Here's the thing about Black and Blue: the Stones have never SOUNDED better on record. (the guitars, drums and vocals, really are excellent throughout). I think the mix is fantastic as well. However, the songwriting isn't good enough to do the playing/producing justice. I fear that the album ended up as a missed opportunity.

There are, exceptions of course to the songwriting problem: who can forget Fool to Cry, Crazy Mama, and one of my all time faves, Hand of Fate?

Who's with me? Memory Motel lovers need not apply . . .



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-02-23 22:46 by Forty Niks.

I agree with you Forty Niks.
It has the best production of any stones albums, very in your face sounding. I feel the songs that are there have a pretty good sound to them, but don't quite hit where they should. I have never really gotten my head around hot stuff, but do find the rest of the album worth a listen start to finish every now and then.

Ive often thought this myself. I think its probably the best sounding record theyve done, but its not their best material, although I like it.

Let It Bleed is also mixed really well, but not as crisp sounding as Black N Blue.

but then, when you think about it, Rock N Roll isnt supposed to be crisp & clean. It sounds good when its a bit muffled and scratchy.

It's a better album than it gets credit for,it has definately grown on me more and more over the years I even like the dross disco stuff.
Memory Motel is without doubt one of their gems

adotulipson Wrote:
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> Memory Motel is without doubt one of their gems


i doubt it.

i always felt that way about black and blue, it just didnt have enough good songs on it.

its only rock and roll went the other way, an album with poorly produced songs, that could have been a lot better, cos there was some well written stuff on that album.

The opening of Hey Negrita absolutely smokes.

Always been a fan of BaB--agree with you Nik--excellent production (though I rate Tattoo You higher in terms of production), great playing, great songs.

Interesting that you knock Memory Motel and love Fool To Cry.

I agree. A few really great songs as mentioned but they did not have an album worth of material. So they stretched out several songs to be sooooo long. Even Memory Motel which is a great one too would have been better if shorter than this 7 minute version. Hey Negrita, Fool To Cry & Hot Stuff have extra minutes added to fill the space. And Melody is basically a space filler to make it to 40 minutes.

I think it is seriously underrated album, it is diverse and has more guts to it then GHS or IORR. Ok Fool to cry was a poor choice as a single but I don't hate it. I love Hey Negrita,Hot Stuff,Memory Hotel and Melody. Crazy Mama and Hand of Fate are very good rockers. The only bad track on it is cherie oh baby. compare it to IORR where you have alot of soft fluff 'Til the next goodbye',Time waits for no one and if you really want to be my friend. I cant stand any of those tracks. Black and Blue is by far the bands best effort between Exile and Some Girls.

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Interesting that you knock Memory Motel and love
> Fool To Cry.


why? FTC is a heart-wrenching soul ballad with GREAT vox from Mick and, i think, some really wonderful lyrics. (actually, the lyrics on most black and blue songs are quite good)

MM, on the other hand, is unlistenable schmalz. Keith's vocals are abysmol and it contains some of the worst lyrics of any stones' song: "she's got a mind of her own, and she use it well." Puhleez!

Hey ho yeah Black & Blue the sound is
crash-hot and it's songs are a reflection
of the black music they were listening to from that decade...

Kinda like the Out Of Our Heads for theeeee seventies.......



ROCKMAN

Black And Blue lacks the focus of the Stones best work but nevertheless it is good. The album's production suits the material perfectly and while i agree it is very crisp sounding i don't agree that it's too clean. The Stones were going through a period of not being able to write inspiring songs (apart from the ballads,perhaps) yet i still believe the songs found here have a great feel even if it's mainly due to the riff/ rhythm.
There are undoubted shortcoming to Black And Blue but this doesn't prevent it from being a fine album all the same.

Forty Niks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glass Slide Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Interesting that you knock Memory Motel and
> love
> > Fool To Cry.
>
>
> why? FTC is a heart-wrenching soul ballad with
> GREAT vox from Mick and, i think, some really
> wonderful lyrics. (actually, the lyrics on most
> black and blue songs are quite good)
>
> MM, on the other hand, is unlistenable schmalz.
> Keith's vocals are abysmol and it contains some of
> the worst lyrics of any stones' song: "she's got a
> mind of her own, and she use it well." Puhleez!


I LOVE Keith's vocals on that!
Fool To Cry always struck me as kind of....syrupy.
I cannot defend the lyric you quote, though--fair point on that.

I took a lot of grief for saying this once before, but...

The problem with Black and Blue is Keith is Missing-In-Action. Too much Jagger.

KSIE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I took a lot of grief for saying this once before,
> but...
>
> The problem with Black and Blue is Keith is
> Missing-In-Action. Too much Jagger.


I have always really liked Black and Blue, but I understand why you might say that.

Hey what about Fool To Cry from Static....It's goooooooood...





ROCKMAN

Never heard it--is it fair to assume it is less produced then the official release?

Forty Niks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the thing about Black and Blue: the Stones
> have never SOUNDED better on record. (the guitars,
> drums and vocals, really are excellent
> throughout). I think the mix is fantastic as well.
> However, the songwriting isn't good enough to do
> the playing/producing justice. I fear that the
> album ended up as a missed opportunity.
>
> There are, exceptions of course to the songwriting
> problem: who can forget Fool to Cry, Crazy Mama,
> and one of my all time faves, Hand of Fate?
>
> Who's with me? Memory Motel lovers need not apply
> . . .

If Black And Blue suffered, it was because of the rudderless state the band was in at the time. Jagger was in full jetset mode, Keith was steeped in his heroin addiction, Wyman and Watts were pissed off. And they were - for the first time - bereft of a virtuoso to ground them and fire their creative engines. The album was effectively a public rehearsal for a new guitarist. That said, it was a damn good rehearsal - half of its eight songs are great to superb. Only Cherry Oh Baby and Hey Negrita suck n blow respectively.

Rockman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey what about Fool To Cry from Static....It's
> goooooooood...
>
> [i9.photobucket.com]
> IMMERBOY%202/GLIMMERBOY%203/GLIMMERBOY4/STATO.jpg


That's a great boot. The full length I Think I'm Going Mad does it for me. Always.

LOVE the cd,one of the best it has got all type of music,funk,blues,rock and jazz too.

Forty Niks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glass Slide Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Interesting that you knock Memory Motel and
> love
> > Fool To Cry.
>
>
> why? FTC is a heart-wrenching soul ballad with
> GREAT vox from Mick and, i think, some really
> wonderful lyrics. (actually, the lyrics on most
> black and blue songs are quite good)
>
> MM, on the other hand, is unlistenable schmalz.
> Keith's vocals are abysmol and it contains some of
> the worst lyrics of any stones' song: "she's got a
> mind of her own, and she use it well." Puhleez!


the lyrics to MMare not meant to be taken seriously a lot of Stones country songs are tounge in cheek ,thats what makes them work.

Forty Niks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> adotulipson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Memory Motel is without doubt one of their gems
>
>
> i doubt it.


I don't!
The best vocals from Mick on a studio-record!

Never heard it--is it fair to assume it is less produced then the official release?

Basic track with no overdubs.....no strings...Keith on lead...

STATIC is a must have boot .... of studio material...



ROCKMAN

the Rolling Stones' broad horizons are really showing on this album, and i love it
from that astonishing very first sound to the lovely cantering riff that ends it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-02-24 00:03 by with sssoul.

Rockman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey what about Fool To Cry from Static....It's
> goooooooood...
>
> [i9.photobucket.com]
> IMMERBOY%202/GLIMMERBOY%203/GLIMMERBOY4/STATO.jpg


maybe better than the finished track, the vocal is 100 % emotion.

BnB is an album i always liked a lot.

the reason why it sounds so good is very simple : there is no useless instruments. there is minimum effects like reverb and delay.

I DON'T SAY THERE IS NO EFFECT. i say they are minimal.

I'd really like to speak good english to explain.

i'll try.

when you have a multitrack recording and have to make a final mix, it's very easy to think "we recorded 5 electric guitars, so let's use all of them"."and i'll put a lot of reverb on my vocals, it sounds richer".

on the other way you can say "hand of fate needs only two guitars. one in each channel will be perfect". so there is a lot of space for every instrument.

and if you add minimal reverb and delay on vocals and instruments, suddenly you feel the band is playing in front of you.

and the songs are very very good. this album have something special.

HOOORAY good words Mr Hari-STONE.....



ROCKMAN

I love it, best production, best cover, best photo.

A wonderful album - have always loved it. My copy was given to me by a girl I was at college with here in London and she was 'good friends' with MJ at the time. It's a great sound, superb cover and hugely underrated.

Biggest problem on B&B is it is too dam short. Not sure why they couldn't of added a couple of more songs. Also Crazy Mama is a good rocker, but put at the end of the album it got lost. Would have been a great opening song. Negrita is a great riff, but not really a song, & Too Rude is a tough listen.

Black and Blue suffers from one thing - Cherry Oh Baby (worst cover - Charlie can't even drum reggae yet). Other than that, it's scorching!

Songwriting?????

This has been my beef with all post Undercover stuff - all those LP are self-concious and insincere, but from 1997 on, the songwriting took a lazy turn for the worst!!!

Black and Blue has got 4 AMAZING fun, sexy tracks; Hot Stuff, Hand of Fate, Hey Negrita and Crazy Mama, two good ones, Memory Motel, Melody, and one which I don't care for too much but it was a hit nonetheless - Fool to Cry.