No. They were half full. Where's your sense of optimism.

I was at Vegas and it was packed, sold out.

Honolulu only sold 50% or so of the tickets therefore they cancelled it.
Had they not cancelled the show, I have no doubts it would have been nearly sold out by showtime... people here wait until the last minute to do anything...
But I understand the Rock n' Roll biz doesn't work that way.

They visited Boston after having played to 96,000 people, earlier, during ABB tour, in the city. Total Boston's attendance (i mean, last gig included): 140,000 people.

They visited New York after having played to 120,000, earlier, in the city. Total NY's attendance (Beacon included) : 173,000 people.

They visited Chicago after having played to 85,000 people, earlier, in the city. Total Chicago's attendance: 115,000 people.

They visited Los Angeles after having played to 98,000 people, earlier, in the city. LA's attendance: 140,000 people (approximately)

So we have and we ...had:

Boston ABB tour: 140,000. Boston B2B/NS tour: 120,000. Boston VL tour: 100,000.

NY ABB tour: 173,000. NY B2B/NS tour: 200,000. NY VL tour: 260,000.

Chicago ABB tour: 115,000. Chicago B2B/NS tour: 146,000. Chicago VL tour: 110,000.

LA ABB tour: 140,000. LA B2B/NS tour: 124,000.

(I don't mention Licks- it was a "smaller" tour)

So, if you regard ABB tour's attendances at these cities, in which the Stones have played 1,000 times in the last years , as "poor", you must be crazy!

BV

"Tell me the name on any other performing artist in the world who would have sold 700,000 tickets at these venues at the price level the Stones did."

Noone, for sure. But the question is: do we regard the SO HIGH price level as necessary? My answer is NO.

I would definitely count the LICKS tour in that list. Why not? Smaller tour? Why, because it lasted only a year compared to the abnormally long 2-3 year tours?

On Licks they covered every continent and didn't miss out any countries. Especially since several US cities got all three venues (theatre, arena and stadium). A lot of European shows got many shows at the same venue.

I don't consider it a small tour--in fact that I believe is how a tour SHOULD go. Quick and easy. Full year max--and they're done. None of this 3 year shit which makes everyone shrug their shoulders when they hear they're back in town.

stickydion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LA ABB tour: 140,000. LA B2B/NS tour: 124,000.

And VL Tour: 2x Rose Bowl

Justin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> On Licks they covered every continent and didn't
> miss out any countries.

they completely omitted Latin America on Licks.

They also didnt play Africa either, although the only tour where they did play that continent was Voodoo Lounge, when they played 2 shows in South Africa.

StonesTod wrote:
"the stadium show in Oakland was better attended than I expected - but it was far from sold out. In a pretty good location in the lower section I found myself as the only one in an entire row of seats, for instance. my guess is that it was about 70% sold....."

Strange estimate. Are you sure? According to the Press (not to reviews written by fans), the crowd was 42,000 people. Even if 13,000 tickets were given away or not reported - i mention what Dan says- audience remains the same. So, as i see on older statistics, selling out this venue means 45,000- 46,000 tickets. If that's corect, 42,000 does mean 90% of the whole capacity, not 70%. Huge difference.


Bingo wrote:
"...gone are the days of the 81 tour of packing the stadiums."

Oh, no, not this nostalgia again!

FIRST: The stadiums or big venues (like Moncton) were packed during the two first northamerican legs of ABB tour. Also, were packed atleast 8 out of 16 big venues of the last leg.

SECOND: In 1981 the Stones did 50 concerts. During the current tour they did, totaly, 80 gigs in USA- Canada. Different touring "models". More shows = less people at each gig - and the opposite. If the Stones were doing only two shows at NY, they could easily attract 59,000 at Giants Stadium (that means sellout, as for musical events, there) and 90,000 somewhere else. Let's say at Central Park... So what? Look at the result: In 1981 the Stones played to 2 million of people in North America. On ABB tour they played to ...2.1 million.

stickydion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> StonesTod wrote:
> "the stadium show in Oakland was better attended
> than I expected - but it was far from sold out. In
> a pretty good location in the lower section I
> found myself as the only one in an entire row of
> seats, for instance. my guess is that it was about
> 70% sold....."
>
> Strange estimate. Are you sure?


I know from personal experience hes prone to drinking heavily at shows, but as far as I know he doesnt hallucinate and imagine things...

According to the
> Press (not to reviews written by fans), the crowd
> was 42,000 people. Even if 13,000 tickets were
> given away or not reported - i mention what Dan
> says- audience remains the same. So, as i see on
> older statistics, selling out this venue means
> 45,000- 46,000 tickets. If that's corect, 42,000
> does mean 90% of the whole capacity, not 70%. Huge
> difference.
>

I hate to state the obvious, but if 13,000 tickets are 'given away' (although I doubt it was anywhere near that amount), they can hardly be counted as 'sold'....

Basic rule of thumb was ; Arena shows pretty much sold out, although at a slower rate than last year in most cases. Stadium shows - mostly the ones in 'return markets' - sold slowly and some had to be padded out with complimentaries and had sections tapered off. Other stadium shows - primarily in 'virgin' markets such as Regina, Austin, Missoula etc, sold very well and in some cases were pretty much sold out.

As has been said before, by anyone else's standards they sold a lot of tickets and made a lot of money. However, its quite obvious that by their own standards they misjudged the market in some areas and the public's willingness to pay large sums of money to see them over and over again, especially in stadiums in cold weather.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-11-30 18:59 by Gazza.

The stage in Seattle,El Paso and Phoenix was moved way forward so that they played to a much smaller stadium than they would normally.

Gazza wrote:

(A) "I hate to state the obvious, but if 13,000 tickets are 'given away' (although I doubt it was anywhere near that amount), they can hardly be counted as 'sold'...."

Who says something different? But i'm talking about audiences and attendances, not about sales and grosses. I suppose that the Press at Oakland's stadium counted the audience, not tickets sold; besides the number of sold tickets was still unknown.

If M. Cohl has to give special offers or even to give away tickets, as a counterbalance to the highest prices, that's his problem. Not ours. To me, every single person who enjoys a Stones concert, who takes an interest in their music, is the most important thing. Who cares if he (she) payed 500$, 22$, or nothing? He (she) is there. Who says that anyone deserves being at a Stones "party" only if he can afford the prices or if he is willing to pay so much to see his favorite band for 5th or 4th time in a few nonths?

It's funny, but i know two guys who always are counting "paying customers". M. Cohl and ... MicksnSteven!

( "Basic rule of thumb was ; Arena shows pretty much sold out, although at a slower rate than last year in most cases. Stadium shows - mostly the ones in 'return markets' - sold slowly and some had to be padded out with complimentaries and had sections tapered off. Other stadium shows - primarily in 'virgin' markets such as Regina, Austin, Missoula etc, sold very well and in some cases were pretty much sold out."

Correct. But, you see, this moaning about 3-4 concerts brings us to the verge of forgeting Halifax, Louisville, Wichita, Missoula, Regina (#1 and #2), Austin and- maybe- Vancouver.

the stadium in oakland wasn't half empty.

Regarding the recent Fall leg (US)- the Churchill show sold out (or at least reported-some tix were still available after 1st day) the day tix went on sale. The day of the show a packed Churchill Downs rocked with the Stones in the rain-I particularly enjoyed (as I always do) Midnight Rambler with Mick prancing about with the hat! More obscure venues were needed IMO on the Fall leg.

Justin wrote:

"I would definitely count the LICKS tour in that list"

OK, we can estimate approximately Lick's numbers as for these four cities. So the list is the following:

BOSTON
ABB tour : 140,000.
Licks tour: 80,000.
B2B/NS tour: 120,000.
VL tour: 100,000.

NEW YORK

ABB tour : 173,000.
Licks tour: 114,000.
B2B/NS tour: 200,000.
VL tour: 260,000.


CHICAGO

ABB tour : 115,000.
Licks tour: 95,000.
B2B/NS tour: 146,000.
VL tour: 110,000.



LOS ANGELES

ABB tour : 140,000.
Licks tour: 85,000.
B2B/NS tour: 124,000.


BTW, since 1981 Licks was the only Stones tour attended by less than 2 million of people in North America. It's number (look at "Live Licks" CD!) is 1,506,961. And 490,000 from them, just in one show. Toronto.

Oh, sorry erikjjf. I forgot again the two Rose Bowl
gigs on VL tour.

Vancouver was sold out with a reported crowd of 51000, although there were empty seats on the extreme side of the stage which had an obstructed view.

DGA35 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vancouver was sold out with a reported crowd of
> 51000, although there were empty seats on the
> extreme side of the stage which had an obstructed
> view.

Like the small blue patch in this photo I took:

[images14.fotki.com]

I don't know WHO makes up this rubbish because I heard the same nonsense going into the opening show at Foxboro, Sept 20 and it was a packed house! Sure, the third tier MAY have had a few unsold seats but it was NOT empty, not by any stretch!

I know that Baltimore on February 1st was sold out...I was in the next to last row.

Toronto in 2005 where they only played one show instead of the usual 2, was maybe 70% full. It's a great city, and the Stones love it...but an awful venue for sound.

But I do agree that stadium shows are MUCH different than they were. Buffalo in 75, 78 and 81 had a stage way at one end, and fit about 80,000 for a concert. The stage now extends out to nearly midfield, meaning only slightly more than half the seats are used.

I sat on the left side of the stage in Toronto and we were amazed at how much empty space they left behind the stage. We used to refer to that configuration as a 'concert bowl'.

Reduce the price to about $21.00 (like SARSfest was) and they would draw a hell of a lot more....not 490,000....but a lot more than 30,000...and would turn on a LOT more people to the World's Greatest Rock-n-Roll band.

WAYNEPA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know that Baltimore on February 1st was sold
> out...I was in the next to last row.


I dont think theres any debate about that part of the tour. Just the fall leg.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Justin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >>
> > On Licks they covered every continent and
> didn't
> > miss out any countries.
>
> they completely omitted Latin America on Licks.
>
> They also didnt play Africa either, although the
> only tour where they did play that continent was
> Voodoo Lounge, when they played 2 shows in South
> Africa.

you've just made a handful of scientists in Antarctica very angry!

you can't catch me!

Hi Stonesgirl. I wonder why that little section was empty. When did you take the photo, between sets? I was referring to the section to your left in the stands beside the stage. My seat would have been on the floor in the bottom left of your photo.
I was amazed that they didn't even search you at the door. I was thinking of taking a disposable camera but didn't get around to buying one. My friend had a cellphone with a camera but whenever he tried to take a picture of the show, the exposure was too white and you could barely make out anything.

The Notorious NIK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Justin Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >>
> > > On Licks they covered every continent and
> > didn't
> > > miss out any countries.
> >
> > they completely omitted Latin America on Licks.
>
> >
> > They also didnt play Africa either, although
> the
> > only tour where they did play that continent
> was
> > Voodoo Lounge, when they played 2 shows in
> South
> > Africa.
>
> you've just made a handful of scientists in
> Antarctica very angry!


I didnt want to come off as a COMPLETE pedantic smartarse, but I knew you'd gladly oblige in my place!

Debra wrote: "É don't know WHO makes up this rubbish because I heard the same nonsense going into the opening show at Foxboro, Sept 20 and it was a packed house! Sure, the third tier MAY have had a few unsold seats but it was NOT empty, not by any stretch!"

It was a packed house, of course. According to the official numbers reropted on Billboard, there were 44,115 people at Foxboro. Almost sellout (tickets available 45,285). Also according to the Press, there were 43K-45K people there and the venue was packed. No question about it. The "accusation" was different: "Some usuful stadium's sections had been reduced in order that a venue of 68,000 seems packed with 45,000 people only". Groundless "charges"! Because, as i find out looking at older statistics, in 1997 the Stones sold out Foxboro twice with 42,348 tickets for each gig. Also in 1994 they sold out the stadium twice with 48,961 tickets for each concert. Numbers like 68,000 (Foxboro) or 78,000 (Giants) as capacity's figures are refering to football, not to musical events. So, 45,000 at Foxboro isn't something strange.
In contrary, selling out Giants with 48,715 tickets does mean "reduced stadium's sections" at the level of 10,000 seats. Giants was packed too, but not the usual, "regular" Giants of 59,000.

Anyway. Look how strange guys we, Stones fans, are! On ABB tour the Stones played in Boston to more people than they attracted, in the city, during Licks, during B2B/NS and during Voodoo Lounge. And we are able to discuss for a year: "was the last gig in Boston real successful or not?" Mama, we are all crazy now, as Slade said...

DGA35 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Stonesgirl. I wonder why that little section
> was empty. When did you take the photo, between
> sets? I was referring to the section to your left
> in the stands beside the stage. My seat would
> have been on the floor in the bottom left of your
> photo.
> I was amazed that they didn't even search you at
> the door. I was thinking of taking a disposable
> camera but didn't get around to buying one. My
> friend had a cellphone with a camera but whenever
> he tried to take a picture of the show, the
> exposure was too white and you could barely make
> out anything.

I think that photo was taken between songs...between my brother and I, we took 224 photos and about 1 hours worth of video! We took 2 cameras and had NO problem whatsoever getting in.

In Seattle I was on the floor in A5 and I took a few photos and short video, but I was on the aisle and I was afraid of the aisle police. At this concert I was up with my back to the box seating, so I just stood the whole time and snapped away.

Ever since I was at BC place in 1998 and 1 row away from the B stage without a camera, I vowed to get a camera in any way I could. I now know someone who works at BC place, so I asked him about their camera policy before going this time around. He said it would be no problem as long as it wasn't professional, so away I went!

you can see my photos for Vancouver here: [wisegirl.fotki.com]

the password is connection

Seattle photos here: [wisegirl.fotki.com]

password is let it bleed

and my video I am still in the process of uploading them all onto youtube and the longer ones on google video

youtube ones are here: [www.youtube.com]

google video are here:





Enjoy LOL

To answer your original question, I think those sections were scarce because at the angle they were at, they were directly located behind those large towers. People probably moved down towards them though as the concert went on.

In Europe 2007 the arenas will be half full if the prices are the same as in the US 2006. 450 Euro for a FOS ticket.

6/18/95 - The Grateful Dead become the first band in history to surpass the one million mark in attendance at a single venue.

The Grateful Dead have played there 14 times, using simple math, 1 million people divided by 14= 71,428 as an average number of people seeing 1 show at Giants Stadium.....almost double of The Rolling Stones attendance numbers this year.


Sellout is a very loose term, as we see in this example.

The above post and in BOLD is from The Giant Stadium website.

In Europe next year the stadiums will all be half full and it will rain at every show and a lot of us will have a heart attack. Don't even think about buying a ticket. Stay at home and listen to the bootlegs. Life is beautiful!

Bjornulf