From Shidoobee:

He/she is now BANNED on Shidoobee -
[p081.ezboard.com]

How this all played out -
[p081.ezboard.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-20 09:32 by bv.

In case you don't remember...this was the guy who had a post "I'm a 15 year old boy, and I wondered if some of you could send somme Stones-concerts for free...as I have no money".
He did this at several Stones-boards, and after a few weeks, he started selling these shows he recieved.

yikes - the same "kid" who claimed he hasn't got a CD burner
and is too impoverished even to offer to send blanks for a trade -
and he's selling the bootlegs he got for free from kindhearted people?! [cgi.ebay.co.uk]
that is mighty low!

Yeah, but ebay should clobber him soon with a suspension......

ablett Wrote:
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> Yeah, but ebay should clobber him soon with a
> suspension......


EBay have double standards, don't you know? They allow sellers to sell "How to Scam EBay" type books (they're not called that exactly, but pretty close) on their site - publications which tell people how to rip off unsuspecting bidders on their own site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-20 13:15 by Nikolai.

triplelicks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Shidoobee:
>
> He/she is now BANNED on Shidoobee -
> [p081.ezboard.com]
> m8.showMessage?topicID=2331.topic
>
> How this all played out -
> [p081.ezboard.com]
> m8.showMessage?topicID=2323.topic



Entertaining reading. I appreciate that many Stones fans are genuine people who would happily help out a 15 year old kid, but, you know, that "I'm a poor impoverised whatever ... brother can you spare 100 Stones boots" is an old trick.

a funny little story on shidoobee but I can't understand them people.

it's bad manners to copy and sell something received for free, but it's bad manners as well to tell the presentee how to get along with the present. I detest both.

to go even further and to ask for a return of a present...oh God, that's a no-no my Mummy told me decades ago!

I get the feeling that always the very same people overacts when something's happening which exceeds their high moral appeal. they scream when somebody offers CDrs on a Stones-site and they file complaints when somebody else sells bootlegs on Ebay. so much spare-time on hand and nothing else to do, hm?

cheers

hm. to me duping people in return for their kindness to a stranger is worse than "bad manners".
shidoobeans have a highly developed sense of community that may look kinda cheesy to people who don't get into it,
but this isn't a matter of theoretical morality - it's a real live thriving system they have going over there,
based on mutual trust and good will and generosity, and i can relate to their resentment of someone coming along
and preying on that for his own personal profit (and his being so glaringly stupid about it just adds insult to injury).
being persistently deceitful toward the same people you're asking forgiveness from isn't too beautiful either.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hm. to me duping people in return for their
> kindness to a stranger is worse than "bad
> manners".
> shidoobeans have a highly developed sense of
> community that may look kinda cheesy to people who
> don't get into it,
> but this isn't a matter of theoretical morality -
> it's a real live thriving system they have going
> over there,
> based on mutual trust and good will and
> generosity, and i can relate to their resentment
> of someone coming along
> and preying on that for his own personal profit
> (and his being so glaringly stupid about it just
> adds insult to injury).
> being persistently deceitful toward the same
> people you're asking forgiveness from isn't too
> beautiful either.

I know exactly where you're coming from, and I wholeheartedly agree. On here - in Hot Stuff - Urbansteel has to be one of the most selfless, generous people around. Ask for a rare track - or even, in one instance, the first volume of the Voodoo Lounge box set, and 9/10 he'll post it. I think the good people on Shidobee have the same generosity of spirit - probably thought they were "passing the torch" of Stones fandom down to the next generation. Unfortunately their generosity and trust was abused by a scheming little c.unt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-20 18:21 by Nikolai.

silkcut1978 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a funny little story on shidoobee but I can't
> understand them people.
>
> it's bad manners to copy and sell something
> received for free, but it's bad manners as well to
> tell the presentee how to get along with the
> present. I detest both.
>
> to go even further and to ask for a return of a
> present...oh God, that's a no-no my Mummy told me
> decades ago!
>
> I get the feeling that always the very same people
> overacts when something's happening which exceeds
> their high moral appeal. they scream when somebody
> offers CDrs on a Stones-site and they file
> complaints when somebody else sells bootlegs on
> Ebay. so much spare-time on hand and nothing else
> to do, hm?
>
> cheers

Point is that the guys on Shidobee probably thought they were helping a genuine 15 year old fan. What 15 year old has money to buy boots these days, unless they're trust fund kids or sells crack? They probably remembered when they were 15 years old and couldn't afford to get Goats Head Soup or Exile when it first came out. I was in the same position when Still Life came out ... I saved up my paper round money for that. (What a waste of cash that was!). Give these guys a break. They were really generous and got taken for a ride by the same kind of scumbag who'll probably graduate to running EBay scams before long. No one likes being made a fool of.

the boot selling industry is alive and well, folks. and, i see nothing wrong with it, frankly. there's a market for people who'd rather spend the money, whether that makes sense to some of you or not. these people aren't stupid, either. bootleg sellers offer a valuable service.

I don't think there's anything wrong about selling bootlegs either.
Though this guy got them for free at various RS boards, and he sells them expensive, even they are just copies, not originals. I wonder who paid 50 dollars for a DVD-R...as the link with sssoul posted, shows.

Anyone paying anything for a bootleg deserves to be parted with their cash.

jamesfdouglas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone paying anything for a bootleg deserves to
> be parted with their cash.

uh. yeah, that's sorta the way it works in all financial transactions, no?

I mean, why pay high prices for a boot that's available online, somewhere for free?

>> i don't think there's anything wrong about selling bootlegs either. <<

yeah, i'm not talking about simply selling something. the problem (for me) is that this person
took advantage of people's good will in asking for stuff for free under false pretences.
that isn't okay! i mean, if you have to take advantage of someone, take advantage of a creep,
not of someone who's being good to you, for crying in the dust!
and then his attempt to sell the stuff to the same groups of people who were kind enough to give it to him for free
is offensively stupid.

He's a liar - and telling lies is enough to put any one off.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> i don't think there's anything wrong about
> selling bootlegs either. <<
>
> yeah, i'm not talking about simply selling
> something. the problem (for me) is that this
> person
> took advantage of people's good will in asking for
> stuff for free under false pretences.
> that isn't okay! i mean, if you have to take
> advantage of someone, take advantage of a creep,
> not of someone who's being good to you, for crying
> in the dust!
> and then his attempt to sell the stuff to the same
> groups of people who were kind enough to give it
> to him for free
> is offensively stupid.

i hear ya, sssoulie. i was more just discussing the industry in general. there are very loyal boot customers who willing fork over large wads of dough without complaint. many eitehr don't have the online tools or know-how or simply choose to own the silvers as souvenirs. it's amazing how little the bootleg retail industry has been affected by online distrbution advances the past few years, actually. i have a good buddy who distributes and his business has never been better.

What the guy did is pretty low, but, we are talking about stolen goods in the first place. One could argue that those who sent him the boots shouldn't even have them in the first place.

i would never think of selling something i got off this site

I can understand not liking the selling of something you got for free...but I really don't care if folks sell boots...in fact...I'm glad they do. There are TONS of times I've wanted a boot & can't get it b/c I don't trade (don't know how to burn discs on my computer). It's actually kind of funny...I can't sell them b/c I can't burn discs...but I can't get them...b/c I can't burn discs. I used to buy bootlegs (usually they were CD-Rs) for $30 each disc. Now you people tell me I'm a bad person if I were to sell them? Absurd. How about this...give people free bootlegs & folks won't have to buy them...which means folks won't be able to sell them. We all know people won't do this (most people anyway). There are TONS of trading sites with disclaimers (don't email me...i'm not trading right now...more than i can deal with...blah blah blah). The only way for many people to get bootlegs is to buy them. I've asked people here to help me out with boot DVDs...never worked...so I buy them from that Argentine dude for a small fortune. A few times I've been told "mail me 3 DVD-Rs & a SASE & I will mail it to you. First off...that sounds like profit to me. 2nd off...it would be SOOOO much easier to send $5 & call it even...but somehow that isn't acceptable. Face it...people buy & sell bootlegs b/c others don't give them away or make it easy to get them at cost. You can piss & moan all day...but it's those who make it hard on some of us that create the market.

Here's a great test...there are tons of Stones DVDs I would still like...anyone here going to mail them to me at cost? I'll mail you $2, $3, $4, $5...whatever for each one...let's see if I get any emails offering such a service.

I hate the selling of CD-Rs & DVD-Rs as much as you guys...but it's the only way some of us can get bootlegs. Oh, also...I have no problem with the buying/selling of silver disc bootlegs...can anyone tell me why that is wrong?

Now you're makein' a fuss about a totally different subject.

If that rascal had told everyone that he needs the boots only to sell 'em on ebay and make a profit, but is not willing to pay for blancs and postage - how many do you think he wouldhave got?

Asking for free boots and then turning around and selling them is just plain insulting. Occasionally I'll search on ebay for shows I recorded and report the auctions just to get them unlisted. I know there will always be people out there trying to make a buck but I take it as a blackeye when a recording I put out freely is sold on ebay. Most tapers in ANY circle feel this way. Go ask Phish fans or Deadheads how they feel about making a profit off bootlegs.

I have no sympathy for this JohnnyBMoto kid. He's a liar. It doesn't matter which angle you look at it, the guy is a scumbag. When I first tried to get into boots I just asked around and found people very helpful in pointing me in the right direction. This kid tries the same thing, but turns around and sells what was given to him freely. He's not trying to expand his collection, he's trying to turn a profit. Screw him.

-Drake

whats the difference in selling boots on ebay (or whatever) and buying them from a store that sells bootlegs?

drake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Go ask Phish fans or Deadheads how they feel
> about making a profit off bootlegs.

There is a big difference though, they are/were authorised to record shows, yes selling those is equally low, but the fans are actually entitled to record and trade them in the first place.

>> Here's a great test...there are tons of Stones DVDs I would still like...anyone here going to mail them to me at cost? <<

mercy sdstones: people do this all the time, for total strangers, in exchange for two or three blank disks to cover the costs & shipping.
it's called "B&P" (blanks & postage) trading, and shidoobeeans do it all the time -
that's exactly what that "spread the music" and "trees" forums over there are for.
it's also exactly what this little creep we're discussing took advantage of, but go ahead and sign up over there -
probably not everyone is now totally turned off to the idea of ever dealing with any newcomers.

you can request B&P trades on the hot stuff forum here as well - iorrians are more into upload/download trading,
but some people trade disks as well.

but meanwhile: what you're all het up about for no reason has nothing to do with why people are bugged by this deceitful creep.
so have some popcorn. :E

ps: before posting requests for trades/B&P on shidoobee, it's a good idea to get acquainted
with the etiquette of trading over there - there are sticky posts about it in the appropriate forums.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-20 21:34 by with sssoul.

I guess my point about Phish and Dead heads is the fact that there is an emphasis on trading as the primary source for sharing these recordings. This is regardless of whether it is allowed or not by the band. The emphasis is on trading, not turning a profit.

-Drake

orange cow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> whats the difference in selling boots on ebay (or
> whatever) and buying them from a store that sells
> bootlegs

The difference is in buying & selling 'pressed' copies, which are put out in limited editions by various outfits & have printed covers, versus burning a CDR copy of one of those & selling that. Some folks like to collect those original 'silvers' whereas others are quite happy with a burned CDR copy.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Here's a great test...there are tons of Stones
> DVDs I would still like...anyone here going to
> mail them to me at cost? <<
>
> mercy sdstones: people do this all the time, for
> total strangers, in exchange for two or three
> blank disks to cover the costs & shipping.
> it's called "B&P" (blanks & postage) trading, and
> shidoobeeans do it all the time -
> that's exactly what that "spread the music" and
> "trees" forums over there are for.
> it's also exactly what this little creep we're
> discussing took advantage of, but go ahead and
> sign up over there -
> probably not everyone is now totally turned off to
> the idea of ever dealing with any newcomers.
>
> you can request B&P trades on the hot stuff forum
> here as well - iorrians are more into
> upload/download trading,
> but some people trade disks as well.
>
> but meanwhile: what you're all het up about for no
> reason has nothing to do with why people are
> bugged by this deceitful creep.
> so have some popcorn. :E
>
> ps: before posting requests for trades/B&P on
> shidoobee, it's a good idea to get acquainted
> with the etiquette of trading over there - there
> are sticky posts about it in the appropriate
> forums.



And if you read my post you'd see I've tried this to no avail. Face it...buying bootlegs is the only way unless you trade...which not all of us can do. I say good for this guy for selling them...at least others can get the boots someway...even if it is to pay for them. B&Ps are absurd by the way. It is WAY easier to send $3 than it is to go to the store, buy 10 discs (when you only need 3), mail them (increased mail cost over sending $3) and getting a disc back. B&P sucks...let alone most people have no interest in helping out anyway. I've tried here...I've tried on Shidoobee...VERY little luck. If people do not want to help others out getting boots...then I hope more & more people will sell them...so some of us can still get em.

>> B&P sucks <<

well sdstonesguy i guess i've had some really amazing good fortune, since about 90% of my bootleg collection is from B&P trades.
if it's too much hassle for you to buy/send blanks, i see why you might be a little unsuccessful
in getting people interested in doing it for you. but that doesn't mean "B&P sucks";
it works great for people who are willing to cooperate a little.