Forty Niks Wrote:
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> adotulipson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Memory Motel is without doubt one of their gems
>
>
> i doubt it.


What the F*CK is wrong with you ?

Seems as if you're just trying to stir the pot . Grow up

-------------------------------------------------------
> Ket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>Black
> > and Blue is by far the bands best effort
> between
> > Exile and Some Girls.
>
>

this is the way i feel too..

nice to be in agreement...

... the problem????????

Forty Niks Wrote:
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>
> There are, exceptions of course to the songwriting
> problem: who can forget Fool to Cry, Crazy Mama,
> and one of my all time faves, Hand of Fate?
>
> Who's with me? Memory Motel lovers need not apply
> . . .


Whats' so great about those songs you mentioned? To me they're some of the weakest Stones' lyrics from the '70's. I think "Fool To Cry" sucks and "Crazy Mama" is just a straight ahead rocker with some meaningless lyrics hidden in there somewhere. What exactly is "Crazy Mama" about? "Hand of Fate" has a nice riff but the lyrics? I never thought Mick was convincing on "Hand of Fate", singing as a man who had shot another man over a woman and was on the run. "Memory Motel", "Hot Stuff", and "Hey Negrita" are pretty good but not great.

disclaimer: The above text is only my opinion.

Haristone Wrote:
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>
> after leaving the stage at Norfolk 1972, after
> playing one of their best concert ever, (and all
> of them agreed) the stones suddenly realized they
> have to record everything, just to remember, just
> to HAVE A PROFFESSIONAL RECORDING - i think Bill
> have a lot to do with that.


I think you're either thinking of a different concert or my copy of Norfolk '72 is mislabled because its' one of the worst concerts I've heard from '72. As I remember, there were many bad mistakes.

Glass Slide Wrote:
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> stoned_in_dc Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Wait... Haristone...did you work at Pathe?


unhappily, no. I would have loved to work at pathé when the stones were recording. you can believe me. i'd put "pirate" microphones everywhere, and video cameras.

one of my close friend, a big stones collector, is living in paris, and one day he told me the stones are here. so i spent 1 week around the studios, listening the sessions OUTSIDE. it was possible to listen because the sessions were during the night time with nobody around and no cars running in the streets.

I really like that record, probably one of their best ones and the most underrated in my opinion.
Excellent job by Harvey Mandel on his tracks!

Keep on rollin'
Gangster

Great record, great indeed. The production is different but I love it. Lack of material yes and a shite song (Cherry oh baby). The rest is great and a nice document of Stones 1975-76. Many of these songs worked great live. Hot stuff live 1976 is one of their best live performances. No real hit songs but a nice EP - feel. Love the cover. Love that period.

Haristone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JaggerFan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Black and Blue suffers from one thing - Cherry
> Oh
> > Baby (worst cover - Charlie can't even drum
> reggae
> > yet). Other than that, it's scorching!
> >
> > Songwriting?????
> >
> > This has been my beef with all post Undercover
> > stuff - all those LP are self-concious and
> > insincere, but from 1997 on, the songwriting
> took
> > a lazy turn for the worst!!!
> >
> > Black and Blue has got 4 AMAZING fun, sexy
> tracks;
> > Hot Stuff, Hand of Fate, Hey Negrita and Crazy
> > Mama, two good ones, Memory Motel, Melody, and
> one
> > which I don't care for too much but it was a
> hit
> > nonetheless - Fool to Cry.
>
>
> this album suffers from one thing : too short.
> could have been a 2LPset.
>
> keep in mind : the rejected songs are : worried
> about you - slave - munich reggae - english rose -
> start me up



My thought too, it should have been a double album just like Exile, a document of their mid 70s, no need for real hits like on Let it bleed and Sticky but more a solid rock album.

And their best videos are from this record.

Not their best, but my favorite. I was 15, had just had a break-up with my first real girlfriend, and my parents were getting a divorce. Heartbreak City Limits. This album helped me pull through.

"Memory Motel" is my all-time favorite Stones song ("Under MY Thumb, a close second). I don't like "Cherry" and "Negrita" is so-so. The rest is tooooo coool!

terrible opening track....probably their worst ever opening track.

unfortunately this stuffs the album up alot.

Hand of Fate is good as is Memory Motel, the rest if ok...

Glass Slide Wrote:

>
> Interesting that you knock Memory Motel and love
> Fool To Cry.

Yes, Niks is interesting in that he seems to enjoy music of LESS quality and hate the good stuff.
MM comes to mind as well as the whole album of GHS.
shit, the guy hate the J Geils Band.

yet he LOVES hand of fate and fool to cry

don't get me wrong, I love those tunes also... I just think they are of the same songwriting school that forty diks is talking about.

L33 wrote:

terrible opening track....probably their worst ever opening track.

Maybe you should pick up a copy of the Undercover CD.

Who are the musicians at Jagger's solorecordning of Memory Motel (The official black album/Anybody seen my baby)?
Jagger on piano, I suppose. Guitar, too?

Black & Blue is great. Great songs and great playing. It's a bit short, but it's still an album.

JumpingKentFlash

JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
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> Black & Blue is great. Great songs and great
> playing. It's a bit short, but it's still an
> album.


TRUE Kent

If I have one gripe about the album... it is that it is so short

RadioMarv Wrote:
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> TRUE Kent
>
> If I have one gripe about the album... it is that
> it is so short


Yes, but that's the only thing I could put my finger on as well (Although some might say that "Cherry Oh Baby" sucks, I really dig that track). The album is awesome and though a little short it simply kicks ass. BTW: David Bowie's "Station To Station" is only six songs long and that kicks ass too.

JumpingKentFlash

I always have been a Hot Stuff fan; great funky riff

Luke33 Wrote:
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> terrible opening track....probably their worst
> ever opening track.
--------------------------------------------
I'm in complete agreement about the opening track. Cherry Oh Baby and Hey Negrita shouldn’t be on record...should have been left for jamming/practice sessions.

IMO, 4 other tracks are really really good. .. I love Fool to Cry. Melody is an interesting idea but sounds slightly unfinished and could use some work.

KSIE Wrote:
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> I took a lot of grief for saying this once before,
> but...
>
> The problem with Black and Blue is Keith is
> Missing-In-Action. Too much Jagger.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great point. Keith is really missing in action. Jagger is the biggest problem the Stones have had. Wish we could get rid of Jagger and have more *weaving* from Keith and Ronnie as we did on Dirty Work. There's too much Jagger during the second stage of the recording of EOMS - which included "Tumbling Dice", "Loving Cup", "Let it Loose" and "Shine a Light"

There's also too much Jagger on one half of LIB and Beggars Banquet and 80% of Sticky Fingers, GHS, IORR, B&B, Some Girls, ER, Tattoo You, UC, Steel Wheels, VL, B2B and Bigger Bang.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-02-24 17:48 by wanderingspirit66.

there is no problem with black and blue..

its a great album

No "problem" here except CHerry Oh Baby

following above threads I agree:

that B and B would have been even better if longer -add Slave, Worried AY.

that COB could have been replaced with one of the reggae out-takes with more potential-Jah is not dead, Come on Baby

B and B is more of a "feeling" or mood type album (like exile) than a collection of brilliant songs. it usually sounds best late at night or in the early morning hours.

production values especially drum and guitar sounds are excellent

I don't think its too short, the limit back then was 45 minutes for vinyl, Black and Blue runs almost 42 minutes. During the 70's and 80's almost all the acts released albums with 7-8-9 songs on it.

Tumblin_Dice_07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Haristone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > after leaving the stage at Norfolk 1972, after
> > playing one of their best concert ever, (and
> all
> > of them agreed) the stones suddenly realized
> they
> > have to record everything, just to remember,
> just
> > to HAVE A PROFFESSIONAL RECORDING - i think
> Bill
> > have a lot to do with that.
>
>
> I think you're either thinking of a different
> concert or my copy of Norfolk '72 is mislabled
> because its' one of the worst concerts I've heard
> from '72. As I remember, there were many bad
> mistakes.


Maybe it was Charlotte instead of Norfolk. It's one of these. I have to listen to them. You're probably right.

Listen to Black and blue; It has a wide dynamic range. Wide stereo seperation. The sounds are crystal clear and warm. Everything is right up front. Some Girls on the other hand sounds like it was recorded on some cheap 4 track. To much compression with everything sounding like it was recorded on the same day. I still don't what all the fuss is with Some Girls. Give me Black and Blue any day. Great leads, great hooks, great ryhthm licks.

If you have the vinyl of black and blue look at the inner sleeve it shows track by track how it was recorded lots of over dubbing and looks like a lot of stuff was Overdubbed , look how Charlie's drum parts are overdubbed and recorded Keith on bass and lead guitar on Crazy Mama, so he did contribute even though being in a heroin fog. I don't listen to it much got to be in the mood for it

Too much Jagger not enough Keith input

drummer_dude

> There's also too much Jagger on one half of LIB
> and Beggars Banquet and 80% of Sticky Fingers,
> GHS, IORR, B&B, Some Girls, ER, Tattoo You, UC,
> Steel Wheels, VL, B2B and Bigger Bang.

How the presence of Jagger is an issue on any Stones album befuddles me immensely. To be a Stones fan and to complain about Jagger's prescence makes absolutely no sense at all.

You want just Keith and Woody weaving?
I simply do not believe you.
This sounds like a typical "Closet-Crush-On-Mick-Overcomensator" to me.

Haristone Wrote:
---------------------------------------
>
> unhappily, no. I would have loved to work at pathé
> when the stones were recording. you can believe
> me. i'd put "pirate" microphones everywhere, and
> video cameras.
>
> one of my close friend, a big stones collector, is
> living in paris, and one day he told me the stones
> are here. so i spent 1 week around the studios,
> listening the sessions OUTSIDE. it was possible to
> listen because the sessions were during the night
> time with nobody around and no cars running in the
> streets.


That's an awesome story/experience.

When did that occur?

JaggerFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > There's also too much Jagger on one half of LIB
> > and Beggars Banquet and 80% of Sticky Fingers,
> > GHS, IORR, B&B, Some Girls, ER, Tattoo You, UC,
> > Steel Wheels, VL, B2B and Bigger Bang.
>
> How the presence of Jagger is an issue on any
> Stones album befuddles me immensely. To be a
> Stones fan and to complain about Jagger's
> prescence makes absolutely no sense at all.
>
uhhhh... maybe I wasnt sarcastic enough..... ;-)