I am so tired of hearing that the sound was bad and it should have been mixed better, etc.

I saw Elton John at Wembley in 1984 in front of 60 000 and the sound was as clear as a bell.

NEWSFLASH: the sound these days is a reflection of the band, not due to shoddy soundboard mixing.

Do you honeslty think that they wouldn't have the best technicians in the world?

The sound ain't great because the performance ain't great. Period.

thats what I would expect coming from Bianca.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-08-26 23:57 by ryanpow.

I have always understood great sounding concert halls, sound great because of the sound reflections. I think it is something like 30% direct and 70% reflected sound to create an overall sound that most would say is excellent.

Stadiums are gonna sound different depending on where you sit.

Saw the Stones in the Sky Dome (Rogers Centre) from far away and it was horrible. Lows muddy, snare drum almost non existent and vocals echoing.

Technicians can not make a stadium sound good in all places and, I believe all sound technicians would agree.

No offence intended.

yo're right markdog, i spoke with a friend who's in the field and he says no matter how big is the name and high level is the sound system, to make a good sound in a stadium is always hard and often unpredictable. they have kind of templates for different kind of venues and they make adjustment in the place and then it is hard, almost impossible, to fix once the the show is on. The bigger the venue the more unpredictable the outcome is. Very likely to have blank spots, areas where the sound comes out muddy or too low or too loud etc...
so, do they have the best technicians? yes
can the best technicians make a stadium sound good for every single attendee? not very likely
in Milan, for example, the sound was perfect for people sit on the tiers and standing on the back of the field but suck big time for people on the front rows at least for the first 20 minutes.

The first 4 posts are exactly what i expected.

Why is it that the most famous rock band in the world...who have been doing this for 40 years...who charges absolute top dollar...can put on a concert that is reviewed by members of this board...the most loyal fans in the world...and the reviews consistently state that the sound is awful?

It seems that every review I read uses the adjective "muddy".

Lets be honest people. I'll bet the sound wasn't so "muddy" 30 years ago.

The sound is ALL that matters..if you cant hear them, it SUCKS....

JR

bianca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The first 4 posts are exactly what i expected.
>
> Why is it that the most famous rock band in the
> world...who have been doing this for 40
> years...who charges absolute top dollar...can put
> on a concert that is reviewed by members of this
> board...the most loyal fans in the world...and the
> reviews consistently state that the sound is
> awful?
>
> It seems that every review I read uses the
> adjective "muddy".
>
> Lets be honest people. I'll bet the sound wasn't
> so "muddy" 30 years ago.

hi, i am sorry i can't make you read my lips. I try to spell it again though. In Milan i was front row and the sound was "muddy" for the first 4/5 songs than it went better but not perfect at all period. BUT that same night i met people that have attended the same show from differnt places on the tiers and told that - ITHO - the sound was very good. Got it?

maumau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bianca Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The first 4 posts are exactly what i expected.
> >
> > Why is it that the most famous rock band in the
> > world...who have been doing this for 40
> > years...who charges absolute top dollar...can
> put
> > on a concert that is reviewed by members of
> this
> > board...the most loyal fans in the world...and
> the
> > reviews consistently state that the sound is
> > awful?
> >
> > It seems that every review I read uses the
> > adjective "muddy".
> >
> > Lets be honest people. I'll bet the sound
> wasn't
> > so "muddy" 30 years ago.
>
> hi, i am sorry i can't make you read my lips. I
> try to spell it again though. In Milan i was front
> row and the sound was "muddy" for the first 4/5
> songs than it went better but not perfect at all
> period. BUT that same night i met people that have
> attended the same show from differnt places on the
> tiers and told that - ITHO - the sound was very
> good. Got it?

Yes but, beingin the front row your getting the sound from the Amplfiers,not the house mix at all.So it should be good everynight in the front row

x



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-06 06:54 by Beelyboy.

Beelyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it kind of begs the question would a serious band,
> serious about their music, and serious about their
> fans and serious about their musical
> "presentation", sonically and otherwise...
> play, almost exclusively, huge open sports arena$,
> instead of to 20,000 seaters? (or less...) in cool
> places where the arena architects, or skilled
> rigging crews, who care about acoustics, can
> manage them...
>
> bianca makes an interesting point. kinda reminds
> me of all the times springsteen would comb the
> entire huge arenas, or bigger (choosing stadiums
> only occasionally, where they knew they could make
> it work)
> he'd have his tele on wireless and have the band
> on stage and roam around from section to
> section...(knowing that of course, bodies filling
> the place would dampen the sound somewhat)...but
> he's check everywhere, for everything...he was the
> "boss" because he took charge of what the fans
> were gonna get, respond to, JOIN IN WITH,
> ultimately, and go home with, forever...he was
> there to 'prove it all night' ....
>
> but many here are proud of the stones cash records
> and huge historic receipts and numbers played to,
> etc...
> i'd be proud if they'd strip down and play the
> newport folk festival...
> get funky, be present...be a part of it all...like
> keith did with that gram tribute...stop making the
> band a circus joke...with, in a lot of cases,
> unless your seats are absolutely great...shit
> sound...even if they play well.
>
> oh the spectacle!! golly gee they are the mostest
> and bestest and played for everybody in the
> universe and made more money than god...i don't
> get fans like that...but they probably don't get
> their beelyboy
>
> ...but it's inexcusable...
> less truckloads full of stage crap that smokes and
> is art design heaven...
> more speaker/amp rigs flying...or don't play
> places where you're gonna sound like shit...it's
> almost like they don't even care...and of course,
> they do.
> right?

Nice post Beely,Iguess were not all on cloud nine around hereabout the stones!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ making auto-pilot.............no excuses

stonesfrk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes but, beingin the front row your getting the
> sound from the Amplfiers,not the house mix at
> all.So it should be good everynight in the front
> row

stonefrk, i am not going to act here like an expert sound engineer. But I put my questions and had some answers by people more in the knowledge than me.
What i gathered was: sound system for a stadium concert is a complex game. Sound perception can change dramatically from one spot to another. Or from one height to another. First rows, contrary to what you say, seem to be particularly hard to manage: either they blow away with sound or they can't hear some/all instruments clearly. That, i've been told, happens a lot.

Never really heard that,and my brother been mixing for 25plus years profesinally. Plus i've probably scene 50 concerts in the front row and never had a problem with sound.

i completely agree with beelyboy post of course

stonesfrk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Never really heard that,and my brother been mixing
> for 25plus years profesinally. Plus i've probably
> scene 50 concerts in the front row and never had a
> problem with sound.

never had a problem with sound in a stadium?
i already had before Milan 2006
must have something to do with luck, i guess

maumau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> stonesfrk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Never really heard that,and my brother been
> mixing
> > for 25plus years profesinally. Plus i've
> probably
> > scene 50 concerts in the front row and never had
> a
> > problem with sound.
>
> never had a problem with sound in a stadium?
> i already had before Milan 2006
> must have something to do with luck, i guess


I was at Milan too,and your right the sound SUCKED,and i was like 2 nd row but i was off to the side alittle more to the right of Darryl,so i can't really say,but if i was in front of Keiths amps i would exspect it to sound good.

x



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-06 06:53 by Beelyboy.

Beelyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> but you'd have to be in front of the 'main's
> somewhere to hear mick and the 'mix' tho, would u
> not?
> mick ain't amped like a git...or is it good and
> audible up close?...
> chollie too, come to think of it...no?
> i never been really close close...
> i would die to get up close...
> then again, i usually try to migrate to wherever
> the mixer is when i'm at a show of any
> kind...cause they are dialin' it in in the best
> stereo audio they can from right there...hearing
> what's comin' out of the "main" mains...
> i theenk.


When your that close your getting Mick's Monitor's too it's basically what the band is getting. That why i was pretty impressed with onstage seating the sound in Berlin was awesome,not only charlie's drum's echoing through my body for a day after.

Todays PA systems are capable of producing perfect sound in nearly every venue. If they have bad sound it's because a) they haven't the best technicians and b) the band's playing crap.

rknuth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Todays PA systems are capable of producing perfect
> sound in nearly every venue. If they have bad
> sound it's because a) they haven't the best
> technicians and b) the band's playing crap.

i understand crap when i hear it
like SFTD, i think in Milan was crap, basically because of Keith not playing the solos so that all that was left was chuck and charlie
but listening to the boot after i realized that a lot that was played i could not hear. expecially in the beginnning of the show.
why i could not hear mick's voice on JJF and Iorr?
but heard him from Con le mie lacrime on
why no Ron Wood until MR and then crisp and loud till the end of the show?
so what is that?

I'm hoping for the usual great sound at Don Valley tonight.
It's an open athletics stadium with no high stands or balconies. Nothing to produce unpredictable "slap back" that buggers the timing and the mix up.
It's possible that the new high tech sound systems aren't as good as they supposed to be... or have some glitches in them.
They have what are essentially built in digital delay functions which are supposed to help compensate for the timing problems in big enclosed arenas or stadiums.[A bit like the DSP models in home cinema amps... but in reverse.]
I suspect they may be like most other digital sound processing devices. All the measurements tell us they work...but our ears know better !

I don't know how music sounded live in the 70's, my first ever concert was GnR in Paradiso in 1987.

But -the way music sounds nowadays DID change, on record and live. Noways, all newly produced CD's sound harsh, upfront, loud, over compressed and bassy. And this includes multi-million projects by the Stones, U2 and what more. The organic, analog sound of '70's productions is completely gone. It's not only the didgital format of the carrier, but also the digital state of modern studio's. No new album of today sounds like Exile, Harvest, All Things Must Pass or whatever.

Live gigs seem to get louder and louder by the day. 15 years ago your ears would only suffer if you were in front of the speakers. Nowadays your ears start bleeding even at the back. At the Paradiso here in Amsterdam they mix at 115 dB -that's the sound of a fighter jet taking off at 10 feet distance. No wonder you can't hear anything anymore after 10 minutes.

I don't know how it as in the '70's, but personally I find it got worse in the last 15 years.

Mathijs

Mathijs, you're right. Dylan said that too.

Everything today is what I like to call "Digitally Disastered " ;^)

I agree Mathijs. BTW: Try comparing the sound of ABB on CD and LP...

JumpingKentFlash

Spud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everything today is what I like to call "Digitally
> Disastered " ;^)

GOOD ONE!!

Just thought i'd mention to Bianca that I was working at the bar serving drinks at that Elton John show she mentioned in 1984, IT SUCKED

Elton John sucks full stop!!

OK people what you got to understand is that you're all looking @ it wrong. You've been to some gigs where to you the sound was great but to someone else in the Stadium it was crap.

So Bianca dearest when you start spouting off about crap sound= crap band I hope you asked all the other audience members of that supposedly fantastic gig in 1984 what they thought of the sound quality. Where were you sitting / standing and are you sure your memory serves you well because 1984 is a long time ago?

NickB

x



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-06 06:50 by Beelyboy.

maumau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rknuth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Todays PA systems are capable of producing
> perfect
> > sound in nearly every venue. If they have bad
> > sound it's because a) they haven't the best
> > technicians and b) the band's playing crap.
>
> i understand crap when i hear it
> like SFTD, i think in Milan was crap, basically
> because of Keith not playing the solos so that all
> that was left was chuck and charlie
> but listening to the boot after i realized that a
> lot that was played i could not hear. expecially
> in the beginnning of the show.
> why i could not hear mick's voice on JJF and
> Iorr?
> but heard him from Con le mie lacrime on
> why no Ron Wood until MR and then crisp and loud
> till the end of the show?
> so what is that?

It is one of the most stubborn myths in Stonesland.
That they dont play themselves. I dont know what to think.
Its almost as old as the blood transfusion myth.