Surprised to find this much info at Wickipedia....

[en.wikipedia.org]

Originally Posted by: Erik_Snow
Kansas City 1981,
with Taylor in the background
(no credits)

ty erik via schillid; what a wonderful thing to see them all together like that!
just wonderful. really moves me, honestly. do miss bill in the shot...but we know he's there tcb.
everyone looks great and into it. loverly.

I should'nt have used the word terrible, but compared to their previous work they were pretty bad imo.

I should'nt have said terrible but compaired to their previous work ghs and iorr were very weak.

Rocky Dijon nailed it! Great summary! I think he also got tired of being pushed around by a jealous Keith. On one hand, Keith was probably thrilled to have a talent like MT on board but when he relized the " kid" wanted to stretch a bit, spread his wings, things got UGLY! And yes, he was worried the decadence of the band at that time would end up taking him down too!

Awesome picture! never saw it before.
I also forgot that MT was with Mick & Keith at the '89 R&R Hall induction.

Any other details? How many songs (& which songs) did MT do with the band? The entire show?

What's the bootleg called? With this photo...it should be called "Have You Seen MICK TAYLOR Standing In the Shadows?"

keithfan64 Wrote:
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> When he left, the band had released two terrible
> lps in a row. It would'nt be unreasonable for him
> to believe they were finished creatively. Most
> bands never come back after their initial run.
> Maybe it was strictly a musical desicion.


That's complete rubbish, GHS and IORR are excellent, classic records, even if they weren't as good as any of their Golden Era records.

bigbang wrote: he didn't feel his contributions were appreciated or acknowledged... Keith was always raggin' on him for being a "lead" guitar player... I think he had hurt feelings that just built up... that, and he thought the group were a bunch of f ups and he was better than that...
**********************

Can you imagine if Mick jagger would have used Mick Taylor for his solo projects??

Hey Ket..thanks for the MT quote....never saw it before.

That's a good point about Mick J not inviting MickT to contribute to his solo stuff.

There was excellent chemistry between the two Micks, live and in the studio.

Hide Your Love is just a delight.
Jiving Sister Fanny. Travelling Man. MickT gave MickJ a "shot of salvation" or deliverance, or whatever. On the back of that we got Sway and Moonlight Mile.
MickJ knew how reliable. as well as inspirational, MT was. Who else (honestly now) could have taken TWFNO to heights that Jagger could not have envisaged - or provided the bass line which DEFINES Jagger's track Fingerprint File.

Goat's Head Soup is a Rich album. Rich vocally, rich in moods and rich in textures, melody, style...... It isn't distinctive for it's 'rockers', such as they are, (Star Star is a pastiche, a Panto). GHS soup dares to boldly go where no Stones album had gone before! And in a mature and confident way, unlike Satanics (which is charming in spite of and because of its flaws).

Some Girls existence depended totally on punk and disco. A nice second wind and a great 'breath of fresh air' but it's an album of its year and rather stuck there. Not so genuinely home-grown and authentically organic as the 1973 produce - in which Keith was far from absent - but not his former dominant force. So that made for an interesting change - giving others the chance to flex.


I know that MickJ doesn't like to "look back" but there is probably something deeper that won't let him corroborate with MickT again.

Big Shame.

On a totally different topic..........

it surprises me more that BW and Charlie Watts havn't teemed up much (hardly at all) since 1992, (the year the Stones died!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-01-20 22:52 by Four Stone Walls.

Beelyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WMiller Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Beelyboy Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > ...but i also don't see ron, tho i may be
> > naieve,
> > > as snaky or trying to faciliate maneuvering
> his
> > > friend mick taylor OUT...ron was already a
> > world
> > > class star with two seminal and
> groundbreaking
> > > bands, and i dont' think perceived to be
> > > insecure...history shows us rod wanted to
> keep
> > > him, and they are mates who did well together
> > on
> > > so many rod solo albums too...and do
> > occasionally
> > > get together...
> > > a leetle more spice for the goats head soup
> > > here...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> [www.guitarworld.com]
>
> > l
> >
> > In the current issue of Guitar World, a Rolling
> > Stones special issue, one of the interviews is
> > with Ron. I haven't read them all yet, but
> there
> > are 5 or 6 reprinted interviews, mostly with
> > Keith. Anyhow, in Ron's, he claims that his
> > manager got a call when Brian died inquiring as
> to
> > his interest in the job but his manager said he
> > was happy where he was. He found out years
> > later.
> >
> > I don't know if he's embellishing though. He
> also
> > said something like he had to wait 6 years, but
> he
> > finally got his dream job.
>
>
> well if that's a true story; it's probably not
> nice of his management...
> then again...we had it all...
> there would have been no faces; no ron
> participation in the absolutely groundbreaking
> 'truth' and 'beck-ola' albums...
> these catalogs are among the most precious and
> important in rock history imo.

I dont quite believe that story myself, but anyway..

We still would have had Truth(released 1968) as is, and possibly Beck-ola(released 1969). I think Beck-ola was recorded spring 1969 and they were done as a band by the time of Woodstock.

,,, geezzz,, taylor is more famous now than he was then....

yeah i read his wife talked him into leaving.
Plus he had a huge drug problem.
I think he may have felt the band was nearing it's end and that he'd leave now before he died from drugs! Plus the song-writing credits hurt him.

Basically he's a blues virtuoso guitarist who probably wanted to go on that bluesy virtuoso direction.

I'm glad a few others prefer Goats Head Soup to Some Girls.

I believe Taylor lacked the personality for a lasting career with the Stones - he was too shy and unassertive. Musically however he was magical and irreplaceable.

sweet neo con Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Awesome picture! never saw it before.
> I also forgot that MT was with Mick & Keith at the
> '89 R&R Hall induction.
>
> Any other details? How many songs (& which songs)
> did MT do with the band? The entire show?
>

According to Wikipedia, "the recording sessions Goats Head Soup were abundant with outtakes, two of which, "Tops" and "Waiting On A Friend", would surface on Tattoo You in 1981, and feature Mick Taylor on guitar - my guess is he would've appeared for one of these?

Rocky Dijon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1.) To join the Jack Bruce Band and stretch out
> musically and, ideally, be recognized as the
> Greatest Thing Since Eric Clapton.
>
> 2.) To avoid succumbing to heroin addiction and
> dying way too young and being recognized as the
> Saddest Casualty Since Brian Jones.
>
> 3.) To receive recognition (i.e. songwriting
> credits and royalties) for what he honestly
> believed were his musical contributions and avoid
> being, well, Brian Jones.
>
> 4.) To avoid feeling like a third wheel with
> Ronnie Wood hanging out, playing, and writing with
> his bandmates with increasing regularity.
>
> Please note these are my opinions based on what
> I've read. I am not Mick Taylor nor have I ever
> had a conversation with Mick Taylor. I do however
> revere him as a bloody fantastic guitarist and
> rock's equivalent of McClean Stevenson.


Very good summary of 'excuses'. But there is one that is not mentioned very often, because, as the years go by, and The Stones are there with the sun and the air... namely:

5.) Mick Taylor, among very many others at the time, were quite convinced that the end of the story of The Stones is quite near. Keith was in horrible condition in 1974,and not the living legend we know NOW him to be. Jagger was said to be thinking of replacing him, but in reality, he most than anyone else knew that it is not possible. Jagger was also thinking about a solo career. These were internal problems, but there are external ones too: The Stones were quite old band then, and still considered sort of pop music for the young. There were not very strong indications that they would not be laughed out of the court very soon. And what did they do: openly retro-naming album It's Only Rock'n'Roll was not promising anything 'fresh' to hold the top position. Now taking the other four mentioned reasons, one could say that it was even a reasonable move for Mick Taylor to leave the ship before it will sink. Of course, he wasn't 'quite' accurately able to predict the future... but who could, in 1974?

About predicting the future... I think that is something Jagger and Richards never do. Both of them - like Bob Dylan - live day by day, and "hope for the best", while doing the best they can. And in a long run they are lucky bastards One of their strange qualities.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-01-20 12:11 by Doxa.

sweet neo con Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> Can you imagine if Mick jagger would have used
> Mick Taylor for his solo projects??
>

Well, Jagger actually had that in his mind. Namely, there is an interview of Jagger done most probably during their 1973 European Tour where he talks about his future and the future of the Stones. He says that The Stones will release a new album that will consist of one side of new studio material and one side of live material (a proto idea for It's only Rock'n'Roll album probably, and they probably knew how 'hot' they sound at the moment). And then he said that he will make a solo album too, and that he will use people like Mick Taylor and Billy Preston in it.

We have to keep in mind that the Goats Head Soap sessions were just behind, and they were very fruithfull as far the co-work of two Micks goes. And seemingly Jagger was happy with his work with Billy Preston too. That is to say that most likely he seemed quite tired of Keith, and was looking for new 'partners'. It will be interesting how serious Jagger was about his solo plans. I have only heard of them in that particular interview (that was released, among others, in a bonus CD in one Stones historic a few years ago).

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-01-20 12:27 by Doxa.

jagger may have wanted Taylor on his solo projects, but Taylor never would have done it...i get a feeling he dislikes Jagger alot more than Keith...Perhaps he blames Jagger for the songwriting credits...

I think there is only one true reason. He was burned out by living 5 intense years with the stones. Of course junkies tend to be a little paranoid as well. But that is only a consequence.

C

Luke33 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jagger may have wanted Taylor on his solo
> projects, but Taylor never would have done it...i
> get a feeling he dislikes Jagger alot more than
> Keith...Perhaps he blames Jagger for the
> songwriting credits...


I don't think so. I remember reading Taylor saying that he is okay with Keith nowadays (for example, was invited to contribute to Talk Is Cheap), but that Jagger has never forgiven him (for leaving them). Perhaps his departure didn't hurt Keith so much as did Jagger. The way Jagger remembers Taylor in his 1995 Rolling Stone interview tells a lot how much he admired Mick's melodic guitar work, and he almost sounds like missing him! But you don't let down people with ego of that size... and Mick Jagger's ego is maybe the largest in the business.

Anyway, it is not the case that Taylor sets the conditions for a possible co-working, It's the other way round, as can be seen in the quest appearance of Taylor that never happened in London 2003. You don't @#$%& with The Rolling Stones.

- Doxa

If you have access to the bootlegs recordings from the Live Aid rehersals with Keith, Ron and Bob Dylan (sometimes found with U2 bootlegs as Keith were working a bit with them) they are actually talking on the subject Mick Taylor.

Is it possible that Keith used Mick Taylor on TALK IS CHEAP to get under Mick Jagger's skin?

Is it more likely that Jagger or Richards locked MTaylor out of writing credits? If I had to guess I'd say Jagger.,,

Keith must be ok with MT....he used him on a solo project and has joined him onstage at MTaylor gigs. Jagger seems to admire him (in interviews). Ron Wood and MT have collaborated. So..i guess it's not out of the question that something could happen in the future.

Other than legitimate griping about writing credit.......there really wasn't a burning of bridges (nastiness with irrepairable damage)... was there?

Calling Mick Tayler as virtuoso is a bit over the top. He was good, but not THAT good.

Considering Goats Head Soup contains Winter and IORR contains Time Waits For No One and that both albums sold millions of copies and reached the top of the charts worldwide, I can't think Mr. Taylor felt those albums were dreadful.

Considering he was awarded songwriting credit for Ventilator Blues on Exile but did not receive credit on the above two songs from his two last albums with the band, I could understand if Mr. Taylor felt used and unappreciated.

Considering Ronnie Wood became virtually inseparable from Jagger and Richards during the IORR sessions and received an inspirational credit on the album as well as having Jagger and Richards contribute songs to Mr. Wood's first solo LP, I could understand if Mr. Taylor's feelings of discontent escalated.

Add to this everyone from Mike Oldfield to Herbie Mann to Jack Bruce wanting to work with him and I can understand why his wife encouraged him to move on.

I don't dislike Ronnie Wood as a person or a player. I have and enjoy his solo albums, but interpersonal relationships are complex and if anyone saw the writing on the wall as far as his diminishing future with the band, it was Mick Taylor. I don't honestly believe he would have contributed more had he stayed. He would have been sidelined just as Brian had been and just as Ronnie Wood has been since the Dirty Work sessions ended. The Stones are about Mick and Keith. Everyone else needs to know their place. Bill Wyman has said this in interviews when he was still in the band. Hell, Jagger and Richards even do their best to put the other down from time to time. It is a constant struggle for dominance with only odd moments of seeming harmony. Don't think Jagger won't feel threatened by Keith's comic cameo appearance in POTC3. Their egos frequently get the better of them. Keith's bitchy remark about "Dogshit in the Doorway" is a good example of this as was his labelling Ronnie's song, "Pretty Beat Up" as "Dogshit" during the Undercover sessions. Jagger's bitchy lyrics on Primitive Cool are more of the same. Phenomenal talents do not always equal the nicest people to be around.

Keith was trying to steal his girlfriend and he didn't know how to swim.

re the questions of what Mick T played with them in 81: there are varied opinions.
he wasn't plugged into the soundboard so having the boot doesn't help much.
someone here was at the show and has stated what he recalls, but i don't remember what it was;
here's what Nico's fine site says (although if memory serves the good Mathijs differs with this opinion):

1981 14th December: Kansas City, Missouri, Kemper Arena
Under My Thumb/When The Whip Comes Down/Let’s Spend the Night Together/Shattered/Neighbours/Black Limousine/
Just My Imagination/Twenty Flight Rock/Going to a Go Go/Let Me Go/Time Is On My Side/Beast of Burden/
Waiting on a Friend/Let It Bleed/You Can’t Always Get What You Want/intros/Little T & A/Tumbling Dice/
She’s So Cold/Hang Fire/Miss You/Honky Tonk Women/Brown Sugar/Start Me Up/Jumping Jack Flash/Satisfaction)
Note: With special guest Mick Taylor on guitar. Probably from Black Limousine up to
You Can't Always Get What You Want (unsure).

Put Ronnie on bass and bring back MT. They need five Stones to look complete.

[thepowergoats.com]

Lidda has point 6. when you are whacked out on heavy trank for most hours every day, and everyone else around you is, "decision-making" and the big picture are not on a par with, say those made by a military commander.

Steen G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you have access to the bootlegs recordings from
> the Live Aid rehersals with Keith, Ron and Bob
> Dylan (sometimes found with U2 bootlegs as Keith
> were working a bit with them) they are actually
> talking on the subject Mick Taylor.


-From what I can remember from these recordings ,they all agree on the fact that they admire MT as a guitarplayer, but I think it was Dylan who said that he couldn't rely on him. One day MT could be great, and the next he was just a shadow of himself, (probably due to his drug/alcohol problem).

I have that bootleg. Dylan doesn't say that on my copy.

Dylan quite liked his first solo album - particularly Broken Hands.

They all agree that MT couldn't keep a band together. But actually MT has kept good bands going since the end of the eighties. Things are becoming fewer and further between these days, sadly. And actually Taylor was bandleader on Dylan's '84 tour. From what I've heard he did a fine job. Infact the drummer from that tour still guests with him, (I think).

I rate A Stones' Throw as higher than A Bigger Bang and better than VL. It's better than nearly all Dylan's eighties work and I prefer it to Time Out of Mind. A Stones' Throw has good songwriting, arrangements and some exceptional guitar-work. It also does not suffer from being too long - it's well-rounded and has no filler.

The sadness is that Taylor hasn't done more of his own recording, (with or without a Jagger).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-01-20 22:55 by Four Stone Walls.