Right now, I'm listening to one of my all-time favorite songs. Side one, track one of the first CSN LP : "Suite:Judy Blue Eyes". It was an FM staple for years, and I think it defined the CSN sound.

So many great songs. I'm one of those who think that Neil Young had no business being in this group of top-notch singers, but that's just my personal opinion.

Yeah, the four-piece made it work sometimes, but I still don't know how that Canadian (whom I love as a solo artist), made it into the band.

They needed "that Canadian" because he was the only level-headed one in the band. Without him, CSN would have been toast long before. As it was, they still didn't amount to their full potential. Too many egos clashing with one another.

Uh, oh, I think I touched a nerve amongst one of our Canadian brethren. No need to get defensive, Richard.

CSN is great. CSNY is great.

i always hated that song. it came out and all you heard was doo doo doo doot doooo
dooot doo doo doo doo....it was like a bomb on the culture...they exploded onto the scene with that one...(and 'woodstock' which i liked...has genius joni mitchell made the hall of fahts in cleveland yet?)

and when they got to that slow down dramatic bridge...it just got worse...
to me...i lived for the who and the stones at the time; this is just my window on it.

i really liked judy collins elektra stuff...golden apples in the sun...all that...mighty fine...so i understood and appreciated their inspiration for the song...BUTT... when it wasn't on the radio people were playing the record and when they weren't playing the record they were all playing and singing their own happy versions...to this day when i hear that song my blood runs cold; i will do anything, crash the car if necessary, to change the station...(like the 'dude' jeff bridges almost did to get that eagles cassette out of the player in the movie)...it's just survival at this point...thankfully the kinks and the who and early zep, personal faves mott and deep purple...and another certain pack of dirty boyz were on the job...

did really love their stuff with neil tho...great voices and all that...saw nash on the very first UK hollies tour, and it was mighty hot rocking for sure and certain!! whoaaa...it was great....love the byrds, especially, and no offense intended toward crosby, a wonderfully original harmonist and open-tuning freak...but i think the byrds hit their top stride on the road AND in studio with clarence after crosby left the byrds....(how did that come about anyway, anyone know???)
i don't hate 'em or anyting...but i don't like 'em much without neil's fire and vision, personally speaking. and i'm particulary grateful for steve and dave in that mick taylor finally gets to look skinny (comparatively) and i'm a little sensitive about rick raylor slams.
and that 'our house' oh god...this is artfully done but dreadful dismal hippie downer puffy bloat to me. and it was EVERYWHERE all the time...'the hobbit' was like the bible or something...urgghhhh....
so it's more than the song, which i don't care for admittedly...it was such a huge inescapable hit and mark on the culture...it was like a bad virus...
JUST a freakin' opinion, ok??

Personaly,I love 'em more when they are with Neil.I only wish they would start touring Europe for change.

Beelyboy Wrote:
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> i always hated that song. it came out and all you
> heard was doo doo doo doot doooo
> dooot doo doo doo doo....

whoa - for a second there i thought you were describing the stones' heartbreaker!

no, that one's only a nightmare in retrospect.


JUST a freakin' opinion, OK?

I find Neil's best solo output to be better than anything CSNY or CSN have released.Deja Vu is one of my favourite albums,though.However it is not better than After the gold rush and Everybody knows this is nowhere.

Beelyboy, you sometimes have this nasty tendency to come off like a "rock critic". Be careful with that ---

if I were your editor, it would simply boil it down to this :"I..really love their stuff with Neil".

Remember, man, you are NOT getting paid by the word here. Perhaps you should send a resume to "Rolling Stone". Most of their writers are also fluff specialists.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-15 02:04 by bassplayer617.

bassplayer617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beelyboy, you sometimes have this nasty tendency
> to come off like a "rock crtitic". Be careful
> with that ---

you sometimes come off as a "moron who can't spell." and there's nothing wrong with offering critique - i thought thats what we were here for!

> if I were your editor, it would simply boil it
> down to this :"I..really love their stuff with
> Neil".

which is why you are not an editor . . .

> Remember, man, you are NOT getting paid by the
> word here. Perhaps you should send a resume to
> "Rolling Stone". Most of their writers are also
> fluff specialists.

beely boy offers some of the most incisive writing here on the forum. the people that are writing "fluff" are the j. geils-loving setlist-defending troglodytes such as yourself!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-15 02:01 by Forty Niks.

look i have my own way of expressing myself...i don't need am employment counselor or an editor...
if u think my posts are boring or too long please don't read them...
if there's something you'd like me to edit out...just ask nicely.
that goes for all members...i don't want to fight...if i don't fit in with your groove, i'm happy to go...come up with a consensus right now and i'm gone...here's your fat chance...jesus, say something on topic and stay out of my hair...
...but wouldn't it be easier for you to just skip my horrifying inappropriate posts? or write the moderator and complain?
or be polite...i don't put words in your mouth...u can afford me the same courtesy.

JUST a freakin' opinion, OK?

wow, thank you nik.

Oh, my, you ARE some sensitive folks. I made the necessary correction to my earlier post.

To Forty Niks and Beelyboy : neither of you are Americans, correct? I feel some hostility here. If it's just a dislike towards THIS particular American, that's fine. I tend not to mince words. I apologize if my brusqueness offends you.

OK I will weigh in since you invited Beelyboy. I somehow find your posts remind me of days past when Micksbrain weighed in on subject after subject; it is not that I do not believe you are allowed an opinion, it just seems that you post your opinions in langauge that is antagonistic and denigrationg to anyone that does not agree. Reading this and your anti Patti Smith posts, it is apparent that you really do not think much of anyone that is not in agreement with you, as time and time again in your Smith posts you question any one's vision that cannot see through to the pretentiousness you see in her. I was a dual language major in undergraduate school and still read all the time, so wonder how anyone that might praise the original lyric "mad bull has lost its way" could also then call Smith a pretentious faker.

Anyhow, I do apprecaite your opinions. I do enjoy reading how different people feel about different things, but I tire of people that , like Micksbrain used to do, tell the rest if us that if we are not in agreement we are blind unenlightened dolts. You might find more discussion and feel fewer jabs if you could tone down the rhetoric. You are alllowed an opinion, so are we. You are not stupid for having yours, nor are we.

bassplayer617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right now, I'm listening to one of my all-time
> favorite songs. Side one, track one of the first
> CSN LP : "Suite:Judy Blue Eyes". It was an FM
> staple for years, and I think it defined the CSN
> sound.
>
> So many great songs. I'm one of those who think
> that Neil Young had no business being in this
> group of top-notch singers, but that's just my
> personal opinion.
>
> Yeah, the four-piece made it work sometimes, but I
> still don't know how that Canadian (whom I love as
> a solo artist), made it into the band.


One of the things that I've always enjoyed about CSNY is Neil's "within and without" status in the band. I can't think of anything like it elsewhere in rock'n roll.

On the one hand, you're absolutely correct: the original pristine CSN sound of tracks like the "Suite" and "Guinnevere" had nothing whatsoever to do with him. There's a perfect intimacy to that first CSN album and an audible and very complete connection between the three principals.

When he came on--only weeks after the release of "Crosby, Stills & Nash"-- Neil brought a very interesting dynamic, both musically and personally. His Buffalo Springfield history with Steve Stills ran deeper than what Stills had with either Crosby or Nash and the Stills/Young electric guitar meltdowns reflect in thrilling ways the fraternal bond and competition between them. At the same time, the folkies Crosby and Nash loved Neil the songwriter and he was delighted to use their golden voices to sell some of his loveliest work--take a moment and listen again to the vocals on "Country Girl."

Neil also helped Crosby and Nash go places they might not have otherwise. "Almost Cut My Hair" is the most famous example, but check out Crosby's "Cowboy Movie" (aka the "Breakup of the CSNY Gang") as well. Or, in Nash's case, "Better Days" and the whole 1973 "Wild Tales" album, which features Neil's "Harvest" band, the Stray Gators, on every cut.

But the CSN format was the one that was ultimately the most workable from the mid-70s until this decade's reunions. And the trio made a good case for its compeletness with the career-best singing on the 1977 "CSN" album. Again, a sound that had no place for the lanky Canadian.

The three tours they have undertaken as a quartet (2000, '02 and '06) have been phenomenal. Stills, in particular, seems to absolutely shine for having his old sparring partner on stage. They open with ten electric tunes, break and return with ten or so acoustic songs. Then, after a slight pause, they bring it home with another ten heavyweight rockers--"warhorses" is the favored term in these parts. Pretty cool to see four ugly old folkies who sing like angels and rock like a mofo.

Bassplayer: I have a sweet memory of those guys from 2000 and it probably speaks to your point pretty well.

It was at Neil's annual benefit for the Bridge School--a program for kids with severe developmental challenges that was started by Neil and his wife Pegi. The show is always packed with huge stars like McCartney, Beck, Petty, Pearl Jam, Springsteen, The Who, Willie Nelson, Metallica, Chili Peppers, Sonic Youth, Jerry Lee Lewis, Wilco, Emmylou Harris, and many, many more.

It's a huge deal and there's only one rule: everyone plays acoustic. You can't believe how cool the Red Hot Chili Peppers or the Foo Fighters sound unplugged. And there isn't any stage set--just kids from the school in their wheelchairs hanging out with their parents behind the musicians onstage. It's my favorite event of the year.

Anyway, CSN often winds up taking the stage with Neil as the headline act. In 2000, they opened with an acoustic four-part "Cinnamon Girl" before taking on a bunch of great tunes. And as their set reached its climax, Neil set his Martin down, walked behind CSN and took a seat with the kids to watch his buddies.

Stills launched into "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" and the place went berserk. By the time it was over, the entire crowd was on its feet and singing away in the cool California night--Neil Young among them. Just for a moment, he was simply the first Crosby, Stills and Nash fan among 20,000 delighted equals.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-15 19:27 by Rev. Robert W..

bassplayer617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, my, you ARE some sensitive folks. I made the
> necessary correction to my earlier post.
>
> To Forty Niks and Beelyboy : neither of you are
> Americans, correct?

LOL . . . i think we both are, actually.

I love CSN with or without Neil. Neil is also one of my favorites and is simply a genius. He enjoys always doing different things, solo, Crazy Horse, CSN, or whatever. To me CSN are all lucky that Neils plays with them sometimes. David Crosby always says at shows that Neil is with them that Neil can come and go when he pleases because they are lucky to play with one of the best song writers. And I agree completely.

Saw CNSY over the summer and they were great, playing most of Neil's new album and pretty much a variety of everything they've done.

bassplayer617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, my, you ARE some sensitive folks. I made the
> necessary correction to my earlier post.
>
> To Forty Niks and Beelyboy : neither of you are
> Americans, correct? I feel some hostility here.
> If it's just a dislike towards THIS particular
> American, that's fine. I tend not to mince words.
> I apologize if my brusqueness offends you.

i was born in the u.s.a. i've been in this country all my life...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-15 04:08 by Beelyboy.

haven't seen them in over 20 years so I can't say anything about their state now other than they come off as pompous jerks(CSN) when I hear them speak.

.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-18 14:49 by Beelyboy.

Neil Young has more talent in his little finger than CS & N combined.

They made one great album without him, and a few more all with lots of filler.

CSN&Y--" Four-Way Street" is IMHO one of the greatest live recordings in history and a must own. The jam on "Carry On" is worth the $ of the lp.

Hey bassplayer617:

A CSN performance of "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" from one of the Bridge School shows is up on iTunes. Search for "The Bridge Collection." Can't remember if it's on Vol I or Vol II, but it's pretty sweet.

I've seen them both with and without and Neil gives them a harder edge and
keeps them on their toes; without they seem to get a little sloppy and sappy

short&curlies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CSN&Y--" Four-Way Street" is IMHO one of the
> greatest live recordings in history


Parts of it are good/great....but Still's ad-libs during his solo at the piano, the "America's Children" jam are just horrible...laughable. Haven't played it for years but I cringe here just thinking about it.

Rev. Robert W. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey bassplayer617:
>
> A CSN performance of "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" from
> one of the Bridge School shows is up on iTunes.
> Search for "The Bridge Collection." Can't remember
> if it's on Vol I or Vol II, but it's pretty sweet.

Thanks for the recommendation and your earlier info, Reverend.

BTW, I hoticed that the "sugarmegs" site has many CSN and CSNY shows listed. I'll check out some of the "CSNY2K" shows.

A further note to Beelyboy and Forty Niks:

I really came off like a jerk yesterday. That was the alcohol talking. I am so sorry for that --- I was having a "belligerent drunken hillbilly" evening. Today will be a "happy drunken hillbilly" evening, and I'll try to keep my own verbosity to a minimum.

Now listening to the Jan 24, 2000 show on sugarmegs. Yes, Neil is pushing for the harder-edge, and it's great. The second song is "Southern Man". It almost seems like a push-pull match between him and Steve Stills. This is turn pushes Crosby and Nash to greater heights. It's beautiful.

oops, double post --sorry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-16 01:51 by bassplayer617.