compared to 2005 when there were a few NEW 1972 shows surface, and a few different sourced and upgraded shows, what happened in 2006 ?
Very bad compared to 2005....

Have we got to the end ?

What will 2007 provide ?

ROCKMAN

We also got Glasgow 06, Saitama, Rio and Buenos Aires in SB,
new Lakeland 1978 and...well, it wasn't that much apart from the ABB tour,
with the exception of Steel Wheels outtakes....and 2 previously unavailable songs from Texas 72 on DVD.

more concerned with the lack of ABB shows to have surfaced. The amount on this tour that havent done so to date is unprecedented - - especially with regard to the Anerican shows.

The obvious conclusion to draw is that the audience is so far removed from a rock n roll audience than before that a lot of would-be bootleggers either arent interested or have been priced out of the shows.

very true gazza,the recorders I know in North America were priced out of the stones market, they are die hard music fans and go to a lot of concerts, for one stones show(in which most have already attended many times in the past) it knocks most of them out of 4-5 other shows...also, no need to pay that much for Licks 2...same old same old stuff

Exactly as Gazza describes I believe! This is what has happened in my case as I was priced out with regards to the FALL 06 leg! The fact that the closest venue was still over 1K miles away didnt help matters either;-)

Without starting a ticket-prices-thread again...the people at my own age, whom I've been to concerts with in the past, couldn't afford seeing Stones in 2006.
And as Gazza wrote, many of the guys who record shows, aren't Stones-fans like us, who will see Stones no-matter what the cost is.

Its not just the fall leg - theres still a helluva lot of gaps in the 2005/ winter 2006 legs as well

Well, finds like the Steel Wheels outtakes in such fabulous sound quality outweights some bad or at best mediocre sounding audience recordings with well-known material for me (one of those fabled 1971 shows with Wild Horses or Can't You Hear Me Knocking is a different thing though!). Maybe it's a sign of the times that when everybody is expecting to download everything for free, some people are a bit hesitant to release their secret stuff. In the past great stuff was "released" by pure coincidence (people sitting on stuff without even remembering they have it or not realizing the historical value - until someone told them), or fuelled by the possibility to make an interesting trade or even to make some good bucks by selling a tape to bootleggers.

Concerning ABB tour recordings - in times when a good number of shows were made available on Dime or other sites withing a couple of days, more and more people become a bit lazy when it comes to recording shows ("why bother, I can download them in a couple of days so I'd better enjoy the show!"). Trouble is, the more people quit recording, the lesser shows will pop up. I already know four former tapers who more or less quit or just record smaller, more exclusive shows because they think that the big shows will be available "anyway". Last but not least, the Stones' artistic credibility through large portions of the tour (unimaginative setlists - which got better during the last US leg, though -, mediocre or weak guitar playing by Ron and/or Keith - which got better during the last US leg, too!) did not help to excite certain people to go through the hassles of recording a show.

re: tapers & ticket prices etc...
************

that explains the lack of AUDIENCE recordings....but how are soundboards usually obtained? Do technicians really risk their jobs by leaking soundboard tapes/cds?
These must come from venue technicians...not Stones crewmembers...right?

re: audience recordings....what equipment is usually used? pocket DAT recorders? I've attempted such tapings...but never at a Stones show...didn't want to risk getting tossed out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-01-07 02:34 by sweet neo con.

retired_dog -- You're probably right regarding the attitude among bootleggers that "all the shows get recorded anyway, so why should I bother". That's the downside of the abundance of downloadable boots we have nowadays. But I think the positive side is that a lot of people are keen to record and share because they know it will reach a lot of people, who in turn respond with their "thanks" and other discussions. In the old days (i.e. only a few years ago), the only possibility was snail trading single copies with friends and fellow fans and possibly producing records for resale.

Imagine if you would actually get hold of a '71 Stones show in good quality containing Wild Horses and CYHMK, knowing that you're the only active trader in the world who has it. As long as your loyalty towards your source(s) doesn't hold you back, you'd have a gas reading people's responses on all the torrent sites and Stones forums like this one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-01-07 03:03 by LieB.

LieB - it was not my intention to criticize the free downloads on torrent sites and Stones forums (how could I?)! But unfortunately not everybody shares our attitude towards free circulation of this stuff.

all correct with the above comments.
Don't know what the buzz is if you are holding a recording that only a handful of people know about ?!

Perhaps 2007 may unearth some quality (and rare) items !

The Steel Wheels Outtakes alone make this a great year for new boots.



Then again, I don't care at all for live boots.

I was wondering if the plethora of recordings from 97/98 had anything to do with the Licks & ABB offerings. It seemed to me at the time (correct me if I'm wrong) that Vinyl Gang released about 20,000 different versions of every show of the entire Bridges to Babylon tour. Seemed like overkill at the time and now I'm wishing there was that kind of drive for the current tour. I've already spent well above what I set as my limit for concerts this tour so I have no comment on the ticket prices aside from "it sucks"...

It seems to me that the 06 Fall tour had very few shows recorded. Maybe the tapers got burned out and thought it'd just be the same as the 05 shows. That or people did infact tape these 'lost' shows and the recordings just turned out horrible that they weren't released. I have no facts to back that up, just speculation.

On the plus side, I think this tour has brought about a big jump in trading through torrents. Downloading lossless audio is a dream come true for audiophiles and collectors alike. I know there's a great deal that hasn't been uploaded yet but with so many longtime collectors jumping on the broadband bandwagon it can only get better from here. Even people who aren't very tech-savy are getting in on torrenting. That alone tells me that I have hope for building a collection gradually, even if only through the net. Honestly I'm just glad there's a thriving Stones-fan community online.

-Drake

I'm actaully sure that some shows were recorded, but the people who did it aren't exactly bootleggers. They record it for their own home use. It's true that 2006 was a piss poor year by the standards were used to. Of course new stuff, in the vein of 1972 shows, can't keep pooping up. So that's OK. But many dates from last year weren't recorded. That's really bad.

JumpingKentFlash

It's kind of absurd, listening to the bootleggers whining about ticket prices... When we all know they've been making big bucks on their recordings for ages. Actually, my sympathy lies with the fans, not the bootleggers. And let's just hope the Stones will release a lot of live material from the ABB tour. They've taped every minute of every show. Both audio and video. Yes, I buy almost every bootleg I can come across... but the quality is often terribly disappointing. Still, the bootleggers get their bucks, and where does one complain? Exactly. that's why I prefere official releases. What if the Stones released a box: "12 shows from the Euro 2007 tour: The BIGGEST BANG". I'd buy it...

On the other hand the "making money on boots" days are over now. We get them freely shared over the internet.

JumpingKentFlash

So what do you need to record a show? My girlfriend for example, owns a voicerecorder/mp3-player, which records interviews pretty well. Not only understandable, but also very clear, much better than a phone conversation. But an interview is one person speaking in a protected environment: a closed room. I can imagine that picking up the complex sound of a 13 person band, from a PA more that 20 meters away is a very different thing. (Solution: go back to a band of 5??? ;-) )

Such an MP3-player can be taken into the stadium (past security) without any problem. But what would be the result, quality-wise?

So, if we'd say: for a decent recording you would need a special (recognizable!) device, (minidisc-recorder, digital taperecorder, recording device with flash-memory) probably with a (small) microphone, how do you get it in? Is it worth the risk if your main purpose is seeing the Stones as often as you can afford, which is a maximum of 2x per tour, or 4 in a long tour as this?

And, where do you keep it to get the best result? In your hand above your head ;-)? In your breastpocket (Which Stones-shirt has a breastpocket???)? The microphone on the board of your shirt? Will anything you say be recorded too? How can you best prevent this without being silent during the show?

Which devices can be tracked during use? Only ones which use radio signals I suppose, so not the ones with a microphone on a wire, or simple voice-recorders.

To make answering these question easier, maybe we should take an example. The Vredenburg-show in 2003. Very nice quality shortly after the start of the show, some audience-noise, but without becoming a point of iritation. What would you think: what kind of device was used, how did he/she get it past security, and where was the device kept during recording?

I'd really like to read some of your insights on the matter of recording shows.

Jelle

PS> Either in Paris or in Amsterdam, don't remember which, we were not searched AT ALL.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-01-07 14:26 by sluissie.

Rockman Wrote:
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> [i9.photobucket.com]
> IMMERBOY%202/GLIMMERBOY%203/Halcyon.jpg


What is the "Naked" bootleg? That one I am not familiar with...

Tralala Wrote:
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> It's kind of absurd, listening to the bootleggers
> whining about ticket prices... When we all know they've been making big bucks on their recordings for ages. Actually, my sympathy lies with the fans, not the bootleggers

uh....most people who record shows arent 'bootleggers' - ie, they dont record the shows for future personal profit by releasing them on factory pressed CDs. In general, they're fans who record them to be traded and distributed amongst other fans and collectors. Big difference. The dissatisfaction on this thread is coming from fans who are frustrated because certain shows havent been recorded/distributed. Unless youre insinuating that those of us who are are selling them for profit?

It only takes one person with the right contacts to make a bootleg. And its very often NOT the person who recorded it, as those people have no way of preventing others who get a recording from doing so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-01-07 18:09 by Gazza.

Gazza hit it on the nose. There's a big difference between tapers and labels. Most people who record do it as a hobby. Makes for a wonderful souveneer.

-Drake

Drake, I don't get your remark about VG releasing several different versions of BtB shows. They come up with a few upgradings now and than but usually not from stadium shows starting at the SW area because just not much demand for those.

For high quality recordings you need a SONY MZ-RH1 or MZ-RH10 HI-MD minidisc field recorder. You also need a high quality set of stereo cardioid microphones and a bass rolloff battery box.

DAT has been replaced by HI-MD as the preferred recording gear today. The DAT recorders are too bulky (and have large amouts of metal content) to get into most venues with strict security and metal detectors. Plus the reliabilty of DAT tapes and transports has been suspect for some time. SONY discontinued all DAT recorder manufacturing in 2006.

Forget MP3 voice recorders and Ipods. They may be the preferred mediuum for listening to music but they are not "serious" recording devices. Pure JUNK for recording!

I would be willing to bet: Most people are unaware of HI-MD minidisc or have a total disdain for the format. Thanks to Ipods replacing SONY Walkmans the past 5 years. The HI-MD technology is out there: Just open your eyed and ears!

Don


sluissie wrote:
So what do you need to record a show? My girlfriend for example, owns a voicerecorder/mp3-player, which records interviews pretty well. Not only understandable, but also very clear, much better than a phone conversation. But an interview is one person speaking in a protected environment: a closed room. I can imagine that picking up the complex sound of a 13 person band, from a PA more that 20 meters away is a very different thing. (Solution: go back to a band of 5??? ;-)

Don the only thing I would disagree with you is cardiod mics with a bass rolloff filter. IMHO, binaurals get a much cleaner sound as they recieve the full sound spectrum whereas cardiods cut off the top and bottom frequencies. Also, bass rolloff kill frequency. I'd much rather do that type of work in post production. Its easy to remove freqencies but you can't ever bring back lost audio. Cranking the bass on those types of recordings just provides rumbling, no kick. Just my opinion.

Kees, I was exagerating greatly Vinyl Gang's releases from Bridges. I just thought they released a recording from every show of the entire tour. And then remasters and 2nd editions of shows that surfaced in better quality (IE: Rio in mono, then again in stereo). At the time I remember them putting out some pretty mediocre material but the fact that they released so many shows was very cool.

-Drake

When you are in a noisy crowd: cardioid mikes are the way to go. Binaurals pickup 360 degrees of sound. So the guy "screaming" 2 rows behind you will ruin your recording. So will someone coughing. Bass rolloff is adjustable from (none) 0hz, 69hz, 107hz, 160hz, 195hz. The amount of bass rolloff is up to the recorder: taking into account the venue and the band. To each his own.

Don


drake wrote:
Don the only thing I would disagree with you is cardiod mics with a bass rolloff filter. IMHO, binaurals get a much cleaner sound as they recieve the full sound spectrum whereas cardiods cut off the top and bottom frequencies. Also, bass rolloff kill frequency. I'd much rather do that type of work in post production. Its easy to remove freqencies but you can't ever bring back lost audio. Cranking the bass on those types of recordings just provides rumbling, no kick. Just my opinion.

I'd rather get the full sound spectrum than sacrifice sound quality for a directional mic. The yelling and crowd noise is gonna be on there anyways. I'd rather focus on getting as much of the PA as possible, rather than how much of the crowd I can get rid of. If I'm not close enough to record with binaurals then I don't take my equipment with me. You're right about the bass rolloff being adjustable but I'd still rather do that type of work in post production so as to not taint the recording.

I'm with you on HiMD. If slimmer DAT recorders had been made I'm sure more people would still be using them. Minidisc is such a stealthy format... really hard to top.

-Drake

highanddry asked

What is the "Naked" bootleg? That one I am not familiar with...

Tokyo Dome - 22 March 2006 - Halcyon



ROCKMAN

don't forget the ,,1965 rsg tapes .on hot stuff this year..

not on (yet)on any bootlegs..

vancouver Wrote:
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> don't forget the ,,1965 rsg tapes .on hot stuff
> this year..
>


Indeed. That was an excellent find.