockin' bass player heh heh

as far as charlies live sound i don't think it's ever too much at all; really don't; guess it depends on where your're sittin' and what freqencies and relative 'mix' you're catching...but they usually mix it UP and good...!!

i am not an engineer butttt
imo snare needs more 'crack' than on stripped imo; tho i love very many on that album...say more like sfm from ya-ya's?...or the snare on lmds in studio...i love the way he pounds 'em on 'live with me' from bleed...charlie is amazing...
i thought the abb drum production on rj and lmds and others real exciting..just perfect for them on those songs (and others) evovled, warm, present impactful imo...

stonez drumz are amazing; jjf even tioms had prominet snare and drum parts...always the secret ingredient and the explosive foundation and that's only part of what he's doin' there...
to hear what bill is doing in jjf along with charlie is just mind blowing forever...like a rifle shot or a full symphony...charlie charlie charlie charlie...

i'm a little suspect of the dcd or dsd or whenever they continually re-master anything over the years...
it's NOT the boyz who are doing it and it's defintionally adding EQ to certain frequencies...like the snare almost disappears in favor of a quasi-britleish tamb, on the majestic tisms...(using versions of hot rocks cd then newly super duperized mastered hot rocks cd as reference)

then again in jjf it dosne't hurt exactly; it's plenty present...a touch more of brilliance (or brittleness often) in treble frequencies...becomes a matter of taste...i vote for my transparency, but that's a relative term to engineers...get it as close as possible to the original approved masters, those mixes of those tracks...don't paint over picasson... or leave them alone...i would vote that way in about 65% to 90% of the re-mastered stuff i've heard over the years...

the temptation must be amazing for well intentioned re-masterers and engineers with an entirely different education and frame of reference from entirely different recording meda; if there's a frequency or performance nuance that some engineers covets and wants to emphasize or 'bring out' etc...
but it always scares the hell out of me...very rarely done right imo...which is scary really; cause future generations will be getting something sonically different from what was intended and not necessarily better or more present in a friendly acoustical way....
so it can work to benefit but tricky tricky and i wish mostly they wouldn't try.
i think they got the drums up really nicely in their live shows and recent recordings of same...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-04-29 23:22 by Beelyboy.

I think they've pretty much always got a good studio sound for Charlie too. I think it's really great on A Bigger Bang.

I agree with you, rebelrebel. Charlie, on ABB's opening track, just assaults the kit as if saying, "Yeah, I got sick, but now I'm healthy, and I haven't lost a thing". It's beautiful.

In the Stones' arsenal, Charlie is the heavy artillery -- quick-response support, reliable and always on target.

bassplayer617 Wrote:
----------------------------------------------------
> In the Stones' arsenal, Charlie is the heavy
> artillery -- quick-response support, reliable and
> always on target.

Ditto that. Especially the reliable and always part.

The secret behind Charlie's snaredrumsound is the RIMSHOT each and every stroke is a bloody rimshot; meaning, hitting the rim of the drum while hitting the skin, gives a tremendous attack. Also; skipping the 4th on the hihatt,makes the snare come out more, it's a simple trick but it does the job. I play in a stonescoverband and I try to imitate his drumming all the time.That skipping the 4th stroke of the beat on the hihatt is amaaaaazing; makes all the difference. For instance; sad, sad, sad. The song only kicks of because of the drumming, ALL the emphasis is on the snare.
The dark fat drumsound on stripped was too much, too deep a (wooden)snare. I think Charlie should stick to his metalLudwig snare he used for years and years.

Yes, the metal Ludwig. On YaYa's it even sounds like a slingerland to me. That is what I meant. when his earlier snare was smaller. The newer sound is a deep wooden snaresound. Since DJ is so precise Charlie really has no room to mess around. And that messing around is exactly what made it so good at times.
Wyman's style left room for Charlie. But even that changed. In 81 Bill's Bass and style starightened out; Charlie played his only tour where I did not enjoy his drumming. Carried into 89 with Matt Clifford, fast tempos.
I also agree that ABB has some of the best drum sounds in years. And what is odd about that is that it has very little DJ playing.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

mega Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The secret behind Charlie's snaredrumsound is the
> RIMSHOT each and every stroke is a bloody rimshot;
> meaning, hitting the rim of the drum while hitting
> the skin, gives a tremendous attack. Also;
> skipping the 4th on the hihatt,makes the snare
> come out more, it's a simple trick but it does the
> job.

yeh great observation and wonderful to hear, ty; have noticed that Otremendous attack dynamics and the skipping hi hate beat and quite agree.
(had NOT realized he was capturing a tad of actual rim in there but makes good sense now that you mention it and as i think back to tons of recordings...)

i would also like to mention the way his back beat is so fatttt...
like if he hung back a few hundredths of a mirco-second later, he would be off beat...he just has that incalcuable natural ability to 'swing' that fat back beat... snapping it to crack and the last minute, subliminally making your body wait for it, and release when it comes...(i realize this sounds like a sexual act...but if the foo shits...)



I play in a stonescoverband and I try to
> imitate his drumming all the time.That skipping
> the 4th stroke of the beat on the hihatt is
> amaaaaazing; makes all the difference. For
> instance; sad, sad, sad. The song only kicks of
> because of the drumming, ALL the emphasis is on
> the snare.

yes again and thank you; i'm fasinated the way he nails that down and gives it all up for the snare every shot like that POW....CRACK...POW...
(i'm decidely not a particular fan of sad sad sad for some reason; but i will listen especially and intentionally for the drum dynamics you mention ty, i love this shite...
i'd add an opinion that:
sure main empahsis is on snare or kick/snare dynamics as u say...

but a kit has just about every audible frequency from lowest to highest in it's sonic reportoire...from lowest kick and tom frequencies to highest cymbal sizzles and everything in between; a whole orchestra of sonic dynmaics across the entire audible frequency spectrum; or pretty dang close...
dunno...maybe pianos go lower and higher...(also a percussive instrument when done actually correctly with little hammer hitting, banging, caressing triads of strings close together per each note) anyway, i vascilate...so sorry.

and his work on the hats and toms, accents and punctuations and beats etc...when recorded well, or miked well live, and they mostly always are with charlie...really should be acknowledged in a complementary and sympathetic fashion in relation to king snare ripshots cracks, which are, of course, the breakfast of champions...

i think my dna is hard wired to charlies drums for decades now; i am a lost soul; or a found one.