Lorenz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just love Mathijs for his threads. You know, you
> can hate him cause he comes across quite arrogant
> and he brutally analysis the weaknesses of the
> Stones today - but he knows what he's talking
> about and some people just can't handle that, it
> seems


I'm not hating him at all. Should I hate people for having an opinion? What am I? The Al-Quada?
It's nice to read his posts. There's always good points to read there, but I just disagree with him many times. He seems to lack the ability to go to a show and let himself go IMO. And you know me Lor. I'm not a blind follower as some might think.

JumpingKentFlash

bv Wrote:
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In fact there are hardly any
> other bands worldwide, that are able to fill up a
> stadium and please so many people worldwide. May
> be U2, may be Metallica, that's about it.

and on that point, Metalica have just announced a European tour, including a date at the new Wembley Stadium:-

[www.nme.com]

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
In fact there are hardly any
> other bands worldwide, that are able to fill up a
> stadium and please so many people worldwide. May
> be U2, may be Metallica, that's about it.



Simon and Garfunkel, Robbie Williams (europe only), the Police, Geer en Goor, Red hot Chili Peppers, Bon Jovi, Shakira, Paul Mcartney, Bruce Springsteen, Madonna, Andre Rieu, and a lot more...

Geer and Goor... :-)))))

JaggerFan wrote:
"Remember, BTB was 10 years ago - they were 10 years younger. And in my opinion - the last tour without "Oh my GOD what the @#$% was THAT induced-by-aging" moments."

IMO, BTB performances were the weakest from the years 1989- 2006. I don't say, of course, that they were bad- i never have seen a bad Stones gig. But many versions sounded too "shine" to me. I prefer the "dirty" spirit of Licks Tour and ABB tour. Matter of taste, of course..


BV wrote:
"In fact there are hardly any other bands worldwide, that are able to fill up a stadium and please so many people worldwide. May be U2, may be Metallica, that's about it."

I think more bands (not only 2-3) are able to fill up a stadium, or stadiums in a few, particular countries. But they are not able to draw so many million people worldwide, during a tour. That's the difference. For example, i suppose Oasis are still able to fill up any stadium in UK, but what about the rest of the planet? The Stones and U2 are able to do this, not even Metallica i think, judging by the numbers of previous tours.

Not being a musician myself, I have to wonder, when a guitar is handed to someone by a roadie it is assumed to be in tune and ready to play. Especially true for professional band such as the Stones with well paid help. Since that is someones primary function it would be unacceptable to have a guitar handed to you out of tune.

That being said, is it difficult for guitar players to make an adjustment to tuning before the song starts? Especially since the guitar player is usually the one who starts the song.

Any professional craftsman in any profession be it musician, woodworker, mechanic, car driver, artist, machinist, etc... knows his tools and how to make them perform at their best given their own limitations. If something does not sound or feel right you notice it immediately and are usually able to correct it quickly. No excuse for out of tune instruments at all.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I went to Argentina and saw all their five shows
> there in 1998. Great shows. Fantastic shows. Among
> my best experiences. Then they released No
> Security. With two songs from those shows in
> Argentina. In order to find out which of the five
> shows were the source for these two songs, I was
> listening through complete tapes of each and every
> one of these five shows. I was surprised by how
> many errors and mess-up they had in the show
> technically. Show number four of these fine was
> the only one that was technically quite good.


w-w-w-w-w-wait a minute! Only the 30th March show (the one that was broadcast) has ever circulated from those 5 undeniably 'great' shows. Why are people 'sitting' on these recordings??? Whats the purpose of recording shows that no one gets a chance to hear? Especially ones this good. Jesus...they even play with Dylan on two of them.

C'mon - whoever taped these, ask them to distribute them.Its been almost a decade.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bv Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I went to Argentina and saw all their five
> shows
> > there in 1998. Great shows. Fantastic shows.
> Among
> > my best experiences. Then they released No
> > Security. With two songs from those shows in
> > Argentina. In order to find out which of the
> five
> > shows were the source for these two songs, I
> was
> > listening through complete tapes of each and
> every
> > one of these five shows. I was surprised by how
> > many errors and mess-up they had in the show
> > technically. Show number four of these fine was
> > the only one that was technically quite good.
>
>
> w-w-w-w-w-wait a minute! Only the 30th March show
> (the one that was broadcast) has ever circulated
> from those 5 undeniably 'great' shows. Why are
> people 'sitting' on these recordings??? Whats the
> purpose of recording shows that no one gets a
> chance to hear? Especially ones this good.
> Jesus...they even play with Dylan on two of them.
>
> C'mon - whoever taped these, ask them to
> distribute them.Its been almost a decade.

Hehe, I guess there will be a moment of truth soon.


Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

> Simon and Garfunkel, Robbie Williams (europe only), the Police, Geer en Goor, Red hot Chili Peppers, Bon Jovi, Shakira, Paul Mcartney, Bruce Springsteen, Madonna, Andre Rieu, and a lot more...

Ha ha. How come Simon and Garfunkel wasn't even able to fill up an arena in Oslo when I saw them, and they looked like there were only in it for the money? Same with Shakira. Great latino, but arena size shows only. May be she can fill a stadium in South & Central America, may be in LA, but not all over. She performed in front of 8,000 people in Oslo last week and they paid 500 NOK each i.e. 60 euro.

I am talking about BANDS. Bands. Bands!!! Bruce, Macca, Shakira, Madonna, they may all be great, but they are not bands. Big difference. And also, they do not fill up stadiums on all continents. Bruce might do it, but he do prefer to perform in smaller venues, which is great for his fans I suppose.

Bjornulf

BV wrote:
Ha ha. How come Simon and Garfunkel wasn't even able to fill up an arena in Oslo when I saw them, and they looked like there were only in it for the money? Same with Shakira. Great latino, but arena size shows only..


well the stones weren't able to fill stadiums complete in the USA and Europe in 2006. The complete second ring on Solder field was covered. The shows in the years b4 where always a complete sell out, So please get your head out of the sand and put some reality in your posts. Shakira can fill stadiums and did on her last tour, also did Bruce a few years ago.
But what's the difference in filling a stadium when your Macca or stones?
Maybe it's far more great when you can do it on your own name. I don't see Keith filling up a stadium here in Europe, well the stones didn't also last tour



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-19 18:01 by Rik.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> w-w-w-w-w-wait a minute! Only the 30th March show
> (the one that was broadcast) has ever circulated
> from those 5 undeniably 'great' shows. Why are
> people 'sitting' on these recordings??? Whats the
> purpose of recording shows that no one gets a
> chance to hear? Especially ones this good.
> Jesus...they even play with Dylan on two of them.

I was waiting for this post, Gazza!
Yes, it does sound tempting.

Why all the concern in filling up stadiums? ;-)

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> Bruce might do it, but he do prefer to perform in
> smaller venues, which is great for his fans I
> suppose.



It certainly is!

> I
> prefer the "dirty" spirit of Licks Tour and ABB
> tour. Matter of taste, of course..

I like raw energy, too. But ABB was less 'dirty' and more 'crappy/lazy'.

Rik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bv Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> In fact there are hardly any
> > other bands worldwide, that are able to fill up
> a
> > stadium and please so many people worldwide.
> May
> > be U2, may be Metallica, that's about it.
>
>
>
> Simon and Garfunkel, Robbie Williams (europe
> only), the Police, Geer en Goor, Red hot Chili
> Peppers, Bon Jovi, Shakira, Paul Mcartney, Bruce
> Springsteen, Madonna, Andre Rieu, and a lot
> more...


None of the names you mention, except Springsteen and McCartney, can sell out stadiums world wide. Of course many artists sell out big concerts, but just a very few live acts can do that almost what ever place on earth. I woud like to see Shakira sell out stadiums in Saskatchewan and Estland.

well the stones can't either, since 2005,

I think it's important to remember that the ABB tour effectively started only a year or so after the equally huge Licks tour ended . I'm not sure too many bands could sell out back to back world stadium tours on a Stones scale.

The Stones can still comfortably fill Stadiums having never been away. Most of the other bands currently "selling out" stadiums haven't really toured for years.

On the occasions that the Stones DONT sell out stadiums, its generally down to them charging more than the market will bear and/or flooding the local market with too many shows in a short period of time (which is also connected with pricing)

If the Stones were to charge the sort of money that the likes of Bon Jovi charge their fans for tickets, they could fill 100 stadiums a year, EVERY year. No question.

JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not hating him at all. Should I hate people
> for having an opinion? What am I? The Al-Quada?
>
> It's nice to read his posts. There's always good
> points to read there, but I just disagree with him
> many times. He seems to lack the ability to go to
> a show and let himself go IMO. And you know me
> Lor. I'm not a blind follower as some might think.
>


You should have seen me at the second Black Crowes gig in Paradiso, or during Iggy & The Stooges at Lowlands!

Mathijs

Spud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BV made a good point. I've NEVER heard a Stones
> performance that you could put out unedited on an
> official release. NEVER in 30 years.

New York November 27 1969, Akron/Mobile/Charlotte/Phily/Pittsburgh 1972, Brussels '73, New York June 27 1975, Fort Worth '78, Hampton '81, Atlantic City '89.

Just to name a few.

Mathijs

Why is this discussion turning into who fills the most stadiums? That has not much to do with the level of performance.
It isn't about the quantity but about the quality (imho!)


Very good to know that the Argentina shows from 1998 are circulating. (Hopefully some of it will be shared)

I think some of the point is, that if you can fill stadiums world wide with expensive ticket prices tour after tour - that's a sign of quality.

I did not say the Argentina shows were in circulation. In fact they are not. Point is the Stones are great when you experience them live at the venue. That is why they should do another tour, and another.

About Chicago, since some are spreading false info about the Stones in Chicago:

Sat Sep 10 2005 Soldier Field Chicago, IL USA 60,000
Mon Jan 23 2006 United Center Chicago, IL USA 25,000
Wed Jan 25 2006 United Center Chicago, IL USA 25,000
Wed Oct 11 2006 Soldier Field Chicago, IL USA 30,000

Four shows in 13 months selling out 140,000 tickets average 150 dollars cashing in 21 million US dollars. To call this a failure and say this band should stop touring is a big misunderstaning business wise, and disrespect of the 140,000 fans who actually enjoyed the shows.

Bjornulf

The Worst. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think some of the point is, that if you can fill
> stadiums world wide with expensive ticket prices
> tour after tour - that's a sign of quality.


Just like if you sell a kazillion CD's you've got oodles of talent. Just look at the Billboard charts.


wait a minute...

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did not say the Argentina shows were in
> circulation. In fact they are not.


Does that mean you have the tapes and aren't sharing them?
Please share if you have them.


In order to find out which of the five
> shows were the source for these two songs, I was
> listening through complete tapes of each and every
> one of these five shows.

Wow! A truly great thread. One of those that makes this board so interesting.

I couldn't jump into here before so pretty much of my opinion has already been stated here by others who can write properly in english... Anyway, here go a few random feelings...

Mathijs has had the ability of putting clear the thoughts of at least a few of us here. Maybe is the direct style, but I find most of his comments quite accurate. I find that my relationship with the band nowadays is based in a mix of feelings: I did get some boots from the last tour with hopes of feeling honest envy about those who did manage to catch them (I was one of the unlucky ones who had tickets to the Barcelona opening night back then), but everytime I listened to one of them I couldn't help thinking, "well, this was an off night for the guitarists". And thinking this one time after another led me to think how sad this feeling was: perhaps they can deliver it anymore really. I'm not talking about screens and fireworks and stages and showmanship, they are number 1 in these duties, but about the thing that made them survive 'till today: the music.

The saddest part of it is not trying to know if I want to see them again, as I will probably fall into their attracting web, but knowing that I have a high percentage of being embarrased by their playing if my friends go with me...

Stupid? Maybe, but I bet I'm not the only one who shares this fear...

[There'll be no wedding today...]

JaggerFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Worst. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think some of the point is, that if you can
> fill
> > stadiums world wide with expensive ticket
> prices
> > tour after tour - that's a sign of quality.
>
>
> Just like if you sell a kazillion CD's you've got
> oodles of talent. Just look at the Billboard
> charts.
>
>
> wait a minute...


See your point. I still belive it's impossible to have a band going for over 40 years as successfull as The Stones without quality. Look at the charts, lots of shit music there - agreed absolutely. But look at the same charts 5 or 10 years later, how many of the same shit artists are still going and selling?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-19 21:24 by The Worst..

bruno Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow! A truly great thread. One of those that makes
> this board so interesting.
>
> I couldn't jump into here before so pretty much of
> my opinion has already been stated here by others
> who can write properly in english... Anyway, here
> go a few random feelings...
>
> Mathijs has had the ability of putting clear the
> thoughts of at least a few of us here. Maybe is
> the direct style, but I find most of his comments
> quite accurate. I find that my relationship with
> the band nowadays is based in a mix of feelings: I
> did get some boots from the last tour with hopes
> of feeling honest envy about those who did manage
> to catch them (I was one of the unlucky ones who
> had tickets to the Barcelona opening night back
> then), but everytime I listened to one of them I
> couldn't help thinking, "well, this was an off
> night for the guitarists". And thinking this one
> time after another led me to think how sad this
> feeling was: perhaps they can deliver it anymore
> really. I'm not talking about screens and
> fireworks and stages and showmanship, they are
> number 1 in these duties, but about the thing that
> made them survive 'till today: the music.
>
> The saddest part of it is not trying to know if I
> want to see them again, as I will probably fall
> into their attracting web, but knowing that I have
> a high percentage of being embarrased by their
> playing if my friends go with me...
>
> Stupid? Maybe, but I bet I'm not the only one who
> shares this fear...

Hey now that i look back i agree with the bootleg part of Mathijs post. The one thing i'm not hearing is did anybody think at how the quality of the boot's these daysSUCK! for the most part,which is weird in this tech world we have today. Listen to glasgow or some of the arena show's like Minniapolis,or the Fresno DVD,and if you say they sound like sh** then you have a different ear then me,and Bruno, you are saying basically your terrified of seeing the Stones live and would be embarrased with your friend's,i'd advise you to stay home and let your friend's go so you don't ruin what could be the best concert they ever saw,with an attitude like this i would not go to a show either,and ruin your frind's gig with such negativity as your's.

Even though the Fresno DVD is very good, I still don't think it captures what went on live at the sav-mart center that night,I think it was the best Stones show i've seen. And i saw 40 show's this tour alone,which were all above par,but there were a few ragged ones in germany. What i'm trying to say is the bootleg really does'nt capture what really went on that night.

stonesfrk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even though the Fresno DVD is very good, I still
> don't think it captures what went on live at the
> sav-mart center that night,I think it was the best
> Stones show i've seen. And i saw 40 show's this
> tour alone,which were all above par,but there were
> a few ragged ones in germany. What i'm trying to
> say is the bootleg really does'nt capture what
> really went on that night.


so the show was actually three hours?