Tell Me :
Talk
You look like my friend who is also Jewish. Charlie looks more Roman/Italian, maybe...
(When is this thread going to die?)
I don't get the you look Jewish thing. Jews are as different looking as any other group. My mother was a red head with green eyes, everyone always thought she was Irish. She was an Austrian-Hungarian Jew.
Gospel or any faith-based music can indeed be enjoyed by everyone, regardless of your religious views.
[www.iorr.org]
The "Jewish looks" is usually more commonly used in countries where most of the locals were of north-European origin, or at a time where most population was of that origin and a Jewish community existed as well. England, Scandinavia, Baltic states, north American in the first half of the 19th century. That generation if pretty much gone but ask any Lithuanian origin Jewish person (quite a few formed some BIG UK Jewish communities and are represented there in large numbers) that is over 70 and there is no way he would not refer to a "Typical Jewish Lithuanian looks". Try googling some famous names of British rock musicians that have - how shall we describe it? "a non English looks as per the common cliche of how English looks" - Ringo, Jimmy page - even Keith (when he got older his hair become curly) and many more - you will see that it is quite common question (though the "Is Keith a JE(rk)" question catches the top results...). Even in the US I say quite a few times people who were of Italian American origin and were fed up from being asked if they were Jewish... Not that they minded - they just said that the Italian American community is larger then the Jewish community so they felt it was unfair...
In countries that are more south European you would usually come across much less of the Jewish physical looks stereotype.
Whether we like it, or now - the "typical looks" and ethnic origin deviated from that cliche are very common, just supposed to be done in a "polite" way. Drive through the modern encyclopedic source of wikipedia and you will see many comments, in regards to famous Americans, getting rather "deep" into their ethnic origins. People care. And people generalize. It usually takes very little time to get any type of Clapton that is hiding in many-many people.
The ethnic and religious background of well known people is of enduring interest. I know this for sure due to wikipedia. Its entries always have details on this. As much as we may want to live in a non-judgmental, non-racist world it seems that people are interested in your race, ethnicity and religion once you converse a bit. At least in America it is this way.
As far as Jews go. My mother was Jewish and quite fair with blue eyes and blond hair. So was her sister. My guess is there is Cossack or Slavic blood that got into the family linage via rape during pogroms. If not by rape than by love affairs. The Jewish custom was (is) to not reject the raped woman and her half Jewish child. Or the child of love affairs with non-Jewish men. She was from Odessa Russia. Ukraine?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-17 18:15 by triceratops.
Although I get most of what you're saying I think...I'm primarily of the school of, who the hell cares.
People's prejudices go away when you make close connections with people of the different cultures you were originally prejudiced against.
Thanks Mr DJA for your interesting reaction.
Maybe it is because I also don't care enough to make this an issue at work or in general and I certainly don't like to be accused of being a racist while I am not, but the though comes up in my head once in a while.
What I think is people who believe in "something" (in The Netherlands mostly muslims) get too much priveleges in public places.
Kippah's are not common to wear in The Netherlands at all and certainly not in public places. The last few years people who wear them are increasingly treathend and/or violated by mostly muslims, just out on the street.
All in all my conclusion is: Keep religion to yourself!
I'm very interessed in your wife's opinion. Did you talk about it?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-17 20:50 by OutOfTime.
I don't really care much either, I just think it's interesting how much people try to categorize each other based on looks. In fact, often times if you don't look the part, people drop their pretense of enlightened behavior. I've seen this from Jews as well, by they way.
My father was Italian, (interesting that you mention their looks Wroclaw), so with my Italian surname, blue eyes and fair skin, it was never assumed by casual acquaintances that I could be part Jewish. It made my skin crawl some of the things people would say in front of me. Polite company, indeed.
If you look far enough back, everyone can trace their heritage to many different ethnic groups. Race is a construct.
Amazingly enough, I actually did remember to ask her about it! She said in the corporate world (US mainly for her company though they do some international work as well) this specific issue would be close to a non-issue. She said that, in the corporate world, the wearing of a traditional religious garment would be viewed as and accepted under a "right to religious freedom" while the desire to wear a Rolling Stones Cap would be a "dress code" question. Kind of an Apples v. Oranges situation. She said that, while she does see your point in questioning the apparent double standard, she doesn't believe that any HR professional would get in the middle of the debate. She said that would fall to a lawyer with to much time on their hands.
While I like the idea of keeping one's religious view's to oneself, I also support the right of people to wear traditional items if they choose. I wear a small silver cross and an "Om" around my neck which are sometimes viewable depending on the shirt I'm wearing. Though I've been advised to conceal them on a couple of occasions for safety reasons, I'm not sure how I'd feel if someone told me to keep them hidden for reasons other than safety.
At the end of the day, I think I like the idea (I think it comes from Christianity though I could be wrong) of "letting people know of your beliefs through your actions as opposed to your words". Talk is cheap after all and walking the walk is almost always more effective than talking the talk.
Peace,
Mr DJA
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-17 21:53 by mr_dja.
Thanks again Mr. DJA for your interesting awnswer which makes a little sense in an another non ending "discussion" about what helps somebody get through life.
.
Talk is Cheap indeed. What a great album by the way. The missing link between Under Cover and Steel Wheels which would have made Dirty Work an unreleased bootleg album if only.
Very recognisable.
Apart from blues, outlaw country and rock'n'roll, Gregorian chant is the music I love. I enjoy a (partially) Latin high mass very much. The way the western world was shaped by catholic tradition and institution is very much underestimated by the people these days who think they created the society they love by themselves.
It's not traditionalism in any way (by no means I prefer the traditional or exceptional form of the mass over the post-vatican II novus ordo which is way more pastoral), it's just an interest in and appreciation of the history of the western world as seen in an almost non-religious discipline, that makes me love the solemnity of the latin mass.
Therefore I really never understood the so called descrepancy between the Stones' upbringing (which towards their parents is really not rebellious at all) and their lyrics. Because I myself experience no difficulty whatsoever in loving both.
I tend to think he meant it literally, that he had some Jewish blood, a Jewish parent or grandparent.
How beautiful.
And Chuck wore the Jewish garb, and placed a prayer in the wailing wall.
Thank God for that . .
Not allah?
__________________________
You could well be right, in fact I hope you are. Some of those old slang expressions are embarrassing, looking back!
Just sayin'...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-23 03:12 by shadooby.
He didnt. That's an old myth that was used "against" @#$%& (competition in the Nazi party). Mainly based on a story suggesting @#$%& paternal grandmother had an affair with a Jewish man (the Frankenberger and the Rothschild myths). This and other theories have all been proved wrong. Pure fiction.
yes Mr DJA, keep walking the walk!
Greek Goddess of Wisdom, Skill...& War
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
From4tilLate
()
Date: June 17, 2014 07:06
Religion gets a bad rap. It's unnecessary for many people but for many others it's a needed way to cope. Most people don't have the intellect to find spiritual sustenance without a guidebook, and they shouldn't be looked down upon for needing that. It's the way millions of humans are wired. I reject the notion that there has been no greater cause of war, or misery. That gets bandied about a lot and I just don't think that's true at all. Religion's been used for good and for bad; but if it didn't exist, someone would have to invent it.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Straycat13
()
Date: June 17, 2014 07:48
Quote
BluzDudeQuote
Straycat13Quote
BluzDude
OK, so who looks more Jewish, Charlie or me?
You.
I think I agree
You look like my friend who is also Jewish. Charlie looks more Roman/Italian, maybe...
(When is this thread going to die?)
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Athena
()
Date: June 17, 2014 08:06
Do remember Brian had religious (Protestant, maybe?) upbringing as choir boy & funeral services, burial in his family's church...the others may have had like backgrounds as children but seem to have rebelled with some of their satanic future themes....Sympathy For The Devil, etc.
Greek Goddess of Wisdom, Skill...& War
Greek Goddess of Wisdom, Skill...& War
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
latebloomer
()
Date: June 17, 2014 15:05
Quote
Straycat13Quote
BluzDudeQuote
Straycat13Quote
BluzDude
OK, so who looks more Jewish, Charlie or me?
You.
I think I agree
You look like my friend who is also Jewish. Charlie looks more Roman/Italian, maybe...
(When is this thread going to die?)
I don't get the you look Jewish thing. Jews are as different looking as any other group. My mother was a red head with green eyes, everyone always thought she was Irish. She was an Austrian-Hungarian Jew.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
rbk
()
Date: June 17, 2014 15:19
At Chuch Megee's (Lutheran, if memory serves) funeral in 2005 in Marquette, Michigan attendees said Mick took communion "for the first time ever in the United States," or so he said.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Bliss
()
Date: June 17, 2014 15:22
You can decry religion with every justification, but if you dismiss it from your life, you may be missing a lot.
At my local church in Italy, I sing every night at Vespers with the Sisters and Friars. All in Latin. I don't have much of a singing voice, but I sing my heart out and leave floating on a cloud. They make no demands on me whatever.
When we are in Rome for several months, I also sing on Sundays with the African church. Everyone in the church is singing and dancing. They are Congolese but to me it sounds like South African music.
African church in Rome
If I lived in the US, I would join a gospel church if they let me. If you like Shine a Light - it was written by Mick after Billy Preston took him to some gospel churches in LA.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-17 15:56 by Bliss.
At my local church in Italy, I sing every night at Vespers with the Sisters and Friars. All in Latin. I don't have much of a singing voice, but I sing my heart out and leave floating on a cloud. They make no demands on me whatever.
When we are in Rome for several months, I also sing on Sundays with the African church. Everyone in the church is singing and dancing. They are Congolese but to me it sounds like South African music.
African church in Rome
If I lived in the US, I would join a gospel church if they let me. If you like Shine a Light - it was written by Mick after Billy Preston took him to some gospel churches in LA.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-17 15:56 by Bliss.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
latebloomer
()
Date: June 17, 2014 15:31
Quote
Bliss
You can decry religion with every justification, but if you dismiss it from your life, you may be missing a lot.
At my local church in Italy, I sing every night at Vespers with the Sisters and Friars. All in Latin. I don't have much of a singing voice, but I sing my heart out and leave floating on a cloud. They make no demands on me whatever.
When we are in Rome for several months, I also sing on Sundays with the African church. Everyone in the church is singing and dancing. They are from Malawi but to me it sounds like South African music.
If I lived in the US, I would join a gospel church if they let me. If you like Shine a Light - it was written by Mick after Billy Preston took him to some gospel churches in LA.
Gospel or any faith-based music can indeed be enjoyed by everyone, regardless of your religious views.
[www.iorr.org]
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Wroclaw
()
Date: June 17, 2014 16:22
Quote
latebloomerQuote
Straycat13Quote
BluzDudeQuote
Straycat13Quote
BluzDude
OK, so who looks more Jewish, Charlie or me?
You.
I think I agree
You look like my friend who is also Jewish. Charlie looks more Roman/Italian, maybe...
(When is this thread going to die?)
I don't get the you look Jewish thing. Jews are as different looking as any other group. My mother was a red head with green eyes, everyone always thought she was Irish. She was an Austrian-Hungarian Jew.
The "Jewish looks" is usually more commonly used in countries where most of the locals were of north-European origin, or at a time where most population was of that origin and a Jewish community existed as well. England, Scandinavia, Baltic states, north American in the first half of the 19th century. That generation if pretty much gone but ask any Lithuanian origin Jewish person (quite a few formed some BIG UK Jewish communities and are represented there in large numbers) that is over 70 and there is no way he would not refer to a "Typical Jewish Lithuanian looks". Try googling some famous names of British rock musicians that have - how shall we describe it? "a non English looks as per the common cliche of how English looks" - Ringo, Jimmy page - even Keith (when he got older his hair become curly) and many more - you will see that it is quite common question (though the "Is Keith a JE(rk)" question catches the top results...). Even in the US I say quite a few times people who were of Italian American origin and were fed up from being asked if they were Jewish... Not that they minded - they just said that the Italian American community is larger then the Jewish community so they felt it was unfair...
In countries that are more south European you would usually come across much less of the Jewish physical looks stereotype.
Whether we like it, or now - the "typical looks" and ethnic origin deviated from that cliche are very common, just supposed to be done in a "polite" way. Drive through the modern encyclopedic source of wikipedia and you will see many comments, in regards to famous Americans, getting rather "deep" into their ethnic origins. People care. And people generalize. It usually takes very little time to get any type of Clapton that is hiding in many-many people.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
triceratops
()
Date: June 17, 2014 18:14
Quote
Wroclaw
The "Jewish looks" is usually more commonly used in countries where most of the locals were of north-European origin, or at a time where most population was of that origin and a Jewish community existed as well. England, Scandinavia, Baltic states, north American in the first half of the 19th century. That generation if pretty much gone but ask any Lithuanian origin Jewish person (quite a few formed some BIG UK Jewish communities and are represented there in large numbers) that is over 70 and there is no way he would not refer to a "Typical Jewish Lithuanian looks". Try googling some famous names of British rock musicians that have - how shall we describe it? "a non English looks as per the common cliche of how English looks" - Ringo, Jimmy page - even Keith (when he got older his hair become curly) and many more - you will see that it is quite common question (though the "Is Keith a JE(rk)" question catches the top results...). Even in the US I say quite a few times people who were of Italian American origin and were fed up from being asked if they were Jewish... Not that they minded - they just said that the Italian American community is larger then the Jewish community so they felt it was unfair...
In countries that are more south European you would usually come across much less of the Jewish physical looks stereotype.
Whether we like it, or now - the "typical looks" and ethnic origin deviated from that cliche are very common, just supposed to be done in a "polite" way. Drive through the modern encyclopedic source of wikipedia and you will see many comments, in regards to famous Americans, getting rather "deep" into their ethnic origins. People care. And people generalize. It usually takes very little time to get any type of Clapton that is hiding in many-many people.
The ethnic and religious background of well known people is of enduring interest. I know this for sure due to wikipedia. Its entries always have details on this. As much as we may want to live in a non-judgmental, non-racist world it seems that people are interested in your race, ethnicity and religion once you converse a bit. At least in America it is this way.
As far as Jews go. My mother was Jewish and quite fair with blue eyes and blond hair. So was her sister. My guess is there is Cossack or Slavic blood that got into the family linage via rape during pogroms. If not by rape than by love affairs. The Jewish custom was (is) to not reject the raped woman and her half Jewish child. Or the child of love affairs with non-Jewish men. She was from Odessa Russia. Ukraine?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-17 18:15 by triceratops.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: June 17, 2014 18:18
Quote
WroclawQuote
latebloomerQuote
Straycat13Quote
BluzDudeQuote
Straycat13Quote
BluzDude
OK, so who looks more Jewish, Charlie or me?
You.
I think I agree
You look like my friend who is also Jewish. Charlie looks more Roman/Italian, maybe...
(When is this thread going to die?)
I don't get the you look Jewish thing. Jews are as different looking as any other group. My mother was a red head with green eyes, everyone always thought she was Irish. She was an Austrian-Hungarian Jew.
The "Jewish looks" is usually more commonly used in countries where most of the locals were of north-European origin, or at a time where most population was of that origin and a Jewish community existed as well. England, Scandinavia, Baltic states, north American in the first half of the 19th century. That generation if pretty much gone but ask any Lithuanian origin Jewish person (quite a few formed some BIG UK Jewish communities and are represented there in large numbers) that is over 70 and there is no way he would not refer to a "Typical Jewish Lithuanian looks". Try googling some famous names of British rock musicians that have - how shall we describe it? "a non English looks as per the common cliche of how English looks" - Ringo, Jimmy page - even Keith (when he got older his hair become curly) and many more - you will see that it is quite common question (though the "Is Keith a JE(rk)" question catches the top results...). Even in the US I say quite a few times people who were of Italian American origin and were fed up from being asked if they were Jewish... Not that they minded - they just said that the Italian American community is larger then the Jewish community so they felt it was unfair...
In countries that are more south European you would usually come across much less of the Jewish physical looks stereotype.
Whether we like it, or now - the "typical looks" and ethnic origin deviated from that cliche are very common, just supposed to be done in a "polite" way. Drive through the modern encyclopedic source of wikipedia and you will see many comments, in regards to famous Americans, getting rather "deep" into their ethnic origins. People care. And people generalize. It usually takes very little time to get any type of Clapton that is hiding in many-many people.
Although I get most of what you're saying I think...I'm primarily of the school of, who the hell cares.
People's prejudices go away when you make close connections with people of the different cultures you were originally prejudiced against.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
OutOfTime
()
Date: June 17, 2014 20:45
Quote
mr_djaQuote
OutOfTimea) So a religion that's named itself something ages ago by someone is holy just because they named themselves christians, muslims, etc.?Quote
swissQuote
OutOfTimeQuote
AquamarineQuote
OutOfTime
One question: why is it accepted muslimwomen wear a "headscarf" (is that the right word?) at work in public places and a Rolling Stones cap is not. I'm not allowed to wear one at work.
Umm. You seriously don't see the distinction?
Regarding Bliss's post [I never figured out how to multiquote, sorry!]I remember Charlie being quoted in one of the early Stones books saying something like "Being Jewish, I was keen to make some money", describing the early years., he did indeed say this, and I regret to say it was probably because back in the day it was pretty common to use "Jewish" as a synonym for "tight with money." So he may not have meant it literally.
Yes, I am serious. The distinction is that religion is being indoctrinated from birth since ages and The Rolling Stones are only around since 1962. So how come a Stonescap is not allowed at work and other religious clothing is? I don't see the difference. They are fans of "a god" and I am a fan of The Stones.
If you, in all seriousness, consider The Rolling Stones to be your religion then you might be able to argue
your case---however: (a) there is no religion called The Rolling Stones, and (b) if there were, there is no
official headpiece that has been deemed holy, or arising from tenets of that religion.
b) Nonsense. Just fairytale stuff made up by clever manupilators through the ages and continueing today.
I know The Rolling Stones are no religion but they are for real and playing tonight in Vienna. That's what live is about, not believing in "something" so you can "live" furtherafter dead and others who don't are not allowed in their "heaven".
You're probably not allowed to wear ANY cap to work though. Asuming that non-muslim women allowed to wear scarves on their hair as opposed to arround their neck you might have a valid discrimination claim against your employer? Are Kippah's permitted? - I'll bet they are. If you were to ask your employer why regligious headgear is permitted while secular headgear is banned, you may even have a leg to stand on in the debate even though it probably wouldn't get you the result I assume you're wanting.
It's an interesting question you raise, though. If I were in the same position, I don't think I'd care enough to approach my employer about it as I don't find it that important. HOWEVER, if you do choose to persue it any farther, I'd be interested in how it turns out for you. Mainly because my wife's job is as Human Resources Director for the small corporation she works for. SHE'S actually the person who writes this type of policy for her company. I'm going to describe your situation to her tonight and see what she says.
Peace,
Mr DJA
Thanks Mr DJA for your interesting reaction.
Maybe it is because I also don't care enough to make this an issue at work or in general and I certainly don't like to be accused of being a racist while I am not, but the though comes up in my head once in a while.
What I think is people who believe in "something" (in The Netherlands mostly muslims) get too much priveleges in public places.
Kippah's are not common to wear in The Netherlands at all and certainly not in public places. The last few years people who wear them are increasingly treathend and/or violated by mostly muslims, just out on the street.
All in all my conclusion is: Keep religion to yourself!
I'm very interessed in your wife's opinion. Did you talk about it?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-17 20:50 by OutOfTime.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
latebloomer
()
Date: June 17, 2014 21:47
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
WroclawQuote
latebloomerQuote
Straycat13Quote
BluzDudeQuote
Straycat13Quote
BluzDude
OK, so who looks more Jewish, Charlie or me?
You.
I think I agree
You look like my friend who is also Jewish. Charlie looks more Roman/Italian, maybe...
(When is this thread going to die?)
I don't get the you look Jewish thing. Jews are as different looking as any other group. My mother was a red head with green eyes, everyone always thought she was Irish. She was an Austrian-Hungarian Jew.
The "Jewish looks" is usually more commonly used in countries where most of the locals were of north-European origin, or at a time where most population was of that origin and a Jewish community existed as well. England, Scandinavia, Baltic states, north American in the first half of the 19th century. That generation if pretty much gone but ask any Lithuanian origin Jewish person (quite a few formed some BIG UK Jewish communities and are represented there in large numbers) that is over 70 and there is no way he would not refer to a "Typical Jewish Lithuanian looks". Try googling some famous names of British rock musicians that have - how shall we describe it? "a non English looks as per the common cliche of how English looks" - Ringo, Jimmy page - even Keith (when he got older his hair become curly) and many more - you will see that it is quite common question (though the "Is Keith a JE(rk)" question catches the top results...). Even in the US I say quite a few times people who were of Italian American origin and were fed up from being asked if they were Jewish... Not that they minded - they just said that the Italian American community is larger then the Jewish community so they felt it was unfair...
In countries that are more south European you would usually come across much less of the Jewish physical looks stereotype.
Whether we like it, or now - the "typical looks" and ethnic origin deviated from that cliche are very common, just supposed to be done in a "polite" way. Drive through the modern encyclopedic source of wikipedia and you will see many comments, in regards to famous Americans, getting rather "deep" into their ethnic origins. People care. And people generalize. It usually takes very little time to get any type of Clapton that is hiding in many-many people.
Although I get most of what you're saying I think...I'm primarily of the school of, who the hell cares.
People's prejudices go away when you make close connections with people of the different cultures you were originally prejudiced against.
I don't really care much either, I just think it's interesting how much people try to categorize each other based on looks. In fact, often times if you don't look the part, people drop their pretense of enlightened behavior. I've seen this from Jews as well, by they way.
My father was Italian, (interesting that you mention their looks Wroclaw), so with my Italian surname, blue eyes and fair skin, it was never assumed by casual acquaintances that I could be part Jewish. It made my skin crawl some of the things people would say in front of me. Polite company, indeed.
If you look far enough back, everyone can trace their heritage to many different ethnic groups. Race is a construct.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
mr_dja
()
Date: June 17, 2014 21:52
Quote
OutOfTime
Thanks Mr DJA for your interesting reaction.
Maybe it is because I also don't care enough to make this an issue at work or in general and I certainly don't like to be accused of being a racist while I am not, but the though comes up in my head once in a while.
What I think is people who believe in "something" (in The Netherlands mostly muslims) get too much priveleges in public places.
Kippah's are not common to wear in The Netherlands at all and certainly not in public places. The last few years people who wear them are increasingly treathend and/or violated by mostly muslims, just out on the street.
All in all my conclusion is: Keep religion to yourself!
I'm very interessed in your wife's opinion. Did you talk about it?
Amazingly enough, I actually did remember to ask her about it! She said in the corporate world (US mainly for her company though they do some international work as well) this specific issue would be close to a non-issue. She said that, in the corporate world, the wearing of a traditional religious garment would be viewed as and accepted under a "right to religious freedom" while the desire to wear a Rolling Stones Cap would be a "dress code" question. Kind of an Apples v. Oranges situation. She said that, while she does see your point in questioning the apparent double standard, she doesn't believe that any HR professional would get in the middle of the debate. She said that would fall to a lawyer with to much time on their hands.
While I like the idea of keeping one's religious view's to oneself, I also support the right of people to wear traditional items if they choose. I wear a small silver cross and an "Om" around my neck which are sometimes viewable depending on the shirt I'm wearing. Though I've been advised to conceal them on a couple of occasions for safety reasons, I'm not sure how I'd feel if someone told me to keep them hidden for reasons other than safety.
At the end of the day, I think I like the idea (I think it comes from Christianity though I could be wrong) of "letting people know of your beliefs through your actions as opposed to your words". Talk is cheap after all and walking the walk is almost always more effective than talking the talk.
Peace,
Mr DJA
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-17 21:53 by mr_dja.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
OutOfTime
()
Date: June 18, 2014 22:02
Quote
mr_djaQuote
OutOfTime
Thanks Mr DJA for your interesting reaction.
Maybe it is because I also don't care enough to make this an issue at work or in general and I certainly don't like to be accused of being a racist while I am not, but the though comes up in my head once in a while.
What I think is people who believe in "something" (in The Netherlands mostly muslims) get too much priveleges in public places.
Kippah's are not common to wear in The Netherlands at all and certainly not in public places. The last few years people who wear them are increasingly treathend and/or violated by mostly muslims, just out on the street.
All in all my conclusion is: Keep religion to yourself!
I'm very interessed in your wife's opinion. Did you talk about it?
Amazingly enough, I actually did remember to ask her about it! She said in the corporate world (US mainly for her company though they do some international work as well) this specific issue would be close to a non-issue. She said that, in the corporate world, the wearing of a traditional religious garment would be viewed as and accepted under a "right to religious freedom" while the desire to wear a Rolling Stones Cap would be a "dress code" question. Kind of an Apples v. Oranges situation. She said that, while she does see your point in questioning the apparent double standard, she doesn't believe that any HR professional would get in the middle of the debate. She said that would fall to a lawyer with to much time on their hands.
While I like the idea of keeping one's religious view's to oneself, I also support the right of people to wear traditional items if they choose. I wear a small silver cross and an "Om" around my neck which are sometimes viewable depending on the shirt I'm wearing. Though I've been advised to conceal them on a couple of occasions for safety reasons, I'm not sure how I'd feel if someone told me to keep them hidden for reasons other than safety.
At the end of the day, I think I like the idea (I think it comes from Christianity though I could be wrong) of "letting people know of your beliefs through your actions as opposed to your words". Talk is cheap after all and walking the walk is almost always more effective than talking the talk.
Peace,
Mr DJA
Thanks again Mr. DJA for your interesting awnswer which makes a little sense in an another non ending "discussion" about what helps somebody get through life.
.Talk is Cheap indeed. What a great album by the way. The missing link between Under Cover and Steel Wheels which would have made Dirty Work an unreleased bootleg album if only.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Limbostone
()
Date: June 18, 2014 23:02
Quote
Bliss
You can decry religion with every justification, but if you dismiss it from your life, you may be missing a lot.
At my local church in Italy, I sing every night at Vespers with the Sisters and Friars. All in Latin. I don't have much of a singing voice, but I sing my heart out and leave floating on a cloud. They make no demands on me whatever.
Very recognisable.
Apart from blues, outlaw country and rock'n'roll, Gregorian chant is the music I love. I enjoy a (partially) Latin high mass very much. The way the western world was shaped by catholic tradition and institution is very much underestimated by the people these days who think they created the society they love by themselves.
It's not traditionalism in any way (by no means I prefer the traditional or exceptional form of the mass over the post-vatican II novus ordo which is way more pastoral), it's just an interest in and appreciation of the history of the western world as seen in an almost non-religious discipline, that makes me love the solemnity of the latin mass.
Therefore I really never understood the so called descrepancy between the Stones' upbringing (which towards their parents is really not rebellious at all) and their lyrics. Because I myself experience no difficulty whatsoever in loving both.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: June 19, 2014 02:22
There was some recent program on television that said that @#$%& had Jewish blood in him.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Bliss
()
Date: June 19, 2014 09:07
Quote
Aquamarine
Regarding Bliss's post [I never figured out how to multiquote, sorry!]I remember Charlie being quoted in one of the early Stones books saying something like "Being Jewish, I was keen to make some money", describing the early years., he did indeed say this, and I regret to say it was probably because back in the day it was pretty common to use "Jewish" as a synonym for "tight with money." So he may not have meant it literally.
I tend to think he meant it literally, that he had some Jewish blood, a Jewish parent or grandparent.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Wroclaw
()
Date: June 22, 2014 11:25
Not exactly Rolling Stones members, but rather the touring party members, but…
A person I know saw Lisa Fischer, Bernard Fowler and Tim Ries at the Holy Sepulture in Jerusalem before the Tel Aviv gig. Lisa went on her knees and touched the Stone of Anointing. Bernard and Tim didn’t. Obviously there are exceptions but you are most likely a rather devoted believer when you do that practice – the more secular visitors (especially from North America) behave like tourists visiting a museum in the Holy Sepulture that is a complete opposite to what churches in North America usually look like and feels “unwelcoming” for some type of people. I guess, then, that Lisa is among the more religious in the bands periphery.
A person I know saw Lisa Fischer, Bernard Fowler and Tim Ries at the Holy Sepulture in Jerusalem before the Tel Aviv gig. Lisa went on her knees and touched the Stone of Anointing. Bernard and Tim didn’t. Obviously there are exceptions but you are most likely a rather devoted believer when you do that practice – the more secular visitors (especially from North America) behave like tourists visiting a museum in the Holy Sepulture that is a complete opposite to what churches in North America usually look like and feels “unwelcoming” for some type of people. I guess, then, that Lisa is among the more religious in the bands periphery.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Straycat13
()
Date: June 22, 2014 19:20
Quote
Wroclaw
Not exactly Rolling Stones members, but rather the touring party members, but…
A person I know saw Lisa Fischer, Bernard Fowler and Tim Ries at the Holy Sepulture in Jerusalem before the Tel Aviv gig. Lisa went on her knees and touched the Stone of Anointing. Bernard and Tim didn’t. Obviously there are exceptions but you are most likely a rather devoted believer when you do that practice – the more secular visitors (especially from North America) behave like tourists visiting a museum in the Holy Sepulture that is a complete opposite to what churches in North America usually look like and feels “unwelcoming” for some type of people. I guess, then, that Lisa is among the more religious in the bands periphery.
How beautiful.
And Chuck wore the Jewish garb, and placed a prayer in the wailing wall.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
swiss
()
Date: June 22, 2014 20:14
In 2007, when Kabbalah was all the celebrity rage, it was speculated that Mick too was into Kabbalah.
iirc, the speculation was based on Mick's being spotted wearing a string around his wrist. At the time
Mick said in some interview, sounding irritated, that the string was some kind of a holy Hindu thread
bracelet that Tony Bennett(?) and others also had received as some kind of honor. That it wasn't a
Kabbalah bracelet,and not even worn on the same wrist as whichever hand Kabbalah devotees wear
their Kabbalah bracelet.
I never saw anything else other than speculation about Mick and Kabbalah, and it was all based on that
thread around his wrist - but that didn't stop it from being repeated when celebrities "into Kabbalah"
are listed in gossip articles...
The best quote I found about Mick and religion is the one I posted a couple pages back. He basically
says he is maybe somewhat spiritual but not religious, and does not believe in religion, nor a supreme
being.
iirc, the speculation was based on Mick's being spotted wearing a string around his wrist. At the time
Mick said in some interview, sounding irritated, that the string was some kind of a holy Hindu thread
bracelet that Tony Bennett(?) and others also had received as some kind of honor. That it wasn't a
Kabbalah bracelet,and not even worn on the same wrist as whichever hand Kabbalah devotees wear
their Kabbalah bracelet.
I never saw anything else other than speculation about Mick and Kabbalah, and it was all based on that
thread around his wrist - but that didn't stop it from being repeated when celebrities "into Kabbalah"
are listed in gossip articles...
The best quote I found about Mick and religion is the one I posted a couple pages back. He basically
says he is maybe somewhat spiritual but not religious, and does not believe in religion, nor a supreme
being.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
CousinC
()
Date: June 22, 2014 20:57
Quote
swiss
The best quote I found about Mick and religion is the one I posted a couple pages back. He basically
says he is maybe somewhat spiritual but not religious, and does not believe in religion, nor a supreme
being.
Thank God for that . .
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
OutOfTime
()
Date: June 22, 2014 21:07
Quote
CousinCQuote
swiss
The best quote I found about Mick and religion is the one I posted a couple pages back. He basically
says he is maybe somewhat spiritual but not religious, and does not believe in religion, nor a supreme
being.
Thank God for that . .
Not allah?
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Bliss
()
Date: June 22, 2014 22:17
I thought I read somewhere that the Kabbalah group expects members to donate 10% of their income, so I think it's safe to say that Mick is not too involved!
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: June 22, 2014 23:01
Quote
Bliss
I thought I read somewhere that the Kabbalah group expects members to donate 10% of their income, so I think it's safe to say that Mick is not too involved!
__________________________
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: June 23, 2014 02:32
Quote
BlissQuote
Aquamarine
Regarding Bliss's post [I never figured out how to multiquote, sorry!]I remember Charlie being quoted in one of the early Stones books saying something like "Being Jewish, I was keen to make some money", describing the early years., he did indeed say this, and I regret to say it was probably because back in the day it was pretty common to use "Jewish" as a synonym for "tight with money." So he may not have meant it literally.
I tend to think he meant it literally, that he had some Jewish blood, a Jewish parent or grandparent.
You could well be right, in fact I hope you are. Some of those old slang expressions are embarrassing, looking back!
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
shadooby
()
Date: June 23, 2014 03:11
Just sayin'...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-23 03:12 by shadooby.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
StonedAsia
()
Date: June 23, 2014 06:51
I plan on going 'up there' and with that said, it would be nice to have at least Keith hangin' around playing some heavenly blues
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: June 23, 2014 08:26
Quote
timbernardis
There was some recent program on television that said that @#$%& had Jewish blood in him.
He didnt. That's an old myth that was used "against" @#$%& (competition in the Nazi party). Mainly based on a story suggesting @#$%& paternal grandmother had an affair with a Jewish man (the Frankenberger and the Rothschild myths). This and other theories have all been proved wrong. Pure fiction.
Re: Stones & Religion
Posted by:
Athena
()
Date: June 26, 2014 08:01
Quote
mr_djaQuote
OutOfTime
Thanks Mr DJA for your interesting reaction.
Maybe it is because I also don't care enough to make this an issue at work or in general and I certainly don't like to be accused of being a racist while I am not, but the though comes up in my head once in a while.
What I think is people who believe in "something" (in The Netherlands mostly muslims) get too much priveleges in public places.
Kippah's are not common to wear in The Netherlands at all and certainly not in public places. The last few years people who wear them are increasingly treathend and/or violated by mostly muslims, just out on the street.
All in all my conclusion is: Keep religion to yourself!
I'm very interessed in your wife's opinion. Did you talk about it?
Amazingly enough, I actually did remember to ask her about it! She said in the corporate world (US mainly for her company though they do some international work as well) this specific issue would be close to a non-issue. She said that, in the corporate world, the wearing of a traditional religious garment would be viewed as and accepted under a "right to religious freedom" while the desire to wear a Rolling Stones Cap would be a "dress code" question. Kind of an Apples v. Oranges situation. She said that, while she does see your point in questioning the apparent double standard, she doesn't believe that any HR professional would get in the middle of the debate. She said that would fall to a lawyer with to much time on their hands.
While I like the idea of keeping one's religious view's to oneself, I also support the right of people to wear traditional items if they choose. I wear a small silver cross and an "Om" around my neck which are sometimes viewable depending on the shirt I'm wearing. Though I've been advised to conceal them on a couple of occasions for safety reasons, I'm not sure how I'd feel if someone told me to keep them hidden for reasons other than safety.
At the end of the day, I think I like the idea (I think it comes from Christianity though I could be wrong) of "letting people know of your beliefs through your actions as opposed to your words". Talk is cheap after all and walking the walk is almost always more effective than talking the talk.
Peace,
Mr DJA
yes Mr DJA, keep walking the walk! Greek Goddess of Wisdom, Skill...& War
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